Gallup: 82% of Catholics say contraception is ‘morally acceptable’

[rotlex]

I won’t “judge” you. And I am a sinner, too. But you don’t agree with the Church’s teaching on contraception…do you think you’re a cafeteria catholic?

I used to disagree with the Church’s teaching on contraception, but after much research, prayer, and eventual repentance, I’m 100% sure that I was wrong.

God bless,
Bryan

Didn’t mean to say I thought anyone was personally judging me, just mentioning it seems to happen.

In regards to your questions.

1. I do not consider myself a cafeteria Catholic at all. In my eyes, and most I know, I’m pretty devout. If I say so myself, more so, than well, almost anyone I associate with.
2. I have prayed much about this issue over the years. Reading, thinking, praying, discerning etc.etc. etc. I’ll say it here, and probably get railed over it in some random private message, but I think the Church is wrong. So much so, that I am considering leaving it in favor of moving to an Orthodox Church. While they do not 100% condone contraception, they DO, through speaking with a spiritual father, allow it, and understand it, in cases where a couple has been open to life, and have prayerfully considered their situation for different reasons.

 

[manalive77]

this pole is absurd. first of all they certainly did not include me in this poll and any real catholic is against contraception. furthermore i agree this is just a silly statistic put out there by democrats to steer us away from the fact that they have run the economy into the ground. Out with Obama and all his life hating liberals

 

[irishpatrick]

You know, it’s funny. Your list is interesting to me. I for one, and most that I associate with at my parish, DO all those things you list above. I openly speak of things such as being pro life, anti “gay marriage”, pre-marital sex being sinful etc. etc. I go to confession weekly, or at least monthly. I abstain on Friday’s, and never miss mass, even when on vacation!

With all that said, I guess, in the eyes of many in this thread, I’m still a “cafeteria Catholic”. Why? Because I do NOT believe that using a non abortificant type of contraception within the confines of marriage is either wrong or sinful. But then again, I guess all those that consider me, and my kind, cafeteria Catholics for believing this, do not disagree with anything the Church teaches. Never sin, and have no problems judging and condemning those that don’t adhere to their standards. Nice for them…

I do not think you are a Cafeteria Catholic, yet I do wonder why you think you know more than Jesus’ Church.

 

[CaptFun]

Matthew 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many.** 14 How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few. – Jesus Christ*

• (on the** consequences** of what people “say are morally acceptable” among other things) < IMO this applies to this thread, the notion of popularity of a sin vitiating the authority of the Church, and in general an obvious Divine recommendation to be one of the FEW in matters of morality.

Luke 18:8 I tell you, he will see to it that justice is done for them speedily. But when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?" <Jesus Christ again.

To keep from the sin of pride myself perhaps its best to post the immediately following verses (because even if we consider OURSELVES one of the few, God sees the heart)

Luke 18:9 He then addressed this parable** to those who were convinced of their own righteousness and despised everyone else.** 10

"Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, ‘O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity - greedy, dishonest, adulterous - or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.’

13 But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, ‘O God, be merciful to me a sinner.’

14 I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted."

 

[Eliz_Hansen]

One can make statistics say anything they want. However, the fact is that MANY Roman Catholics favor and use birth control. They have been swayed by incremental, secular liberalism. Did God hand out birth control pills to Adam and Eve? No, He said to be fruitful and multiply. Before Adam and Eve sinned in the garden, was there anything separating them from living intimately with God Who created and loved them so dearly? No. That is what God wants for us: to live a life in which NOTHING separates us from Him, His will, His love, His graces, His mercies, and all the consolations and wisdom He offers to us. To use birth control is to imitate satan in saying to God, “I will not.” It is to radically, boldy, adamantly defy God. Now, if a woman is very ill, or there are extenuating circumstances, or if the husband is unable or ill…keeping him from bearing children, that is a different situation that has to be handled wisely, with prayer, and in the proper Spirit. But, to use birth control defiantly against God because the rest of the world is doing it, is a deplorable sin. We must pray against this culture of death…abortion, euthanasia, birth control, drugs, recreational sex, alcoholism, abuse of children and spouses, murder and violence. God help us to see things in Your light, to think the way You do, and to obey You in all we think and do.

