Galatians Bible Study

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Reformed, I get the feeling that you aren’t getting my argument, so bear with me here…
  • in Galatians we discover that the law is to expose our sinfulness
  • we also find out that the law was that which was delivered to Moses from angels
  • an example of the law in Galatians is circumcision (as you yourself point out)
  • Paul clearly repudiates those who claim that observation of the law as described above brings us closer to God, we need Christ
From the above points it becomes clear that The Law means that which was delivered to Moses with the clearest example being circumcision- hence, special acts of Jewish cultic devotion. How do you get from that to the notion that The Law means anything we could possibly do? That is not clear from the text at all.
 
Reformed, I get the feeling that you aren’t getting my argument, so bear with me here…
  • in Galatians we discover that the law is to expose our sinfulness
  • we also find out that the law was that which was delivered to Moses from angels
  • an example of the law in Galatians is circumcision (as you yourself point out)
  • Paul clearly repudiates those who claim that observation of the law as described above brings us closer to God, we need Christ
From the above points it becomes clear that The Law means that which was delivered to Moses with the clearest example being circumcision- hence, special acts of Jewish cultic devotion. How do you get from that to the notion that The Law means anything we could possibly do? That is not clear from the text at all.
What is the overall theme of the book of Galatians? What was Paul trying to refute and what was Paul trying to defend?
 
What is the overall theme of the book of Galatians? What was Paul trying to refute and what was Paul trying to defend?
Okay, let me give the rundown.

Judaizers have come to the newly formed Christian communities in Galatia. They are convincing gentiles there that they must be circumcized in order to truly follow Christ, probably along with observe the laws of kashrut etc. They are doing this based on the OT, showing these young believers all of the special commandments the chosen people of God must obey. They want to know why Paul wouldn’t tell them such important facts!

Paul replies and lets them know that he does in fact have authority straight from God. He didn’t get derivative knowledge from the apostles, no, his knowledge and authority is pure. He did later confirm what he learned with the established apostles. Therefore, he can be trusted. He lets them know that the Law, that mere Law that Moses got from angels has been overturned by Christ, the gospel he received straight from God. To circumcise the flesh is to deny Christ and grace. Gentiles may become God’s people through and because of Christ, apart from The Law (Moses/circumcision, all of those rules by which one had to become a Jew before Christ). If people were to join God’s people through the old ways, Moses’ way, then what is the point of Christ?

This is the whole question of Galatians: how does one become approved by God? Through Moses’ ways, ie ciricumcision, or through Christ and therefore grace?

That is the central theme and question of Galatians. You’re trying to jump the gun and go beyond the text in expanding the understanding of the law as I described above to mean ANY good work. That understanding is not explicit in the text.
 
Quick question. Are you familar with the “New Perspective on Paul” and the ecumenical agenda behind it? Here is a link to the issues and controversy behind it. I think it might be related to our Bible Study. Please take the time and study the issues.

monergism.com/directory/search.php?action=search_links_simple&search_kind=and&phrase=new+perspective+on+paul
Reformed,

Sure, I’ll take a look at it. I think I know what it is.

Nonetheless, in the meantime, in this particular discussion about Galatians, what in particular do you object to-- based on what is actually in Galatians?
 
Reformed,

Sure, I’ll take a look at it. I think I know what it is.

Nonetheless, in the meantime, in this particular discussion about Galatians, what in particular do you object to-- based on what is actually in Galatians?
I just looked at your profile. I guess you are neither Protestant nor Roman Catholic. What is your position on justification by faith alone? We all view Scripture with our own lenses.
 
I just looked at your profile. I guess you are neither Protestant nor Roman Catholic. What is your position on justification by faith alone? We all view Scripture with our own lenses.
There is truth to that, but I was hoping for a more specific critique of my exegesis.
 
Do you have an entry on the New Paul topic which is text? I hate sitting through audio files.
 
Do you have an entry on the New Paul topic which is text? I hate sitting through audio files.
Let’s please get off the topic of “The New Perspective on Paul” and get back to the book of Galatians chapter 2. Please see post 18 for my last thoughts, I think?
 
