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Teflon93
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Absolutely—scandal is a mortal sin.
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donmaximuso27
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I believe you are referring to these sections of JPII’s Ut Unum Sint:There is also Pope John Paul II’s Ut unum Sint, On commitment to Ecumenism in which he says (paraphrased) Those of the Jewish Religion are not heretics, but because of their convenant to God which has never been broken and because they are the foundation of Christianity, they have a special relationship with God. They will be saved in a special manner unknown to us. Also, re: non-Catholics: All Christian Religions have some element of truth as expressed in the Roman Catholic Church. Because of these elements, they are members of the Roman Catholic Faith (don’t “think” he said Mystical Body). Therefore (they do have a means of salvation.) Would have to check on the exact wording of this, but it is something similar. Traditionalists hold that this is heretical, but there is a literal way to translate scripture, which I think most Trads. do and a spiritual translation. Pope John II has spoken and I agree wholeheartedly with his statements. Also don’t know if this is ex Cathedra.
The Council states that the Church of Christ “subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him”, and at the same time acknowledges that “many elements of sanctification and of truth can be found outside her visible structure. These elements, however, as gifts properly belonging to the Church of Christ, possess an inner dynamism towards Catholic unity”.11
“It follows that these separated Churches and Communities, though we believe that they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of significance and value in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church”.12
Here, John Paul II quotes the Second Vatican Council, showing that the non-Catholic Churches do have truth. However, it states that any truth in these churches is indeed from the Catholic Church. Therefore, this encyclical still maintains that the Catholic Church is the One, True Holy and Apostolic Church. It still maintains that any non-Catholic who knows the Catholic Church to be the one, true Church, and still refuses to join it, cannot be saved. It also shows that the many non-Catholics are indeed subject to the doctrine of invincible ignorance. They may have aspects of the Catholic faith, certain truths, but they still are not members of the Catholic Church, there is a difference. We still maintain that those outside the Church cannot be saved, of course remembering invincible ignorance.
As for Traditionalists, I have never met one who translates the Bible in the literal way you speak of, as if all Traditionalists are Bible Christians. That is simply not the case. Traditionalists are just as open to the many different ways of interpreting Scripture and looking at the context of each passage. They are in no way ignorant of historical-critical methods, allegories, or anything else that is used as a tool to better understand Scripture. It is quite a mistake to make this assumption about traditionalists.
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SongofShepherds
Guest
I’d consider also, that there have people in the Buddhist faith and the Hindu faith who’s bodies have been incorrupt. These people were purportedly “Holy” as well. Another phenomenon is “Sharira” and one can easily read up on it on the net, it is like a luminescent, “patina” is a word used, I think that means kind of like a film that has formed on the bones of cremated Buddhists such as one, Hsua Hua in California. How can such be explained?
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Brian777
Guest
that’s cool but i wouldnt read too much into it, it could be Satan trying to make second guess ourselves… Satan is craftyI’d consider also, that there have people in the Buddhist faith and the Hindu faith who’s bodies have been incorrupt. These people were purportedly “Holy” as well. Another phenomenon is “Sharira” and one can easily read up on it on the net, it is like a luminescent, “patina” is a word used, I think that means kind of like a film that has formed on the bones of cremated Buddhists such as one, Hsua Hua in California. How can such be explained?
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SongofShepherds
Guest
You may be right, we have to be cautious.that’s cool but i wouldnt read too much into it, it could be Satan trying to make second guess ourselves… Satan is crafty
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SongofShepherds
Guest
It has been done, and though it is not a from a big motion picture company like Paramount or Warner Brothers, this film and it was a stage presentation as well; was as potent as many Hollywood movies, chances are, you may know of this movie, outstanding and really, it’s not easy to compare to a high budget movie.…
You picked a wonderful saint—if only someone would give his story the cinematic treatment so that many more people would have an awareness of what Kolbe did!
Leonardo DeFillipis did one man portrayals of both St. John of the Cross and St. Maximilian Kolbe, Marytown? M.I. of America? www.consecration.com surely has this movie as well as many of your Catholic Stores.
stlukeproductions.com/videosplays.asp
It’s on this page as well.
That may be in fact, the company started up by DeFillipis. Great acting, great talent, great stories, but I do believe the Kolbe treatise is exceptionally better than some of the others.
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Teflon93
Guest
Thanks for the link and the head’s up—for a serious subject such as Kolbe, I’d think a smaller-budget production would be a big plus.It has been done, and though it is not a from a big motion picture company like Paramount or Warner Brothers, this film and it was a stage presentation as well; was as potent as many Hollywood movies, chances are, you may know of this movie, outstanding and really, it’s not easy to compare to a high budget movie.
Leonardo DeFillipis did one man portrayals of both St. John of the Cross and St. Maximilian Kolbe, Marytown? M.I. of America? www.consecration.com surely has this movie as well as many of your Catholic Stores.
stlukeproductions.com/videosplays.asp
It’s on this page as well.
That may be in fact, the company started up by DeFillipis. Great acting, great talent, great stories, but I do believe the Kolbe treatise is exceptionally better than some of the others.
Could you imagine the Oliver Stone version?
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SongofShepherds
Guest
I don’t mean to be offtopic everyone, but the VHS tapes at the St. Luke site are at a deep discount. I will have to look into it because I originally got the “Maximilian, St. of Auschwitz” about 7 years ago and it was worth it at the original price. Of course, many are using DVDs now.Thanks for the link and the head’s up—for a serious subject such as Kolbe, I’d think a smaller-budget production would be a big plus.
Could you imagine the Oliver Stone version?
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