 

[JimG]

It may be that some (many?) Catholics have consciously decided that the Church is and has been wrong about the morality of contraception all along.

If they decide that, they must recognize the meaning of that decision. It means:

–The Catholic Church has been wrong about contraception for 2,000 years.
–The Protestant churches have been wrong about contraception for 400 years, only getting it right after 1930. From the 1500’s to 1930 they all had the same doctrine as the Catholic Church.

–And reviewing the social detritus that has followed the widespread acceptance of contraception–disintegration of marriage, rampant divorce, rampant fornication, unwed mothers, fatherless families, one million abortions per year–they will also have to conclude that the demonstrated effects of contraception have been, gosh, not that bad?

Mary Eberstadt’s book provides a survey of the resutls of the contraceptive culture in her book.

 

[CaptFun]

Yes, and the SCOTUS also ruled 8-1 that the mandatory sterilization of the mentally handicapped was “morally acceptable” in Buck v. Bell (1927). Rather fortunate personal adherence to the Church’s authoritative teaching on artificial contraception cannot be subject to majority vote à la the infamous Seventh Lambeth Conference! G. K. Chesterton hit the nail on the head: “Right is right, even if nobody does it. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong about it” (Illustrated London News 11 May 1907).

1-2-3

1. I’d never heard of that SCOTUS ruling, and a bit before the Nazis were in power to do similar things … and worse of course. Thank you.
2. I HAD heard of that Lambeth Conference, and the general principle of majority rule in matters spiritual can lead to the lunatics running the asylum. In some Protestant churches a pastor can be voted out of his job. Imagine that happening to St. Paul after one of his instructive epistles? And the notion that lay Catholics can change established DOCTRINE by numbers is a secular one, even if it seems to be an ever-more-repeated idea.

Thank you again.

1. AND you win the triple crown for polishing off your post with that hard-hitting Chesterton quote. Bravissimo! I actually walked away from a read smarter this time.

 

[rotlex]

I do not think you are a Cafeteria Catholic, yet I do wonder why you think you know more than Jesus’ Church.

Honestly? Remembering I am human again; It is because while I DO believe it is the Church that Christ himself started, and the one true Church, I also believe it is run by men. Men who have made many, many errors over the years, not the least of which have been sexually related. I’ll leave it at that, so as not to offend anyone, or sound to judgmental myself! (God only knows I can go that way all too easily)!

 

[bscastro]

Matthew 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many.** 14 How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few. – Jesus Christ*

• (on the** consequences** of what people “say are morally acceptable” among other things) < IMO this applies to this thread, the notion of popularity of a sin vitiating the authority of the Church, and in general an obvious Divine recommendation to be one of the FEW in matters of morality.

Luke 18:8 I tell you, he will see to it that justice is done for them speedily. But when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?" <Jesus Christ again.

To keep from the sin of pride myself perhaps its best to post the immediately following verses (because even if we consider OURSELVES one of the few, God sees the heart)

Luke 18:9 He then addressed this parable** to those who were convinced of their own righteousness and despised everyone else.** 10

"Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, ‘O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity - greedy, dishonest, adulterous - or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.’

13 But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, ‘O God, be merciful to me a sinner.’

14 I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted."

I agree with this. As I said in another post, I’m no longer trying to “second guess” the Church. If I have difficulty with a teaching, I will assume it is true while I try to understand why - not the other way around.

Some people say I’m a conformist - and I want to be if that means conforming to the will of God. As John the Baptist said, "He must increase, but I must decrease."
God bless,
Bryan

 

[CaptFun]

I agree with this. As I said in another post, I’m no longer trying to “second guess” the Church. If I have difficulty with a teaching, I will assume it is true while I try to understand why - not the other way around.

