Gaining relief from demonic opression

[R_C]

The point is that we are not authorized by the Church to interact with demons. Period. That includes performing certain blessings, addressing demons directly (the word employed by the Church is “disturbing” the demon, which means indeed that we should leave him alone), or offending/insulting demons.

We can and should pray the Lord to deliver us from evil - which we do, it is something that the Lord Himself included in His prayer as one of our basic needs - but to go beyond that is to harm ourselves, as the Apostles tell us in several occasions and as the Church teaches.

Remember that at the supernatural level everything in heaven and earth and under the earth is hierarchical. Everyone has a certain authority that is given by God, and to attempt to break that hierarchy means placing ourselves outside of the protection of our superiors.

Think of it this way: there is a skilled soldier, but the general tells him that his division is not authorized to engage the enemy directly. Now the soldier thinks: “I am a soldier, I have the proper skills, and the weapons. It does not make sense that the general does not let me engage the enemy.” So he runs and starts fighting. Of course, having done so of his choice, nobody will have noticed and thus nobody will be protecting him. It is one man against an army. Now if the enemy attacks and the soldier tells the general or some of his attendants, then the general will tell the soldier to move back with his division, and he will command the appointed fighting division to walk forward and engage the enemy. Spiritual warfare has its name for a reason…

---

“Let not your heart be troubled”

“As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.So therefore, do not be afraid; I will provide for you and your little ones.”

 

[Sonic]

I will add, that to do something the church explicitly states is forbidden is in fact an act of disobedience. That act of disobedience is a sin, and because it is a sin it opens up a person to spiritual attack. That is why a person should never attempt to exorcise demons on their own.

To summarize the words of St. Pio… you cannot fight evil with an evil.

 

[BluesPicker]

I will add, that to do something the church explicitly states is forbidden is in fact an act of disobedience. That act of disobedience is a sin, and because it is a sin it opens up a person to spiritual attack. That is why a person should never attempt to exorcise demons on their own.

To summarize the words of St. Pio… you cannot fight evil with an evil.

The very source material Fr. Ripperger's Spiritual Warfare MP3, particularly  3a & 3b, state that we should use binding prayers and if we don't we let the devil in.

 It is this business of  thinking the Church says we can't  address a demon giving a command to depart in the Name of Christ and  go to the Foot of the Cross,  that is the bother.

  You have not listened to the tapes completely because this rollover and tolerate, don't offend or insult a demon is completely a crock and not what the Church says.

 What is really strange is how many people just make this same error. 

 Frs. Amorth &  Ripperger say the same thing the wording is a little different.

" As for us, we are forbidden from directly addressing what we think be a demon, especially by words such as exorciso te. Jesus told St. Faustina, once she was bothered by some thoughts and plainly ignored them, that He was very satisfied: since she had not replied anything, the adversary had not accomplished anything."

    But that is NOT what Fr. Ripperger said.   Binding prayers directly address an evil spirit.  

  And that RC person don't offend a demon,  well,  I offend them daily.

   This is an objective matter and not subjective in the least bit.  

   Your own source refutes that you cite to support your  position refutes completely what you say.

You are supposed to be responsible for your knowledge of the Faith. And, I am telling you on this you got it wrong. Other than the prohibition of a public rite, a solemn exorcism. Then you apply this to all prayer situations or circumstances.

Father Ripperger even talks about the Economy of Authority.  This you fail to grasp. Then you are surprised at  Fr. Amorth's statements but  Fr. Ripperger says the same in regard to liberation or simple exorcism  which you equate to solemn exorcism.   You equate  temptation, influence and obsession with possession. 

    I am going to give the minute position of  Fr. Ripperger's audio because I can't copy it here.  Then you explain it to me, how to say a binding prayer without directly addressing an evil spirit.   Next he speaks about prayers of liberation in another sense.

  When you understand the both Fr. Amorth's position,  Fr. Ripperger's and all those who hold beliefs consistent with  Church's official position  are basically the same.