Be wary of people who preach a gospel that contrary to the one in the Bible. A few comes to mind in this category - Mohammad, John Smith and the so-called reformers. Excuse me for being blunt but I cannot what else that these verses could mean.
To be fair, Reuben, all the Protestants believe that their gospel comes from the Bible. That is exactly the problem. Paul was saying here that the Galatians should not depart from the Gospel that was delivered to them (Apostolic). Indeed, the Scripture does reflect this Apostolic Gospel, but when it is separated from the sacred tradition that produced it, all sorts of error results.
 
That’s a good point. Both official Roman Catholic dogma in the Council of Trent and historic Protestant Confessions of Faith will reference Galatians chapter 1 and a different gospel to document their positions. If that’s true, then can we agree that the official Roman Catholic gospel is mutually exclusive from the gospel proclaimed by the Protestant Reformers?

The Catholic gospel is not “Roman”, Reformed.

We can agree that there are some critical points upon which the Protestant Confessions departed from Apostolic Teaching, yes.

I do not think, as a whole, they are “mutually exclusive”. Most of the Reformers retained the vast majority of the Apostolic Teachings. We see this retention being lost in the splintered stepchildren of the Reformers, the further and further they move away from the Apostolic Teaching.
Reformed;4343837:
Can we agree that the Protestant Reformation was caused by an essential difference of the gospel that we currently proclaim and put our hope in?
Not a bit. I think if you were to give an honest read of Catholic Teaching, that you would not propose such nonsense. The Reformation was a rebellion against the authority appointed by Christ. The doctrinal differences emerged as a method of rationalizing that rebellion.
Can we also agree that the heart of the gospel defined by justification is the essential division of the Reformation and today as well?
No, Catholics and Protestants all agree that we are justified by grace, through faith.

What you have been taught about the Catholic faith is wrong.
What is the purpose of the law according to Paul in the book of Galatians? I believe the answer is found in Galatians chapter 2 or 3.

The purpose of the law is to reveal our sin, showing our great need for a savior; therefore, the main purpose of the law for the elect of God is **to drive us **to Jesus Christ.

To the non-elect, the purpose of the law is different for those who continue to love the darkness and run from the light. But, let’s stick with the book of Galatians and what Paul reveals in it in regards to the law.
You use this word often. I think if you are willing to explore the scriptures, you will find that it is always evil and demonic forces that “drive”. The HS always “leads”. This is what makes your characterization of your 'bible studies" here at CAF suspicious. YOu claim you want them to “drive”.
Do you disagree that the purpose of the law (we can define law later, but look at the contents first) in Galatians is to expose our sin and are great need of a savior?
Yes
Do you agree that the law drives us to Jesus Christ?
No. The HS always leads. He even leads through the law, which is an instrument of death.
 
Protestants tend to see that Catholics are trying to be justified by works of the law.
I agree. This is one of the most common misunderstandings of the Catholic faith. It seems to be propogated on the website to which you link. How is it for you to find out that you have been wrongly taught about Catholicism, and that you are promoting misinformation? Previously, you were bearing false witness against your neighbor in ignorance. Now that you know better you are doing it deliberately. :eek:
It is how Protestants tend to understand the Catholics view of salvation, since Roman Catholic theology rejects the Protestants view of justification by faith alone through imputation.
It is possible to believe one is saved by grace, through faith, and not of works, yet still reject the heresy of faith along and imputation.
Code:
Please share why you think the highlighted red text does not apply to Roman Catholic theology?
The highliighted text IS Catholic theology. The whole NT was written by, for, and about Catholics. Everything in it is Catholic.
Code:
Remember, the purpose of the law in Galatians is to show our sinfulness; therfore revealing our need for a savior.
Yes, we are in agreement on this point. Just not the 'drive" part. 😉
Mormon Christians and JW believers are trying to do the same thing that Catholics appear to do
I don’t think that Mormons can really be considered Christians, given that they have departed from the doctrine of the Trinity.