This is very wise. It puts me in mind of Our Blessed Mother in Luke 2:50

But**** they did not understand ****what he said to them. 51 He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was obedient to them; and his mother kept all these things in her heart.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Honestly? Remembering I am human again; It is because while I DO believe it is the Church that Christ himself started, and the one true Church, I also believe it is run by men. Men who have made many, many errors over the years, not the least of which have been sexually related. I’ll leave it at that, so as not to offend anyone, or sound to judgmental myself! (God only knows I can go that way all too easily)!

The issue is that you have decided on your own accord that the Church is, and always has been, wrong about certain things. Essentially, you have placed yourself as the sole authority on morality. I don’t understand this rationale, because people simply decide for themselves they disagree with a Church teaching, so the Church must be wrong, not them.

 

[CaptFun]

Some people say I’m a conformist - and I want to be if that means conforming to the will of God. As John the Baptist said, "He must increase, but I must decrease."
God bless,
Bryan

Well put … and with this affirmation from scripture:

Acts 5:29 But Peter and the apostles said in reply, “We must obey God rather than men.”

Obeying God through hearing the Church deputized to teach in His name and power is seen through …

Luke 10:16 Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me."

17 The seventy (-two) returned rejoicing, and said, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us because of your name.”

18 Jesus said, "I have observed Satan fall like lightning from the sky.

19 Behold, I have given you the power ‘to tread upon serpents’ and scorpions and upon the full force of the enemy and nothing will harm you.

– and other commissioning/empowering/sending scriptures too.

If the 72 had taken an opinion poll - it would look like 100% for obedience over dissension from the above context.

 

[vsedriver]

I absolutely believe that number. I can’t tell you how many women, from young to quite elderly, have quietly whispered to me their big confession that when they were struggling to feed and clothe their family, they resorted to contraception. These are mostly very, very devout women who all felt terrible about their decision and ALL confessed to a priest. And every priest, from East to West coast, old school to young, quietly assured them that it was OK.

Dozens of women. Dozens of priests. Every one of them accepted the Church’s teaching in their heart but…

they didn’t trust God enough to let him be in charge of their lives.

 

[Non_sum_dignus]

John 6:60

John 6:68

Human nature never changes. We overcome it by accepting Jesus on his terms (which happen to include obedience to his Church).

 

[Tigg]

You know, it’s funny. Your list is interesting to me. I for one, and most that I associate with at my parish, DO all those things you list above. I openly speak of things such as being pro life, anti “gay marriage”, pre-marital sex being sinful etc. etc. I go to confession weekly, or at least monthly. I abstain on Friday’s, and never miss mass, even when on vacation!

With all that said, I guess, in the eyes of many in this thread, I’m still a “cafeteria Catholic”. Why? **Because I do NOT believe **that using a non abortificant type of contraception within the confines of marriage is either wrong or sinful. But then again, I guess all those that consider me, and my kind, cafeteria Catholics for believing this, do not disagree with anything the Church teaches. Never sin, and have no problems judging and condemning those that don’t adhere to their standards. Nice for them…

Enter moral relativism, or my subjective truth trumps the revelation of God. God as Creator? No problem - I’ll just tie His hands and stymie His Divine Plan with contraceptives, even though I claim to be “Pro-Life??”

I have prayed much about this issue over the years. Reading, thinking, praying, discerning etc.etc. etc. I’ll say it here, and probably get railed over it in some random private message, but I think the Church is wrong.

I wonder if sometimes submission of mind and will and absolute trust and surrender to Christ are the only things we can do.

 

[Tigg]

The Evil of Contraception by Dr. Brenner, a Catholic biblical scholar:

realcatholictv.com/contraception/

If the 82% is realistic, and I believe it is, we need to be understanding of those Catholics who grew up with the heresy of the 60’s and 70’s - with the Winnipeg statement and the terrible error that was promulgated. How many more generations will it take to reverse that? As Dr. Brenner says, the new evangelization cannot take place until the Church turns again to HV.