BP

 

[R_C]

BluesPicker, I understand your point, but don’t confuse your understandings and interpretations with what the Church says.

I don’t know what Fr. Ripperger wrote, but certainly there is nothing the devil can do to a Christian in a state of grace without the Lord’s consent, and even if we have committed a mortal sin there is only so much the devil can accomplish…

Fr. James Fryar, FSSP in a sermon on spiritual warfare pointed out that canon law forbids the use of binding prayers, and that the use of these prayers is restricted to trained exorcists appointed by the bishops.

Fr. Amorth may be a very respectable exorcist, but the Magisterium stands above his writings.

To conclude, regards to offending demons, I am very sorry that you have taken such a harsh and personal viewpoint on this, because the words and teachings I refer to come straight from the Apostles:

St. Jude:

In the very same way …] heap abuse on celestial beings. But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him with slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them.

St. Peter:

Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not heap abuse on such beings when bringing judgment on them from the Lord. But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand.

Now don’t take these quotes personally, but notice that they are very straightforward on the matter. Do not forget that we are still talking about angels and archangels that are greater than us, that we are fighting against principalities.

Anyways I don’t see the problem: since you are a faithful Catholic obedient to the Church, you should ask your confessor’s opinion on this matter and follow his spiritual direction.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Second, stop being “aware” of the presence of evil, remembering that “to the pure all things are pure”; just plainly ignore any feelings, sounds, thoughts, like you would ignore a noise when walking on the street. You are light, and darkness is only ugly if you look at it.

Stop being aware of the presence of evil??? What?

Be keenly aware of the presence of evil, lest you fall into it’s snare! We cannot be naive about it. We should not fear it.

Everything on a spiritual level works on the divine economy of authority. Exorcists take on special precautions (fasting and praying) to prevent being attacked or harmed.

First, we pray daily and fast regularly. One should definitely fast before praying for deliverance from demons.

There is an economy of authority. Christ the King has authority over all. He has given us the authority, through baptism, to cast out demons in His name with the power of the Holy Spirit. We* are* priests.

The point is that we are not authorized by the Church to interact with demons. Period. That includes performing certain blessings, addressing demons directly (the word employed by the Church is “disturbing” the demon, which means indeed that we should leave him alone), or offending/insulting demons.

We are not authorized to interact with demons? We can’t help it. That’s like saying that we are not authorized to interact with the pack of hungry wolves attacking us.

To summarize the words of St. Pio… you cannot fight evil with an evil.

A house divided cannot stand. One can only fight evil with good.

I don’t know what Fr. Ripperger wrote, but certainly there is nothing the devil can do to a Christian in a state of grace without the Lord’s consent, and even if we have committed a mortal sin there is only so much the devil can accomplish…

The devil and also anyone else cannot do anything unless God permits it. God permits demonic attacks to give us opportunities to work with Him.

 

[Lady_Love]

A major revision of the Discipline on Exorcism

A Comparative Study of the Liturgical Laws
in the 1614 and 1998 Rites of Exorcism
By
Jeffrey S. GROB
A dissertation submitted to the Faculty of Canon Law,
Saint Paul University, Ottawa, Canada, in partial
fulfillment of the requirements for the degree of
Doctor of Canon Law

heartofthefather.com/images/stories/pdfs/grob_doctoral_thesis_pdf-1.pdf

 

[MtnDwellar]

A major revision of the Discipline on Exorcism

A Comparative Study of the Liturgical Laws
in the 1614 and 1998 Rites of Exorcism
By
Jeffrey S. GROB
A dissertation submitted to the Faculty of Canon Law,
Saint Paul University, Ottawa, Canada, in partial
fulfillment of the requirements for the degree of
Doctor of Canon Law

heartofthefather.com/images/stories/pdfs/grob_doctoral_thesis_pdf-1.pdf

Thanks for the link. From page 5 of this document:
*
An exorcism is considered “public” when an authorized person using an approved rite does it in the name of the Church. A “private” exorcism is not bound by the same constraints and may be celebrated by any of the faithful.*

 

[buzzoff1031]

Man, has this turned into something confusing! LOL. Ok, first, I need to know what the church actually teaches. Can I say binding prayers for myself or not. If I can, would this be what is called above a “private exorcism”–in other words, for myself? Either way, are there certain prayers I should be using?