I see that you continue to lump Catholics in with non-Christian cults. I hope that your visit with us here, however brief it may be, will lead you to the realization that Catholicism is not what you have been taught.
I don’t even think the book of James proclaims the gospel of God’s grace.
I find this statement appalling. :eek:

It is a hint as to how much you have truncated the gospel.
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Reformed:
 
From what I understand, Luther would rather have set aside the whole gospel of James for some of the very same reasons 😉

So…my question, reformed is this.

You said earlier that you felt my insight was truly from God because I was sounding protestant.

But if I’m sounding protestant, wouldn’t that infer my insight was coming straight from Luther?

I think what you are beginning to catch glimpses of, (though you are probably trying to keep from looking), is that much of what the protestant faith professes, IS what the catholic church believes… You will find nothing by searching the scriptures which contradicts the catholic faith, nor will you find anything in the catholic faith which contradicts the scriptures!

Please, continue to seek out these similarities! You are starting down a path that is of GOD… not Luther, not reformed, not ashleybelle, not guanophor or anyone else! It is amazing what He can do with our minds and hearts when we OPEN our eyes past the notions we have blinded ourselves unwittingly with!

I was protestant most of my life. I was faithful, and have always strived to follow Christ. God had to work pretty darn hard to lift that protestant veil from my eyes, so that I could continue seeking Him. If I begin pulling it back down, it will not be of God’s doing.
 
I find that more comments are made about things that are not related to the Scriptures that we are on. Here is the Scriptures again. Would anybody else like to comment on Chapter 1 and 2 before we move on?

Galatians 1-2

No Other Gospel
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

10 For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant [2] of Christ.

Paul Called by God
11 For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel. [3] 12 For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ. 13 For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it. 14 And I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, [4] and who called me by his grace, 16 was pleased to reveal his Son to [5] me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone; [6] 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.

18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days. 19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother. 20 (In what I am writing to you, before God, I do not lie!) 21 Then I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia. 22 And I was still unknown in person to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. 23 They only were hearing it said, “He who used to persecute us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” 24 And they glorified God because of me.

Paul Accepted by the Apostles
2:1 Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along with me. 2 I went up because of a revelation and set before them (though privately before those who seemed influential) the gospel that I proclaim among the Gentiles, in order to make sure I was not running or had not run in vain. 3 But even Titus, who was with me, was not forced to be circumcised, though he was a Greek. 4 Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery— 5 to them we did not yield in submission even for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you. 6 And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)—those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me. 7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), 9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10 Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.

Paul Opposes Peter
11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. 13 And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

Justified by Faith
15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16 yet we know that a person is not justified [7] by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

17 But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness [8] were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
 
“Bible Thumping.”

Christian 1: “Here are the Scriptures, you need to read the Bible to understand them.”

Christian 2: “I agree! After reading them, here is what I discovered, and here are my questions…”

Christian 1: “You must not have really read the Bible or you wouldn’t have those questions. Read the Bible.” thump

Christian 2: “Wow really? Ok let me read it again… Nope…still have the same questions.”

Christian 1: “Those don’t have anything to do with the scripture at hand. Read the Bible again!” thump

Christian 2: Ok I read it…and I wonder…

Christian 1: Nope, read it again. thump

Christian 2: “I read it…what about this passage?”

Christian 1: “READ THE BIBLE!” THUMP

… do you see where this Bible study is going? “Christian 1” may start to feel so dizzy and confused from being hit over the head with the Bible, that they will finally see the Bible in the distorted way Christian 1 is asking them to.
 
“Bible Thumping.”

Christian 1: “Here are the Scriptures, you need to read the Bible to understand them.”

Christian 2: “I agree! After reading them, here is what I discovered, and here are my questions…”

Christian 1: “You must not have really read the Bible or you wouldn’t have those questions. Read the Bible.” thump

Christian 2: “Wow really? Ok let me read it again… Nope…still have the same questions.”

Christian 1: “Those don’t have anything to do with the scripture at hand. Read the Bible again!” thump

Christian 2: Ok I read it…and I wonder…

Christian 1: Nope, read it again. thump

Christian 2: “I read it…what about this passage?”