 

[bscastro]

When I was young, my uncle used to always criticize our local professional football team. My cousin would say to me, “Looks like someone wants to apply to be the new coach!”

It seems like a bunch of cafeteria Catholics want to apply to be the new Pope!

I only want to do what is pleasing to God, including obeying His Church. I screw it up when I try to improvise on my own!

God bless,
Bryan

 

[rotlex]

Enter moral relativism, or my subjective truth trumps the revelation of God. God as Creator? No problem - I’ll just tie His hands and stymie His Divine Plan with contraceptives, even though I claim to be “Pro-Life??”

I wonder if sometimes submission of mind and will and absolute trust and surrender to Christ are the only things we can do.

I don’t believe that my “subjective truth” trumps the revelation of God at all. However, I put my faith more in God, than in man. Frankly, with some of the decisions the “men” of the Church have made over the years, I’m questioning things more and more. (Particularly on the sexual side of things). Perhaps it is time to reconsider my faith, and my belief that the Catholic Church is truly the moral authority on all things…

 

[bscastro]

I don’t believe that my “subjective truth” trumps the revelation of God at all. However, I put my faith more in God, than in man. Frankly, with some of the decisions the “men” of the Church have made over the years, I’m questioning things more and more. (Particularly on the sexual side of things). Perhaps it is time to reconsider my faith, and my belief that the Catholic Church is truly the moral authority on all things…

You keep bringing up the decisions of the “men” of the Church. Have you read the reasoning behind the sexual morality teachings of the Church?

Jesus told Peter to watch His sheep and shepherd his flock. The Popes are Peter’s successors. God the Holy Spirit has guided the popes through the years, and we are to obey the moral teachings of the Church.

You’re being swayed by the arguments of the secular world and believing their hype about the “men” of the Church. Similarly, these are the same arguments of Protestant churches, but the teachings have been the same for 2,000 years. They’re not up to you (or me) to change or add or subtract from.

Put God first in your life! That means sexual life as well as other things. Contraception puts you first, and puts God in the backseat. God doesn’t like being in the back seat, nor should He be put there by anyone.

God bless you. I am praying for you.

Yours in Christ,
Bryan

 

[rotlex]

You keep bringing up the decisions of the “men” of the Church. Have you read the reasoning behind the sexual morality teachings of the Church?

Jesus told Peter to watch His sheep and shepherd his flock. The Popes are Peter’s successors. God the Holy Spirit has guided the popes through the years, and we are to obey the moral teachings of the Church.

You’re being swayed by the arguments of the secular world and believing their hype about the “men” of the Church. Similarly, these are the same arguments of Protestant churches, but the teachings have been the same for 2,000 years. They’re not up to you (or me) to change or add or subtract from.

Put God first in your life! That means sexual life as well as other things. Contraception puts you first, and puts God in the backseat. God doesn’t like being in the back seat, nor should He be put there by anyone.

God bless you. I am praying for you.

Yours in Christ,
Bryan

I appreciate your concerns, really. Yes, I have read the reasoning behind the teachings we are speaking of. They make no sense when discussing within the context of marriage. They are “teachings” being layed down, again, I hate to say it, by man.

Yes, Christ gave the keys to the kingdom to Peter. I believe that. I believe the early church meant well, and those men were truly great. However, come forward through the years. Things change. The people in charge change. They are not of the same fabric that those initial apostles were. I know, sore subject, but just look at the recent, oh heck, last few dozen or so years of “cover ups” regarding sexual issues within this very fabric of “great men” themselves. (Men who mind you that aren’t married, and is most cases, have probably never HAD a relationship with a woman).

God IS first in my life, not those with an agenda of their own, and I don’t believe he will sway me wrong when he answers me in prayer.

Sorry. I’ll go with gut feeling on certain things, but I do appreciate the prayers.

God Bless,