 

[Dorothy]

Yes, the thread can be confusing. I do think that most lay people do not understand the difference between an official exorcism for true possession, and simple prayers of deliverance that priests can use for those who are being harassed or oppressed by the devil without having to ask the bishop for permission to see an exorcist.

There are also prayers that lay people can use for themselves or others. I believe there is a site for that somewhere on the internet.

 

[buzzoff1031]

Yes, the thread can be confusing. I do think that most lay people do not understand the difference between an official exorcism for true possession, and simple prayers of deliverance that priests can use for those who are being harassed or oppressed by the devil without having to ask the bishop for permission to see an exorcist.

There are also prayers that lay people can use for themselves or others. I believe there is a site for that somewhere on the internet.

Any ideas where? LOL.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Man, has this turned into something confusing! LOL. Ok, first, I need to know what the church actually teaches. Can I say binding prayers for myself or not. If I can, would this be what is called above a “private exorcism”–in other words, for myself? Either way, are there certain prayers I should be using?

You may want to start here: catholicwarriors.com/pages/warfare_prayers.htm

 

[buzzoff1031]

You may want to start here: catholicwarriors.com/pages/warfare_prayers.htm

Yeah, I have that page bookmarked actually. Thanks so much though!! Those are great prayers…just didn’t know if they were, you know, ok to use. Does that make sense?

Also, i wanted to ask if the blessings at the end of the article on this page–[spiritdaily.net/blesswatersalt.htm#Prayers for Priests to Bless Sacramentals](http://www.spiritdaily.net/blesswatersalt.htm#Prayers for Priests to Bless Sacramentals)–are legit as well. And, what would be the difference between exorcised water, salt and oil and blessed of the same?

 

[Sonic]

BluesPicker, You seem to be misunderstanding my posts. I’m sorry for that, and I’m really confused as to your contention. I thought I was adding to you posts and not contending against them. I’ll try to go through each of these sections the best I can.

The very source material Fr. Ripperger’s Spiritual Warfare MP3, particularly 3a & 3b, state that we should use binding prayers and if we don’t we let the devil in.

Binding prayers are not “official exorcisms”, and I think that is where you are misunderstanding my posts.

It is this business of thinking the Church says we can’t address a demon giving a command to depart in the Name of Christ and go to the Foot of the Cross, that is the bother.

You are conflagration my post with that of R_C’s post. I did not say that in any of my posts. My post is independent of R_C’s. I was adding to the topic, and not his post. That I think is where you might be confused.

You have not listened to the tapes completely because this rollover and tolerate, don’t offend or insult a demon is completely a crock and not what the Church says.

That’s not fair. Accusing me of not listening to the very source I gave to you isn’t fair. You are wrong for saying this.

Here is from the transcript I’m compiling of the audio file.

3a

19:13

Then there is what’s called a binding prayer… basically what a binding prayer is… is a prayer that’s said… that’s done… in order to bind a demon from performing certain kind of behavior… and so if you look at the binding prayer it says… spirit of… and then there is an N.… you name the thing…

Let’s say for example, you have a kid that’s just constantly back talking to you and it doesn’t matter what you do… you even spank him… it doesn’t work… nothing you do works, right? A remedy you can do… you can say… spirit of back talking… I bind you in the name of Jesus… and it goes on… and I command you to leave… then you name the child… In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

If you say that prayer… very often people will find if they use this binding prayer…

You can also use it for your own temptation… with people who have chronically suffered from temptations all their life… that they fought against and they just didn’t seem to get anywhere… as soon as the temptation occurs… you can say that binding prayer… very often… they’ll notice that it has that immediate effect… and it will be that way the first few times that you use it… then the effect will slowly start to wear off… what that is is that the demons will kind of back up a bit… and then they’ll just be back at you… and they’ll just keep doing it…

And the moral of the story is… I always tell everybody I don’t like that sign you sometimes see in businesses… “Beatings will continue until moral improves” . And that’s what you do, you just keep using that until it wears them down and over the course of time eventually they let loose of it.

