Gallup Poll: U.S. Catholic Hispanic population becoming less religious and shrinking

[LisaA]

We can assume that this is not the problem for Hispanic Catholics.
Catholic churches I know have made conscious decisions not to accommodate Hispanics. Some don’t have or don’t want to get the means to pray with them in Spanish. One I know simply said, “We don’t want those people in our church.”

Well in all fairness, this IS America and we speak English as a rule.

If you are talking about a large Parish with a large Latino population, then I would agree that not accommodating Spanish speaking parishioners is very unfortunate because it appears to be racially motivated.

OTOH our Parish is small and while we have Latinos we also have a large Vietnamese population. Should we offer Masses in Spanish and Vietnamese? Honestly our Priest and staff are already overloaded. We do have a Hispanic outreach and one staff member is fluent in Spanish. We also have special events in Spanish such as a Mass for Our Lady of Guadalupe. The large Parishes DO have Spanish Masses and a very structured Hispanic outreach. Parts of the state that have very large Spanish speaking populations (rural and agricultural) have more Masses in Spanish than English. Further the Archbishop has been very concerned that Priests assigned to those Parishes be fluent if not native Spanish speakers.

Your inference that if Catholic parishes “don’t want to accommodate” Hispanics it’s because of bigotry or bias, is not necessarily a reflection of reality.

Lisa

 

[Orangebookbag]

It’s insane that we aren’t doing more to evangelize, re-evangelize, catechize and uplift the Hispanic population in this country

 

[Elizabeth502]

I challenge anyone on this thread to come up with hard numerical comparisons between the language-friendliness of the American Catholic Church and that of any other Catholic region in the world. Here, the accommodation is somewhere between generous and extreme. IOW, if there is as much as a 20% ethnic population in a parish (including both primary English speakers and primary non-English speakers of that ethnicity), there is invariably a non-English Mass once/day, and sometimes 2 of those on Sundays. That includes not just Spanish Masses, but Vietnamese, Portuguese, and much more. Again, I am not even talking about a 50+% in the parish. At one of the parishes near me, the priest often asks at Mass, “How many hear speak Spanish?” I’ve watched as 25% of the congregants raise their hands, while 75% raise their hands as speaking English. His response after seeing those proportions? He then delivers one of the readings strictly in Spanish (not translated additionally into English), gives a short homily in English and a very long homily in Spanish.

This is called Bending Over Backwards. You’re not going to find this in Canada, in Europe, in Asia, Africa, or Latin America.

So please stop with the assumption that the American Catholic Church is simply not language-friendly enough, and that “therefore” the Hispanic community is leaving the Roman Church. Nonsense. We have never been as accommodating as today.

 

[ProVobis]

So please stop with the assumption that the American Catholic Church is simply not language-friendly enough, and that “therefore” the Hispanic community is leaving the Roman Church. Nonsense. We have never been as accommodating as today.

I would say the priests and bishops are accommodating. From my own experiences, Anglophone churchgoers are less than accepting of sitting side-by-side with non-English speakers. Even a few years of English, and many are bilingual, isn’t good enough for the Anglos. OTOH, I attend Spanish Masses and I find the atmosphere most friendly and devout. And FWIW, I see some of them coming out to the Latin Mass as well.

 

[LisaA]

I would say the priests and bishops are accommodating. From my own experiences, Anglophone churchgoers are less than accepting of sitting side-by-side with non-English speakers. Even a few years of English, and many are bilingual, isn’t good enough for the Anglos. OTOH, I attend Spanish Masses and I find the atmosphere most friendly and devout. And FWIW, I see some of them coming out to the Latin Mass as well.

Truly…people see Hispanics walking down the aisle and shrink away or move? Really?This whole theory amazes me. We have Hispanics, Vietnamese, a group from Africa, and various other ethnic groups attending. I’ve never seen evidence of this “back of the bus” attitude.

I’m curious what part of the country this is common? Maybe the west coast is a bastion of tolerance.

Lisa

 

[Elizabeth502]

I would say the priests and bishops are accommodating. From my own experiences, Anglophone churchgoers are less than accepting of sitting side-by-side with non-English speakers.

Then you have limited experience. I really get around, and I have NEVER seen that. Priests and bishops are accommodating to a fault, even when unnecessary, and no parishioner moves away, grumbles, glowers, or anything remotely uncharitable when sitting next to somone whose first language is not English – again, any ethnicity.

Also, what you say really stretches credibility; there’s no logic to it. If anything, clergy sets the tone, and if clergy are welcoming, so is everyone else.

Sorry, it seriously sounds as if you need to get out more.

Maybe you happen to live in a very homogeneous area, but where I live, homogeneity is extinct. If you are not a visible minority, you will most likely be sitting next to someone who is. If a parishioner is not used to that, or can’t be gracious in those situations, he or she had better plan on going to Mass only in monasteries or in churches so large that chasms exist between congregants. (We have one such church in our region – more cathedral like than even the 2 official cathedrals.) Because in virtually every parish there is a large mix of nationalities.

