Gamergate (video game industry scandal)

[Peter_Plato]

Oh please, you put a coal plant owner across a hippie and you’re going to get a lot of people redefining what counts as ‘pollution’ throwing rocks over the table. Gaming is going to suffer the same debate. Whatever standards you’re going to argue for is really as loose as desert sand.

This goes to show that the one missing points is you.

Personally I’d just ask this guy how many video games has he played and for how long. If I get so much as a few seconds of awkward silence, you’ve just proven my point with what’s really wrong with the Gamergate scandal. Political culture warriors, who themselves have never even touched a video game, are highjacking this movement and steering everyone towards silly topics that I as a gamer do not care for.

Because of what? A couple of game reviews that not every single gamer is even required to read and take at face value?

You know what’s the best sort of game journalism? The one where you’re actually playing a game and keep playing it regardless of what either feminists or Jack Thompson are saying.

Honestly, the fact that you’re dragging in Obama and crying out more liberal media conspiracy only demonstrates my real point. Culture warriors are making this debate no longer about video games and more about their political drama, agenda, and cheap attempt to curry voters.

Actually, the fact that you bothered to plunk down a response to my post shows that there is more to it than you insist there isn’t.

Otherwise, you wouldn’t have wasted your time if there was no political hay to be made.

 

[Peter_Plato]

Honestly, the fact that you’re dragging in Obama and crying out more liberal media conspiracy only demonstrates my real point. Culture warriors are making this debate no longer about video games and more about their political drama, agenda, and cheap attempt to curry voters.

You are way off on this point, by the way.

Obama, the democrats and the political climate generally are not directing the cause of progressive liberalism but are small end products of it.

It strikes me that your attitude of “let me be to live my distracted existence” is merely a reincarnation of the “bread and circuses” that turned out so well for the Roman Empire, just this time instead of Gauls, Visgoths and Vandals, the barbarians are much less imposing fugures, yet still laying waste to the old order. It just shows how utterly defenseless, morally speaking, our culture has become. Too busy slaying virtual warriors to pay any heed to the SJWs tearing up the guards at the gate, apparently.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Obama, the democrats and the political climate generally are not directing the cause of progressive liberalism but are small end products of it.

Repeat: Do. Not. Care.

It just shows how utterly defenseless, morally speaking, our culture has become. Too busy slaying virtual warriors to pay any heed to the SJWs tearing up the guards at the gate, apparently.

Yes, let’s equate people with different views to barbarians wanting to axe and raze our cities.

Otherwise, you wouldn’t have wasted your time if there was no political hay to be made.

Where did I even say there was no ‘political hay’ to be made? You people are the ones making it and I have to expend so much time cleaning it out! Your dismissive, condescending labels of ‘bread and circus’ reeks of the very elitist culture warmongering that’s infesting what should be a neutral industry. Views like this are no more of a disease than the liberal agenda you claim to cure.

This exactly what I despise about both Gamergate and the people opposing it. You’re not a bunch of noble Romans making a 300-style last stand against marauding barbarians.

You’re all just a bunch of activists protesting against each other, all the while I’m struggling to just sit on the porch playing the family’s new 3DS in peace and quiet.

I only have two words for all of you: GET OUT!

Wanna make it three?: GET OUT! NOW!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

This just in: Gamergate and the politicization of absolutely everything

1. This isn’t a world in which we should be surprised that video games have been politicized. This is a world in which it was only a matter of time until video games were politicized. This is a world in which, sooner or later, most everything will get politicized.

1. What’s telling about the constellation of forces here is that none of them actually care much about video games. Prior to Gamergate, Sommers did not traffic in critical analyses of video gaming. Prior to Gamergate, Salon did not spend a lot of time writing about video games. Prior to Gamergate, the Colbert Report did not regularly cover gaming news. Rather, these are outlets and players that specialize in political conflict. And Gamergate has become a political conflict. Video games, at this point, are an excuse for that conflict.

I only have one word for these developments: Pathetic.

 

[latin_rite]

These are the facts about “gamergate.”

1. Woman makes game that is considered by about 99% of gamers to be a very very bad game .

2.Said woman sleeps with several game reviewers who all of a sudden give a incredibly bad game awesome reviews.

Make of it what you will.