Okay, a binding prayer is very affective. i use it all the time.

20:40

Audio file 3b

00:25

God set up an authority structure in the natural lot in nature… even the demons have to obey it… very often what they’ll do is… that this means for example… the father f the household says binding prayers over the people… because of his authority… he actually has the capacity to ward the demons off… if he fails to he can also open the doors… or if he does something evil… he’s the one most principally who opens the door… other people can too… the wife next… and then the children… starting with the oldest on down…

The point being is there is this economy… a divine economy of authority…

St. Thomas makes the observation… he says that if a person acts contrary to this order of authority… he is deprived of the effects of that authority…

3:53

If we have to follow that divinely established structure and if we don’t we become subject… we become subject to demonic influence…

Once again, these are not official exorcisms or acting in the role of an appointed exorcist. These are prayers done within the authority of the family. The father saying protective prayers over his family. I fail to see no contradiction here.

When I said this…

One should never pray directly (in the role of the Exorcist) for those who are afflicted by the devil.

…I meant in the context of an official exorcism. If you look at my original post, you will see that was the context of my post.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9588795&postcount=38

 

[Sonic]

Part 2

And that RC person don’t offend a demon, well, I offend them daily.

This is an objective matter and not subjective in the least bit.

Your own source refutes that you cite to support your position refutes completely what you say.

You are supposed to be responsible for your knowledge of the Faith. And, I am telling you on this you got it wrong. Other than the prohibition of a public rite, a solemn exorcism. Then you apply this to all prayer situations or circumstances.

Father Ripperger even talks about the Economy of Authority.  This you fail to grasp. Then you are surprised at  Fr. Amorth's statements but  Fr. Ripperger says the same in regard to liberation or simple exorcism  which you equate to solemn exorcism.   You equate  temptation, influence and obsession with possession. 

    I am going to give the minute position of  Fr. Ripperger's audio because I can't copy it here.  Then you explain it to me, how to say a binding prayer without directly addressing an evil spirit.   Next he speaks about prayers of liberation in another sense.

  When you understand the both Fr. Amorth's position,  Fr. Ripperger's and all those who hold beliefs consistent with  Church's official position  are basically the same.

BP

Once again, You might be confused in that you are mixing my posts with R_C’s posts. I am not R_C and my posts are independent of his unless I’m am otherwise addressing him. I am really floored as to how you can be so confrontational over something that appears to be a misunderstanding. Why? Perhaps you need to take a break from the internet for a while.

It is unfair to put words in my mouth that are not my own. Please, in the future… make an effort to not confuse my writings with those of another person. It’s not only confusing to me, but it’s confusing to others.

 

[Sonic]

Man, has this turned into something confusing! LOL. Ok, first, I need to know what the church actually teaches. Can I say binding prayers for myself or not. If I can, would this be what is called above a “private exorcism”–in other words, for myself? Either way, are there certain prayers I should be using?

I’m now confused, as well. It’s very hard at times to follow a conversation using text messages.

Buzz, as a I said before… it’s prudent not to rely on the internet. I admit that sometimes I’m wrong, and I appreciate it when people tell me nicely. Unfortunately, some people are not as patient as others and they can be a little contentious. Many times, it seems I’m not even in a conversation with someone at all, and the posts seem so disconnected I often ask how I even got involved in the first place. I’m sure nobody means any harm. Just don’t let the discussions prevent you from getting help from a psychological counselor or priest.

Seek a good priest and spiritual director for your problem in the OP, and try to cross reference anything you hear or say with actual sources. that’s my advice.

 

[buzzoff1031]

I’m now confused, as well. It’s very hard at times to follow a conversation using text messages.