 

[Rabbity]

I haven’t seen it either, at least not in the catholic churches here in Seattle.

In my experience the catholics make a strong effort to reach out and accommodate Spanish speakers, more so than most of the other churches I’ve visited. (Some of those other churches are actively hostile toward minorities/those who don’t speak English proficiently.)

The catholic store near where I live has a whole section - most the side wall - of Spanish books, videos, music, pamphlets, etc. I speak English natively and am learning Spanish in college; the people at the store encouraged me to volunteer there because they get a lot of Spanish speaking customers and interacting with them would be a good way for me to improve my speaking skills.

 

[Cojuanco]

I suppose it might vary from region to region or parish to parish. The one I currently belong to is almost entirely Anglophone in outlook, the Spanish speakers having their own parish. The one my parents belong to has multilingual priests, and accomodates Hispanics and Filipinos very well. It might be different outside the big cities and the Southwest.

 

[ProVobis]

Then you have limited experience.

Polish is/was my and my parent’s first language. I know the other side. And I lived in both the U.K. and U.S. There are more Polish Masses available now but this wasn’t true in the 60’s when they were changing the Mass from Latin to English. There is a lot of hostility towards those who don’t speak the English language in the U.S., don’t kid yourself. There is even hostility against those who speak English in a different dialect.

 

[BroomWagon]

Polish is/was my and my parent’s first language. I know the other side. And I lived in both the U.K. and U.S. There are more Polish Masses available now but this wasn’t true in the 60’s when they were changing the Mass from Latin to English. There is a lot of hostility towards those who don’t speak the English language in the U.S., don’t kid yourself. There is even hostility against those who speak English in a different dialect.

This doesn’t change what you say, however let’s not forget:

Even if Masses were said in Latin before Vatican II, many Metropolitan areas have always had their Polish Parish, their German Parish, their Czech Parish (ex: stwenceslaus.org/ ) Italian Parish like in the first Rocky Movie.

Likewise, in the Southwest, just per the part of town, you have likely long time had your Latino Parishes vs. then, the Catholic Churches for everyone, Hispanics included. And of course, present day, now you have Catholic Churches that basically serve the Vietnamese community and on and on.

In fact, per the Southwest, in some settlements, you basically still have some Churches that were probably established when it was still New Spain such as probably is the case with Chimayo New Mexico.

 

[Tigg]

Actually I remember the episode very well. The point was that it was REPUBLICANS who proposed the legislation. President Bush having been a border state President and with his brother married to a woman of Mexican heritage (I think she is an immigrant) there was a predisposition on his part to try to address the problems. Further the biggest champion of the Bush plan was another Republican John McCain.
Oh I remember the uprising among the civilians. Many saw the planned bill as granting amnesty prior to securing the border. I do not remember the details of the bill but that seems to be the basic premise…the Wimpy’s Plan of I’ll gladly buy a hamburger today and pay for it next Tuesday…

**The whole point of this offtake from the thread was that the Republicans have been vilified for “wanting to deport everyone” when this is simply not the case. **
I will say the Dems do a better job of bloviating. Given Obama did nothing when he had total control, given his increased deportations and employer raids and the gun running schemes by ATF with DOJ ignoring them, you’d think Hispanics might get the message they they are only interested in Hispanic votes, not immigration reform
Lisa

You are absolutely correct that Bush led the charge along with the Republican, Lindsey Graham, whom I believe is very instrumental this time as well. I used to have a link to a YouTube video in which both of them actually called Americans xenophobes for not wanting the legislation - it was carried in major newspapers at the time.

 

[Tigg]

Ill post you several articles to show you that it was 2006. If the ppl called their Congressman it got them motivated.

I no longer have the links and was relying upon an article I googled from Alipac, one of the major organizations which mobilized citizens in the protest – they stated it happened in 2007, but the year does not matter. What does matter is that citizens believed the bill did not promote the common good and were protesting to protect the border since the amnesty in ‘86 was an abysmal failure in stopping illegal immigration.

But to the OP’s thred, when you have politicians talking about God and dividing families you begin to say weres your morale at. PPl here constanlly blame Democrats and the Left, well the country is not in good standing right now, and both parties have caused that.

Do illegal people crossing the border not know the perils when they do so? Are they to be completely relieved of any personal responsibility and their own free will in deciding the matter for the good of their families? Your simplistic comment does not address the real issue as it relates to this thread. In a momentous decision regarding risks to the family, I would think one would rely upon the voice of God and a belief system and act accordingly. If one is relying upon politicians instead of living a sacramental life in their Catholic faith, how does this work?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Another thing needs to be realized. Sometimes “conversions” to this protestant denomination or that one are not quite genuine. I realize the following stories are anecdotal, but they do illustrate that sometimes not everything is as it seems.