 

[styrgwillidar]

This just in: Gamergate and the politicization of absolutely everything

I only have one word for these developments: Pathetic.

Yeah, I think the nanny state dictating what should be available for entertainment and what people should read/do in their spare time is very pathetic.

However, the Social Justice Warriors (SJW) have labeled the gaming community as a bunch of mysoginists who don’t know what’s good for them and are a clear and present danger to all of society!! That culture (as it exists in the minds of the SJWs vice reality) must be changed for your own good as well as society. Don’t worry, they know what’s best for all of us.

They Won’t Leave You Alone
… until justice is done in their eyes. Hence them being outrageously offended when the boycott efforts of the gamergate folks actually had some affect- game developers/distributors decided they didn’t want to offend their customer base- they want to continue selling games and not be dragged into SJW hot-button politics. Kind of similar to Starbucks and other retailers not wanting to take sides in the politics of guns in the US. They just want to sell product and let folks have political debates somewhere else, like in legislative bodies, voting booths, citizen feedback to their representatives, etc… ’

Which is the hope for the gaming industry. The folks doing most of the hoopla aren’t driving the economics of it. The ultimate vote goes to the folks who lay down cold hard cash for XBox and PS gaming consoles, games, AMD and Radeon graphics cards, 1000 watt Gold rated PSUs, intel i7 and AMD 9600 quad core CPUs, ASUS, MSI, FOXCONN, Gigabyte motherboards, solid state drives, units for liquid cooling of CPUs, gaming keyboards, headsets, etc. etc. etc.

Unlike guns, the SJWs are targeting the products of the industry. The hope for the gaming industry is that they will stay aligned with their customer base. They won’t advertise with ‘journalists’ who alienate that base by mischaracterizing, insulting it and who don’t even do the basics of journalism like-- providing disclaimers on personal relationships/business relationships with the subjects of their articles. So, you’ll get better quality and more honest journalism.

But, the SJWs will never leave you alone now that you’ve been targeted. Just won’t happen. And whole groups will be smeared by the actions of a couple of trolls or bad apples like in any other debate. But hopefully the industry will stick by you so the gaming community will still have the wide range of products they want from Mario type stuff through RPG, MMORPGs (right acronym), racing, etc. etc. etc. with the folks producing it allowed to exercise their creativity to make enjoyable games appropriate for the targeted audiences.

ETA: on the plus side I think the vast majority of gamers have no idea this is going on, so most of the arguing/debating is going on in an echo chamber of sorts- which doesn’t really drive the industry.

 

[John_Lazarus]

then why post in the first place? Zoe Quinn and here ilk are corrupt and that’s part of the problem here. she had sexist things said to her on the internet, but she also slept with a lot of people to give herself fame and to destroy the careers of those in the industry that oppose here. they are trying to distract away from the real issue of corruption because they were trolled a little bit, but it seems some of you people are falling for it.

I did not see any proof of this in the article.

If this is not proven, it is calumny. And maybe libel?

 

[Peter_Plato]

I only have two words for all of you: GET OUT!

Wanna make it three?: GET OUT! NOW!

Your attempted exorcism was ineffectual because you didn’t say the “magic” word, “Please!”.

 

[Scottgun]

I did not see any proof of this in the article.

If this is not proven, it is calumny. And maybe libel?

Agreed. The “slept with a lot of people” does need to be substantiated or retracted. From what I’ve read, Quinn does not deny the relationship that caused the controversy. (and it helps to remember that that it was a man that really perpetrated this) Even if they made no formal quid-pro-quo exchange of good reviews for sexual favors, it is still a conflict of interest. While fornication is a sin of course, the relationship actually wouldn’t be nearly as problematic in the game community if it had been disclosed up front. But apparently that’s a tall order these days.

But most of us take reviews with a grain of salt in any case. Really, one of the better ways to get more objective views on a game’s worthiness is to go on to Twitch and watch someone play it.

 

[Hobbes42]

The valuable Catholic Sci-Fi author John C. Wright on Gamergate: scifiwright.com/2014/10/saluting-gamergate/

John C Wright, brilliant and witty as per his wont.