Christian 1: “READ THE BIBLE!” THUMP

… do you see where this Bible study is going? “Christian 1” may start to feel so dizzy and confused from being hit over the head with the Bible, that they will finally see the Bible in the distorted way Christian 1 is asking them to.
Do you ever try to comment of the Scriptures? I have yet to see you even attempt to interpert the Scriptures that we are trying to study.

2 Tim 2

A Worker Approved by God

14 Remind them of these things, and charge them before God [1] not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, [2] a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. 16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, 17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some. 19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”
 
Do you ever try to comment of the Scriptures? I have yet to see you even attempt to interpert the Scriptures that we are trying to study.
That is the difference though… When I read scripture, I am not trying to reach my own interpretations of it. If I post an intepretation, it would not be "according to ashleybelle, " It would be “according to ashleybelle’s understanding of her church and faith…” I’m pretty sure the Bible speciffically asks us not to rely on our own understanding. What I CAN do when I read the scriptures, is try to apply their meanings to my own life…which I have done repeatedly on these threads:)

The question is not “what is the interpretation of this passage…” But “what has the church understood this passage to mean, and how can I apply that to my life?”

Unless you believe that the truth is open to interpretation?
 
That is the difference though… When I read scripture, I am not trying to reach my own interpretations of it. If I post an intepretation, it would not be "according to ashleybelle, " It would be “according to ashleybelle’s understanding of her church and faith…” I’m pretty sure the Bible speciffically asks us not to rely on our own understanding. What I CAN do when I read the scriptures, is try to apply their meanings to my own life…which I have done repeatedly on these threads:)

The question is not “what is the interpretation of this passage…” But “what has the church understood this passage to mean, and how can I apply that to my life?”

Unless you believe that the truth is open to interpretation?
The title of the thread is “Galatians Bible Study”. You stated earlier that you were not going to participate in the Bible Studies. What is your true motive to hang out on the Bible Study threads? I wish that you would either participate or not distract or derail the Bible Study. You can always start a thread that interest you.
 
The title of the thread is “Galatians Bible Study”. You stated earlier that you were not going to participate in the Bible Studies. What is your true motive to hang out on the Bible Study threads? I wish that you would either participate or not distract or derail the Bible Study. You can always start a thread that interest you.
I might ask the same of you. What is YOUR motive for these Bible study threads? Because it seems to me you have made very clear.

But the scriptures are dear to me, as they are to all catholics. And I love to study them, to learn their meanings, and to apply them to my life, and most of all to share them:)

So…I will participate, but you are not going to like “my” interpretations. And when you disagree with them, you will (and have) simply ask me to “read it again.” Or better yet, “read about the reformation again…” Because understanding the reformation truly reveals the meaning of scripture…👍
 
Galatians 1-2

No Other Gospel
6** I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.**

10 For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant [2] of Christ.

Paul Called by God
11 For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel. [3] 12 For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ. 13 For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it. 14 And I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, [4] and who called me by his grace, 16 was pleased to reveal his Son to [5] me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone; [6] 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.

18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days. 19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother. 20 (In what I am writing to you, before God, I do not lie!) 21 Then I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia. 22 And I was still unknown in person to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. 23 They only were hearing it said, “He who used to persecute us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” 24 And they glorified God because of me.

Paul Accepted by the Apostles
2:1 Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along with me. 2 I went up because of a revelation and set before them (though privately before those who seemed influential) the gospel that I proclaim among the Gentiles, in order to make sure I was not running or had not run in vain. 3 But even Titus, who was with me, was not forced to be circumcised, though he was a Greek. 4 Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery— 5 to them we did not yield in submission even for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you. 6 And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)—those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me. 7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), 9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10 Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.

Paul Opposes Peter
11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. 13 And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

Justified by Faith
15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16 yet we know that a person is not justified [7] by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

17 But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness [8] were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
In this first part, I believe he is warning us of other gospels. He is telling us to hold to the apostolic teachings that have been handed down to us. Anything that is not handed to us through this line of succession is “of man.” This is why I feel that the “5 solas” and “personal interpretation of scripture” are truly man-made traditions, not of God.

I completely agree with all of this passage…especially the second bolded part. It is NOT works of the law which save us:)
 
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