I closed a real estate transaction between a local protestant minister and a Hispanic couple. It was a fairly sizeable transaction. When I did the “seller” part, the minister was obviously in a bad humor. Finally, he apologized and said he didn’t realize until he walked into the lobby that the buyer was a person who had professed conversion to his church, gotten lots of financial and other aid, then left the church when the benefits ran out. And here the man was buying his house. He added that he had experienced a lot of financial abuse of that nature.

My wife used to work in home health as an RN. She took care of the child of a Hispanic worman who (astonishingly) told her she was presently in the process of leaving the Baptist church for the Mormons because the Mormons had much better “deals”, materially. The Baptists were not her first “deal” either. She had been to others before that. My wife asked her why she wasn’t Catholic since she once purported to be. The lady responded that she was actually “nothing”, but saw nothing wrong with taking what the various churches had to offer. The woman herself was illegal, but since her child was born in the U.S. and was disabled, she couldn’t be deported, or so she said.

I knew well an Hispanic woman who was a non-denominational minister part-time. Full time, though, she was a maker of phony ID. She was really good at it, too, and even laughingly offered to make me a full set for myself, just for fun. (I declined) One wonders a bit just how much of her “ministry” was really a front for illegal activity or, if she meant it, how many of her “converts” were only after a good set of ID. Hard to know who was the “mark” in all of that.

 

[Cojuanco]

Actually, she could be deported. Nothing stopping the citizen child becoming a ward of the state.

 

[ProVobis]

Do illegal people crossing the border not know the perils when they do so? Are they to be completely relieved of any personal responsibility and their own free will in deciding the matter for the good of their families?

Yes, but when your chances of attaining legal and documented status are better under one party or even a religion, wouldn’t you be more attracted to that party or religion?

 

[Tigg]

Yes, but when your chances of attaining legal and documented status are better under one party or even a religion, wouldn’t you be more attracted to that party or religion?

Not if they advocated anything contrary to my faith life or conscience, I wouldn’t be.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Actually, she could be deported. Nothing stopping the citizen child becoming a ward of the state.

I have no reason to doubt you on this. Either law enforcement did not know it, one assumes, or the local family services did not want to take this child on. Given the child’s condition, I think it would have been pretty scary from their standpoint.

 

[LisaA]

Yes, but when your chances of attaining legal and documented status are better under one party or even a religion, wouldn’t you be more attracted to that party or religion?

Yeah but the Democrats have talked the talk but as noted in mulitple posts above, when they had the power to do so, they did NOTHING. Further as noted above, under Obama raids and deporations have gone up. The Univision debate demonstrated how angry many Hispanics are about the gun running, the drug trade and the violence in Mexico that they believe is at least partly attributable to US actions.

IOW the Dems are great at making promises and Obama threw out the recent “Dream Act Exeutive Order” as a bone to lure in Hispanics prior to the election.

As Tigg and others have noted, a number of Republican senators have been strong advocates of immigration reform, including candidate John McCain and LIndsey Graham. Further during the primary season, Newt Gingrich advanced his own plan that included a path to citizenship.

I admit the Dems have won the Spin War but their actions have not been particularly beneficial to Hispanics and the policies that have this economy in the toilet has hurt the minority lower and unskilled labor force much harder than us Tidy Whiteys.

It must be nice to be able to do nothing and still get credit…

Lisa

 

[BroomWagon]

Haven’t followed this line on illegal immigration but it might be a bit overplayed, maybe it would be important in Los Angeles but I’m not sure if it would be a major issue with Hispanics or Mexican Americans in other places. That said, Hispanics tend to be a long term voting bloc obviously for the Democrats save some differences in the past with the Cuban community.

 

[Cojuanco]

Yeah but the Democrats have talked the talk but as noted in mulitple posts above, when they had the power to do so, they did NOTHING. Further as noted above, under Obama raids and deporations have gone up. The Univision debate demonstrated how angry many Hispanics are about the gun running, the drug trade and the violence in Mexico that they believe is at least partly attributable to US actions.

IOW the Dems are great at making promises and Obama threw out the recent “Dream Act Exeutive Order” as a bone to lure in Hispanics prior to the election.

As Tigg and others have noted, a number of Republican senators have been strong advocates of immigration reform, including candidate John McCain and LIndsey Graham. Further during the primary season, Newt Gingrich advanced his own plan that included a path to citizenship.

I admit the Dems have won the Spin War but their actions have not been particularly beneficial to Hispanics and the policies that have this economy in the toilet has hurt the minority lower and unskilled labor force much harder than us Tidy Whiteys.

It must be nice to be able to do nothing and still get credit…

Lisa

Welcome to the wonderful world of modern politics. This crisis in my opinion started with Pete Wilson here in CA (who was liberal in pretty much everything else) and Taunton’s organizations (funny how FAIR’s board is strongly linked with Planned Parenthood, BTW - yet another example of how the Sangerites corrupt everything they touch). The media hasn’t helped, either (both the dominant English and Spanish news media are owned by pelvic liberals).