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GregoryPalamas
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You don’t know much about history. Perhaps you should enroll in my class. That would certainly help you. BTW Have you stopped beating your mother yet?
CDL
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LDNCatholic
Guest
My view of the church is fairly clear actually, having studied it from both sides of the arguement, I don’t turn away from the stains in my own religion. Rather I correct the misguided opinions of others. The Inquisition was not the great big overwhelming evil that people seem to believe. Contemporary research has led to the conclusion that the number of deaths was massively exaggeratted.
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Prayer_Warrior
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Most Catholics open acknowledge the abuses of various people in the Church. However, many of us draw the line when history is falsely presented to us. Saying the Church killed 16 million Native Americans is patently false. If you’re going to discuss history on these forums, I would recommend you study up. Your knowledge of history is seriously flawed.
By the way, if the Catholic Church had not stood up to Muslim aggression during the Crusades, I highly doubt Christianity would have survived. Yes, there were some horrible atrocities committed by Christians during that time. Of course, few are willing to recognize that these Christians were lashing out in response to the atrocities committed against them first. Was it wrong to unleash upon Muslims a dose of their own medicine? Yes, it was against Christian values.
The number killed in the Inquisition is not anywhere near 2 million. During the entire 500 years of Inquisitions about 6,000 people died.
If you want to be taken seriously in these forums, do some serious study. Most Catholics are willing to accept the “wrongs” of the Church. We are not willing to accept false accusations.
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LDNCatholic
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Well said Prayer Warrior!
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juancpath
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I have never beat my mother. But i guess an educated discussion in this forum is out of the question.
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mike_sieber
Guest
Since we’ve gotten a bit off topic, I’d like to challenge those people who come in here and throw around numbers like ‘millions’ of people killed by the church to point us to where you obtained your figures.
Instead of just making pejorative statements, please give documented, historical evidence to back up your claims.
If you’d like to e-mail me privately with where you obtained your numbers regarding the inquisition, I’d be happy to look it over.
Instead of just making pejorative statements, please give documented, historical evidence to back up your claims.
If you’d like to e-mail me privately with where you obtained your numbers regarding the inquisition, I’d be happy to look it over.
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LDNCatholic
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Educated discussion is welcomed. I would ask you to cite some of your sources for your claims of genocide as propagated by the Catholic Church and carried out by the whole of Europe between the years 1000AD and say…1834, when the Spanish Inquisition was effectively abolished.I have never beat my mother. But i guess an educated discussion in this forum is out of the question.
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WanderAimlessly
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Source for your accusation that the Church killed these people?
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GregoryPalamas
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Nor are you ready for an educated discussion. Take the counsel of others to heart. Much can be learned. We know that many of the records were changed by enemies of the Church in order to make the “New Men” of the Enlightenment look like heroes, at least in their own eyes. But we do know that the entire number of people who faced capital punishment as a result even incidentally to the work of the Inquisition is much lower than the numbers of executions occuring in the good old US of A.I have never beat my mother. But i guess an educated discussion in this forum is out of the question.
Please, go do some study. Give us some links and stop throwing around numbers you cannot verify.
You began with a good queston in your OP why not pursue that instead of trying to slander the Church?
CDL
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josethekke
Guest
catholic church has changed its attitude and corrected the teachings in a positive way still more correction is needed in the attitudes of church but this correction process is not with Muslim community they fail to understand what they teaches and what they practice
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juancpath
Guest
Many of the things i have raised in this discussion are subject of debate since i can never be 100% sure the the churche killed 100 million of 100 people … but one thing i have seen with my own eyes. and are actually in museums in Sucre, all the machines of torture that the church used to convert unwilling indians… Furthermorre I was there when they found hundreds of fetus in a Convet’s catacumbs. The church actually performed abortions on unwed females if they agreed to become nuns.
I truly wish you guys had seen it… but the church has done a pretty nice job hidding it.
I truly wish you guys had seen it… but the church has done a pretty nice job hidding it.
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LDNCatholic
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Much evidence to the contrary has been found, especially evidence that the clergy protected the natives. The Church forbade slavery and forced conversion, greedy conquistadors ignored this and sought to convert the natives in an attempt to gain their loyalty and obedience.
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mike_sieber
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I think you’re missing the point that another poster brought up. You’re assuming that everything bad that was ever done by a Catholic was endorsed by the Church. That is not the case.
It’s like a hundred years from now, saying, the Church sexually abused hundreds of kids.
No, the Church didn’t, some bad people did. You’re confusing the two.