It seems this whole kerfuffle was really a good example of mainstream gaming publications making a point of telling their readership how evil and hateful they are. Who even thinks that is a good idea? Much less good business practice…

The facts of the case are simple. The threats, don’t in any way detract from the original charges. Anyone can make a threat, anyone. All of these threats do not, and cannot be used to define and slander any and all skeptics of the involved parties in the scandal.

 

[WonderAndAwe]

These are the facts about “gamergate.”

1. Woman makes game that is considered by about 99% of gamers to be a very very bad game .

2.Said woman sleeps with several game reviewers who all of a sudden give a incredibly bad game awesome reviews.

Make of it what you will.

From what I’ve heard, Zoe Quinn was just the straw that broke the camel’s back.

I did like one of The Escapist’s articles on this that intentionally ignored what Gamergate (the scandal) was and actually wrote an entire article about gamergates (some kind of arthropods). I thought it was cute.

 

[Peter_Plato]

This just in: Gamergate and the politicization of absolutely everything

I only have one word for these developments: Pathetic.

I agree. What is “pathetic” is the attempt to drive a political agenda by media manipulation - the manipulation of all media.

If you think gamers have no interest in whether or why they are being manipulated or you suppose, as a class, they are immune to it, you might want to read a bit more on the topic.

voxday.blogspot.ca/search?q=Gamergate

If you suppose all gamers, like you seem to be, are socially disinterested, you may want to reassess that view.

If you want to insist Mr. Beale has no real knowledge or experience with gaming, read his credentials - he was a programmer and game developer.

voxday.blogspot.ca/2014/10/gamergate-open-letter.html

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I agree. What is “pathetic” is the attempt to drive a political agenda by media manipulation - the manipulation of all media.

If you think gamers have no interest in whether or why they are being manipulated or you suppose, as a class, they are immune to it, you might want to read a bit more on the topic.

Where did I suggest they were immune? Again, quit putting words in my mouth. The problem isn’t just the so-called SJWs highjacking gaming media publications. The problem is when their GOP-sympathetic counterparts are hijacking the opposition. Thus, the debate devolves. It’s no longer about video games but yet another cesspool brought about by the crass American culture war.

Do I think feminists annoying because I enjoy games where I’m showered affection by five girls at once? Yes. Am I about to wear a “I <3 Ron Paul/Mitt Romney/Sarah Palin” hat?
Uh, no. You see now? That’s what I’m getting here. I am not about to get chummy with the chauvinistic sorority jock or the Evangelical teacher who wants me to burn my games for Jesus just because we all share a common enemy.

Heck, when dealing with said ‘enemy,’ there are many who have highjacked the GG movement who have served more as an interfering obstacle than anything remotely called assistance.

voxday.blogspot.ca/search?q=Gamergate

If you suppose all gamers, like you seem to be, are socially disinterested, you may want to reassess that view.

Sounds to me like this blogger has more in agreement with me than he does with you. Socially disinterested? This guy’s practically deliberate about it! Why are you shooting yourself in the foot?

#GamerGate ultimately comes down to one thing. We gamers like our core games the way they are, and we aren’t going to change them for anyone or for any reason except better gameplay. And we don’t give a quantum of a damn what any casual gamer who plays Myst/Cooking Mama/Farmville/Angry Birds does, thinks, wants, or says. All the theatrical handwringing rhetoric about misogyny and harassment and death threats means absolutely nothing to any of us. It doesn’t matter if Literally Who, Literally Who 2, and Literally Wu wind up being ritually tortured and force-fed Ebola before being sacrificed to Cthulhu on an altar made of desert-aged E.T. cartridges, that’s not going to alter any of our opinions on the matter in the slightest.

 

[Peter_Plato]

Where did I suggest they were immune? Again, quit putting words in my mouth. The problem isn’t just the so-called SJWs highjacking gaming media publications. The problem is when their GOP-sympathetic counterparts are hijacking the opposition. Thus, the debate devolves. It’s no longer about video games but yet another cesspool brought about by the crass American culture war.

I think the issue here is that you have misidentified what the “culture war” actually is and who the parties in it actually are. It isn’t a war between democrats and republicans as political parties, but between liberal progressives who “feel” that human will is not merely a good but the supreme good and traditional conservatives who think that truth exists and the human will is best served by being tempered by sound reasoning.