Buzz, as a I said before… it’s prudent not to rely on the internet. I admit that sometimes I’m wrong, and I appreciate it when people tell me nicely. Unfortunately, some people are not as patient as others and they can be a little contentious.

Seek a good priest and spiritual director for your problem in the OP, and try to cross reference anything you hear or say with actual sources.

Heard that.

 

[Sonic]

A major revision of the Discipline on Exorcism

A Comparative Study of the Liturgical Laws
in the 1614 and 1998 Rites of Exorcism
By
Jeffrey S. GROB
A dissertation submitted to the Faculty of Canon Law,
Saint Paul University, Ottawa, Canada, in partial
fulfillment of the requirements for the degree of
Doctor of Canon Law

heartofthefather.com/images/stories/pdfs/grob_doctoral_thesis_pdf-1.pdf

Thank you for the source, Lady Love. I have already ready through portions of it and find it very interesting. There is one thing that bothers me (and call it a personal bias), but I would have preferred the file came from an official church website. Heart of the Father appears to be a protestant ministry. This understandably makes me cautious, but not (and don’t get me wrong) closed minded to the information. You have at least given me something to look for.

 

[Sonic]

Yeah, I have that page bookmarked actually. Thanks so much though!! Those are great prayers…just didn’t know if they were, you know, ok to use. Does that make sense?

Also, i wanted to ask if the blessings at the end of the article on this page–[spiritdaily.net/blesswatersalt.htm#Prayers for Priests to Bless Sacramentals](http://www.spiritdaily.net/blesswatersalt.htm#Prayers for Priests to Bless Sacramentals)–are legit as well. And, what would be the difference between exorcised water, salt and oil and blessed of the same?

Use caution when viewing the Spirit Daily websites (.com - .net - .org). It’s fidelity to the church has been called into question.

catholicculture.org/culture/reviews/view.cfm?recnum=2037

 

[R_C]

@MtnDwellar

What I meant is that awareness of the presence of evil can easily turn into paranoia. We start seeing evil everywhere. Not good. I need not such awareness to avoid falling into it’s snare. An awareness of God’s presence is, instead, my buckler and shield.

We are not priests. We share in the common priesthood, but the Sacrament of the Holy Orders is the seal of the sacramental priesthood. Through this Sacrament we receive proper authority to bless etc. Exorcism is reserved to Bishops, who have the fulness of the Holy Orders, or to priests authorized by the Bishop. Now I don’t know about “binding prayers” or the difference between saying “exorciso te” or other commands addressed directly to demons etc.

@Sonic
I hope you will point out if I say something wrong…I am also learning… For instance my quotes of St. Peter and St. Jude on not offending celestial beings, I hope they are valid arguments.

 

[IanGE]

A major revision of the Discipline on Exorcism

A Comparative Study of the Liturgical Laws
in the 1614 and 1998 Rites of Exorcism
By
Jeffrey S. GROB
A dissertation submitted to the Faculty of Canon Law,
Saint Paul University, Ottawa, Canada, in partial
fulfillment of the requirements for the degree of
Doctor of Canon Law

heartofthefather.com/images/stories/pdfs/grob_doctoral_thesis_pdf-1.pdf

Thank you again, Lady Love, for an enlightening link. Like all Charismatics I am saddened that the church “discourages” us from using the gifts of the Holy Spirit, particularly healing and deliverance (see LL’s link). We often discern (another gift of the Spirit) there is a link between the two and driving out the demon (Mark 16:17) also removes the physical harm imposed by the pest. Most of the time our love for the afflicted one aches as does the Holy Spirit in us that prompts us to act. None of us rely on words and set prayers, understanding that it is the NAME of Jesus used by a believer that drives out demons and heals. Yes it is not a prayer but a COMMAND in Jesus’ Name which MUST be obeyed under Spiritual Law. Often, when someone asks for healing of, say, a back ache, I feel the Lord telling me to lay my hand on the person’s KNEE Yes, Jesus knows what HE is doing!