As far as the ‘aborted fetuses’ you saw, I wasn’t there so I don’t know exactly what you saw, but how was it determined that these were abortions? And how was it determined that it was the Church that forced it? Where can I find the story about this? It seems like pretty big news that the Church had forced abortions on girls to make them become nuns. I can’t imagine the MSM letting this one get by their radar.
It’s like a hundred years from now, saying, the Church sexually abused hundreds of kids.
No, the Church didn’t, some bad people did. You’re confusing the two.
As far as the ‘aborted fetuses’ you saw, I wasn’t there so I don’t know exactly what you saw, but how was it determined that these were abortions? And how was it determined that it was the Church that forced it? Where can I find the story about this? It seems like pretty big news that the Church had forced abortions on girls to make them become nuns. I can’t imagine the MSM letting this one get by their radar.
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Walking_Home
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In other words juancpath–you started this thread with no real knowledge of what you are talking about and to top it off–jumped from the frying pan into the fire with your alegation of abortions.
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melensdad
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I find this topic very interesting.
But I also find that the “Catholic Church” is being blamed for that actions of everyone and everything Christian or non-Christian without any substantiation.
There is a huge disparity here in logic with the Church being blamed for actions of people who happened to be members of that Church.
For example, it is very clear that the Spanish Inquisitions were not supported by Rome or the Catholic Church, but rather by the monarchy of Spain.
Another example would be blaming the Catholic Church for the actions of the Spanish conquistidors in the whole of the Americas. Yes, the Spanish pledged allegiance to the Catholic Church, but the Church did not rule over Spain.
Another example would be King Olaf of Norway (roughly 995 AD). He was a Catholic convert who practiced “forced conversions” within his nation. It was the King who set forth this policy and enacted it, not the Catholic Church.
So when we look at the radical Muslim terrorists, or when we look at terrorist sponsoring governments (Lybia/Syria/pre-invasion Afghanistan/Iran), do we blame the whole of Islam for the acts of these people and these governments? Fair is fair. If the Catholic Church is to be blamed and held responsible for disease that killed natives, then it only seems reasonable to hold Muhammad himself responsible for the World Trade Center attack, the downing literally hundreds of airplanes around the globe, the bombings in London and Spain, the attack on the Pentagon, etc.
What we have here is a failure to make the logical disconnect.
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juancpath
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I kept trying to go back to the original subject, but i got attacked as soon as i started it… I really dont know why you guys are so jumpy. Are you guys so ashamed of your religion’s past? 
Either way… please… lets go back to the OP: future of the muslim religion
Either way… please… lets go back to the OP: future of the muslim religion
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LDNCatholic
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Ok, last ‘‘off topic’’ post then. I am not ashamed of my religions past as I know it has been painted unfavourably by Anti Catholics, and gullible people such as yourself (no offence intended) believe it and then consider yourself an expert on the subject of the Church and it’s supposed ‘‘dark past’’.I kept trying to go back to the original subject, but i got attacked as soon as i started it… I really dont know why you guys are so jumpy. Are you guys so ashamed of your religion’s past?
Either way… please… lets go back to the OP: future of the muslim religion
Back to the OP then, yes I consider it quite likely that Islam has been painted unfavourably by anti Islamic people, and have no doubt that gullible people in the future will believe these claims and proclaim themselves experts on the ‘‘dark history’’ of Islam.
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melensdad
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I don’t see much evidence that you kept trying to go back to the original topic, but if that is what you wish, I’ll also address that. Further, I don’t see any evidence you were “attacked” but your allegations were clearly corrected and you were asked to provide facts to back up your allegations, as none of your statements were ever backed up with any factual information.I kept trying to go back to the original subject, but i got attacked as soon as i started it… I really dont know why you guys are so jumpy. Are you guys so ashamed of your religion’s past?
Either way… please… lets go back to the OP: future of the muslim religion
So here is your original question:
The only way that Mulsims will be seen that way is by non-Muslims who misunderstand history and completely bastardize the truth so that their understanding of the entire religion of Islam is based on the actions of individuals who act in its name, but are not officially sanctioned by the heads of the religion for the terrorist actions that have taken place when they kill in the name of religion.
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iamrefreshed
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I don’t think so. I believe in 400 years Islam will be in the history books as a religion of the past. Much like our children today read about the Incan sacrifices.
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Godi
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Whoa! What about the Crusades? The Crusades saved Europe. Who started killing whom? Destroyed what civilizations because of God? Surely you jest.:knight1:
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