The issue in the culture war is with the use of indoctrination methods to subtly coerce the political views of citizens. That is what is at stake. Liberal progressives “feel” that doing what you want, i.e., the power of the will or human freedom is the highest good and will not broach any opposition to that view. There is no reasoning with those who hold that view because will, not reason nor truth, is what means anything at all. Freedom rules and anyone or anything - including truth or sound reasoning - that oppose enshrining human freedom as the ultimate good, politically, are the enemy. The SJWs are those who have taken this view and fanatically seek to impose it on others by whatever means necessary, especially social coercion and media manipulation.

Do I think feminists annoying because I enjoy games where I’m showered affection by five girls at once? Yes. Am I about to wear a “I <3 Ron Paul/Mitt Romney/Sarah Palin” hat?
Uh, no. You see now? That’s what I’m getting here. I am not about to get chummy with the chauvinistic sorority jock or the Evangelical teacher who wants me to burn my games for Jesus just because we all share a common enemy.

Heck, when dealing with said ‘enemy,’ there are many who have highjacked the GG movement who have served more as an interfering obstacle than anything remotely called assistance.

Sounds to me like this blogger has more in agreement with me than he does with you. Socially disinterested? This guy’s practically deliberate about it! Why are you shooting yourself in the foot?

This is why I chose Vox Day: to demonstrate a point. He is neither democrat nor republican and, in fact, left the United States partly because of the political climate there. (I am not an Amercian, either.) The reason he posted the list of media outlets that quickly “got on board” reporting on Gamergate was to show how the media is marshaled towards advocating one side or the other politically. In other words, that the media is “being used” by political parties to indoctrinate viewers into polarized views. The issue isn’t so much that the media got on board, but that the media represents political interests and is working at the behest of those interests by presenting one-sided analysis - taking sides rather than presenting a balanced viewpoint.

Vox Day does have very strong political views and has been attacked in the media by SJWs for expressing views contrary to theirs. Go onto RationalWiki to see how vicious those attacks have been.

Again, his point, like mine, is that the culture war is not about opposing political views but, rather, about how the political system ought to be used. Any party that uses the media to indoctrinate or manipulate compliance with a particular view is on the wrong side of the culture war - the side that has no issue with indoctrination and coercion as political tools.

At bottom this is a war between two views of human nature and one that has been endemic in human society since Eve was taken in by the subtle manipulation of the serpent. One side claiming that the raw power of human will is the highest good, the other claiming that goodness and truth are. There is no abstaining from this war because abstaining means someone somewhere will force their views on you politically because that is what they view as the “good” - having their way by bringing about what they want.

The other side of the culture war, the one that I support - and if you read Vox Day or John C. Wright, the one they work very hard to defend and explain - is the one that says truth and goodness have precedence over sheer force of will and good politics is NEVER about coercion and manipulation but about education and sound reasoning.

The reason Gamergate is important in this “war” is because it represents a stand against those who control the media in any form to push political ends. Politically speaking, the media ought to be a watchdog that expresses all sides to uncover the truth not to hide bias in order to push an agenda. Having the media play the role of expressing the “meta” or oversight view is a political end, if you view politics in its traditional role as acting for the good of the people rather than merely imposing some predetermined beliefs on the people.

I think Ed Feser has gotten very close to the grounding principles in the culture war in this blog post:

edwardfeser.blogspot.ca/2014/11/voluntarism-and-psr.html

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

It isn’t a war between democrats and republicans as political parties, but between liberal progressives who “feel” that human will is not merely a good but the supreme good and traditional conservatives who think that truth exists and the human will is best served by being tempered by sound reasoning.

So you think by switching the labels from political to philosophical, you think this solves everything? It doesn’t. Frankly, you’re just imposing your philosopher’s take on Gamergate.

My take is that of the gamer. And by gamer, I mean someone who actively purchases and plays video games. My political, philosophical, religious what-have-you, take third place in that regard.

