Future pope resisted defrocking priest

[estesbob]

Okay, so using an age (or age range), tell me who is a post pubescent boy. (Note the suffix - post; I assume that requires that puberty has not just been started but has been completed).

Correct . Per the Jay Report 81% of those abused were male, 77% were between 11 and 17.

 

[pollylodges]

This is only my opinion, but it simply does not matter what age constitues pre or post pubescent.

It also doesn’t matter whether or not there is a calculated media attack on the Vatican or the Papacy.

I truly believe it is a lack of understanding of what the problem is and a refusal to confront it on it’s own terms.

 

[estesbob]

This is only my opinion, but it simply does not matter what age constitues pre or post pubescent.

It also doesn’t matter whether or not there is a calculated media attack on the Vatican or the Papacy.

I truly believe it is a lack of understanding of what the problem is and a refusal to confront it on it’s own terms.

Y9ou can not adress the robem unless you understand what the problem is. The scandla had two components-mostly homosexual abuse of boys followed by a coverup by the Church. The Church has taken steps to adress both of these prblems

 

[anode]

I asked for an age, not a physiologic process. Why do you ‘homosexual rape’ apologists shy away from giving an age? Without that, we can’t even begin a serious conversation.

The age of consent. 18 in most states. Earlier than that, it’s statutory rape. After that, it’s actions between consenting adults.

I suggest using the terms “abuser” or “predator”. Both describe the activities and avoid technicalities, which is what some posters appear to be relying on.

The bishop(s) of the diocese of Oakland CA wanted Kiesle laicized. Apparently the tribunal responsible for this is the CDF, seeing the gravity of what laicization involves. The CDF did not respond. The bishop(s) kept asking. Four years after the first ‘request’, the CDF responds–and two years* later* (apparently) the laicization goes through.

One would think that the CDF, or whoever was in charge of laicization, would have wanted laicization to proceed in a timely fashion, that is, ASAP. Kiesle was a convicted sex abuser, and still is a* registered sex offender* in the state of CA.

The delay appears to be because of the damage to Mother Church, according to Ratzinger’s letter.

 

[Ecoclimber]

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/11/AR2010041101641.html

By Silvia Aloisi
Reuters
Sunday, April 11, 2010; 9:41 AM

ROME (Reuters) - The powerful head of Italy’s bishops, responding to mounting pressure on the Vatican, said on Sunday those in the Church who mishandled, minimized and covered up sexual abuse of children should be dismissed. Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco said in a newspaper interview that pedophilia was a “heinous crime” and even more serious when committed by members of the Church.

“Proven cases of mismanagement, underestimation of the facts, if not outright cover-up, will have to be rigorously prosecuted within and outside the Church and, as has already happened in some cases, will have to result in the removal and dismissal of the people involved.”

 

[seekerz]

Correct . Per the Jay Report 81% of those abused were male, 77% were between 11 and 17.

Still skirting the issue: is an 11 yr old boy by definition post pubescent? At what age (in calendar years) does a boy qualify as post pubescent?

 

[seekerz]

The age of consent. 18 in most states. Earlier than that, it’s statutory rape. After that, it’s actions between consenting adults.

I suggest using the terms “abuser” or “predator”. Both describe the activities and avoid technicalities, which is what some posters appear to be relying on.

The bishop(s) of the diocese of Oakland CA wanted Kiesle laicized. Apparently the tribunal responsible for this is the CDF, seeing the gravity of what laicization involves. The CDF did not respond. The bishop(s) kept asking. Four years after the first ‘request’, the CDF responds–and two years* later* (apparently) the laicization goes through.

One would think that the CDF, or whoever was in charge of laicization, would have wanted laicization to proceed in a timely fashion, that is, ASAP. Kiesle was a convicted sex abuser, and still is a* registered sex offender* in the state of CA.

The delay appears to be because of the damage to Mother Church, according to Ratzinger’s letter.

There are no technicalities involved here that I can see. Only a refusal to acknowledge the obvious: children were abused; mostly male children (off the top of my head I can think of at least one other good reason why they were mostly male; namely: opportunity). The homosexual defense sounds pretty ridiculous to me and those proposing it seem to not even understand the terms they are using.

Based on your use of the age 18, I would ask then: what proportion of victims was under 18? At what age does it stop being pedophilia and become statutory rape?

Edit: Are you aware that the definition of statutory rape specifies non-forcible rape? In other words, the victims were not forced but they were under legal age of consent.

The closer I get to this ‘explanation’ of the crisis, the fishier it smells I’m afraid…

 

[estesbob]

Still skirting the issue: is an 11 yr old boy by definition post pubescent? At what age (in calendar years) does a boy qualify as post pubescent?

It is different for everyone. I am curious as to why you are so admant to dispute the homosexual compnent of the abuse-I quoted directly from the Jay report. It is not just the age-its the fact that it was almost exclusively abuse of males. The majority of the abuse was homosexual rape.

 

[seekerz]

It is different for everyone. I am curious as to why you are so admant to dispute the homosexual compnent of the abuse-I quoted directly from the Jay report. It is not just the age-its the fact that it was almost exclusively abuse of males. The majority of the abuse was homosexual rape.

If it is different for everyone then how do you determine that most of the victims were post pubescent males?

I am curious about why it seems so crucial to make this an issue of homosexual rape if you can’t even define what is the difference between homosexual rape and pedophilia? What does Church law have to say about sexual involvement with minors? What is the definition in Canon law (if there is one) of pedophilia?

The John Jay study as far as I’m aware gave us ages and sexes of the victims. No self respecting statistician can simply conclude based only on ages and sexes of victims that this was perpetrated by people who prefer sex with males. If the perpetrators had more access to teenaged boys than to any other group, then obviously they would constitute the greatest percentage of victims. I have yet to see what in the study accounts for the difference in opportunity to abuse the various age groups.

To me all that this argument does (other than make the Church look foolish) is strengthen the argument some deviants have that sex with adolescent boys is somehow less heinous than sex with other children.

 

[edwest2]

The New York Times has a definite secular bent. Sensationalism does sell papers, especially when things are made to appear ‘out of control.’

catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1825

To some, the Pope is the head of a multi-national corporation with about a billion customers. The usual ways to do harm are to confuse people, discredit the Pope and discredit the Church. This has been going on for a long time.

bishop-accountability.org/news5/2010_03_30_Donohue_GoingFor.htm

Unfortunately, the internet is too often a source of unverified information, opinions stated as if fact, and outright disinformation.

God bless,
Ed

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