Because, really, if we were to apply your dichotomy between impulse and reasoning, your previous example Vox Day has clearly betrayed you:

And yet, none of this is having ANY effect whatsoever on the activity of game developers. Literally none. There are no AAA developers suddenly deciding that instead of a 3D shooter, they are going to develop Kim Kardashian’s Mutant Butt Goes to the Mall. Blizzard is not going to halt Warlords of Draenor in order to put more clothes on the girl-Dranei or ensure that they are sufficiently Strong and Independent for Literally Who’s liking. Matrix is not going to start publishing Fashion Quest: Kicky Heels instead of its 576th World War II wargame, Operation Johann: the Czechoslovakian Plan to Invade Lichtenstein. And as far as I am aware, no one is running out to hire Zoe Quinn as a design lead.

Sounds like a good case of human will acting in defiance of what anyone else (including you) would define as reason.

And really, you’re equating the SJWs and ‘feminist’ haters of GG to human will freedom fighters? Apparently, human will is free so long as it’s not that of the hormonal, straight male.

This is why I chose Vox Day: to demonstrate a point. He is neither democrat nor republican and, in fact, left the United States partly because of the political climate there.

He’s not making any cases for your philosophy either. Heck, I see more proof he’s for the ‘progressive’ ideals you’re arguing against.

I think Ed Feser has gotten very close to the grounding principles in the culture war in this blog post:

edwardfeser.blogspot.ca/2014/11/voluntarism-and-psr.html

And this guy plays what games…?

I repeat: No matter what philosophy or political wagon you’re reading, we do not care.

Do. Not. Care.

The very idea of a culture war is pure toxic. (Heck, sometimes I wonder if it’s even more toxic than porn).

Whatever sides you think there are, plenty of us would just rather take your little war and fight it on someone else’s lawn. I’ve got high-rank armor to make and some monsters to kill.

 

[Peter_Plato]

And really, you’re equating the SJWs and ‘feminist’ haters of GG to human will freedom fighters? Apparently, human will is free so long as it’s not that of the hormonal, straight male.

You have no clue what my position is do you?

The above shows you clearly don’t.

No worries, I’ll waste no more time.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

You have no clue what my position is do you?

The above shows you clearly don’t.

No worries, I’ll waste no more time.

Nope, I do. That’s why I don’t care. Your dichotomies are irrelevant.

As are your philosophies. Come back when you actually want to video games. (Assuming you even play any.)

 

[styrgwillidar]

Here’s an interesting article pointing out that the urge to sanitize literature/art/entertainment to supposedly prevent it corrupting it’s audience is not a recent development.

pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2014/11/08/why-the-gamergate-story-is-so-boring/3/

" Plato already tried it out in the 4th century BC, in his Republic. In book 2, Socrates lays down the ground rules for art and poetry in his imaginary utopia. Violent myths, he says, “are absolutely not to be mentioned . . . in stories or painted in artwork.” The citizens of a perfect society have to be trained to hate disorder. So their bedtime stories have to be squeaky-clean. If they’re allowed to hear about domestic violence on Olympus or wars between the gods, little boys won’t ever grow up to be respectful and obedient adults. Violent myths make violent men."

…

“The video game world is the world of the imagination. It’s a colorful profusion of legends and landscapes that describe what it feels like to be alive. There are goofy plumbers who rescue princesses and gritty soldiers of fortune who mutilate alien invaders — they express our sense that fighting to protect the defenseless is noble and right, no matter who you are. And yes, there are also depraved killers who torture the innocent — they reflect the perverse, violent impulse in the human heart. But editing games isn’t going to erase that impulse. It’ll just turn video games from lush, vibrant art into dry, empty ideology. Like other progressive credos (socialism, environmentalism, cultural relativism), the idea that we can fix reality by telling nicer stories about it has been around for centuries. It has always fallen flat on its face. You wouldn’t think it would take 2000 years to figure that out.”

 

[Peter_Plato]

x

Nope, I do. That’s why I don’t care. Your dichotomies are irrelevant.

As are your philosophies. Come back when you actually want to video games. (Assuming you even play any.)

Used to, but I wouldn’t waste my time, now. I grew up.

What does this even mean?

Come back when you actually want to video games.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

x

Used to, but I wouldn’t waste my time, now. I grew up.

What does this even mean?

Way to prove my point. Your condescension towards gamers is what’s rotting the other side of GG. You don’t care about games. You just want a culture soapbox much like the SJWs. We gamers are nothing more than your unwitting excuse.

I repeat: Pathetic.