Gaps in Evolution

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I agree that the topic does matter. The widespread use of evolutionary science to undermine or attempt to destroy the Catholic faith is a serious danger.

Many are taught that:

Atheistic scientists cannot possibly be wrong because they are “experts” (and you are not).

The laws of science are absolute. God can not, and has never (if you want to believe that God exists) interfered with the laws of science of the development of nature, the universe or human life.

Believers in God are ignorant, unless they uncritically accept everything that evolutionists claim (even when the evolutionists are proven wrong later).

Science is more important than religion.

Non-believers should be presented religious ideas that are compatible with atheistic materialism. Otherwise, they might ridicule believers (and we must do everything possible to avoid that ridicule – including, compromising the truths of faith).
 
That’s not too close to what I said. I said that by your own assertions - that your mind is nothing but a physical thing

Nope, i said there is no empirical evidence to suggest otherwise.

that evolved by a process that has no goal in mind

Depends what you mean by goal? If you are trying to imply evolution is random then you are wrong.

that is driven only by self-preservation

Wrong again. Self-preservation has nothing to do with evolution.

**that there is no basis for believing, as you do, that it is something capable of finding and recognizes truth about anything! **

You don’t think that understanding surroundings would give an animal a survial advantage???

**This is very elementary logic, my friend. **

No this is a lack of understand of evolution my friend.

**If this is false, then what assurance do you have that what your brain is telling you - about God or anything else - is TRUE? **

Ah are we going on to a bit of the old rene descartes here? I love this guff :).

Why should that clump of neurons that evolved just to keep your ancestors eating and mating be able to do that? Are you sure you understand the question?

Maybe you should study some real science, might help you out with the above.

As was also pointed out, such a material brain could not possibly “know” any abstract concept. Since, according to you, every thought you have is NOTHING but a pattern of specific, physical neurons firing, no two brains are even capable of considering the same abstract concept!

No two brains can’t consider the same concept, are you sure about that???
**
Tell me, how does your brain represent pi (the concept, not the number)? Or “truth” for that matter? Clearly, what your brain thinks they are can’t even be identical to any other brain’s representation!**

Why on earth not? Patterns are almost universal in societies. If you walk into a math class and ask what pi is i bet almost everyone would answer 3.14.

Anyway heres your main failing. I dont need to know that answer to any of the above, and that does nothing for the god position. All that does is leave us at “we don’t know” and we don’t know does NOT = “god did it”. If you want to posit a soul then YOU need to back your claim with evidence, and you still have not given me one shread.

Atheism is not a belief system? You don’t believe there’s no God? Which is it?

I don’t BELIEVE there is NO god. Happy?
**
You may know a thing or two about evolution, but it doesn’t appear you have experience in the field of logic at any level.**

If you mean philosophy, i have no interest in the subject. When it comes to understnad the cosmos its not fit to be mentioned in the same breath as science. Nor is religion for that matter.
 
tjm190 said:
Well try try refuting this argument on your own- When your body is cold, the hypothalamus often gives us “goosebumps.” These goosebumps are goosebumps are the method by which primates and other mammals fluff up their fur to keep warm- however, we don’t have fur. So why the goosebumps if they serve no purpose? Well, it should be obvious, that this fur is a result of the fact that our ancestors had fur, so this function served a purpose in the past- but the fur is gone, so we have a vestigial function.
Or God gave us a purposeless trait solely intended to trick us into thinking we evolved from a time when this function had a purpose.
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Goosebumps are a normal human reaction to cold and sometimes to scary stuff. Nothing more, nothing less. The reason we don’t have fur is because we are a distinct species in kind. By the way, whose ancestors had fur? 😉
 
You - Are - A - Random - Accident of no greater consequence than a bacteria.

Not sure who thinks that, but its not evolution.

The evolution I am referring to always refers to things that supposedly happened millions of years ago. No one was around to observe. It is not repeatable in a laboratory.

Tell me do we have to recreate a murder to know someone was murdered? Or can we peice together the evidence? Oh and its no the process that has to be repeatable its the experiments (the EVIDENCE).
 
grannymh said:
Goosebumps are a normal human reaction to cold and sometimes to scary stuff. Nothing more, nothing less.
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They are also a reaction to exciting things (a piece of music) or feelings of love and joy. They actually cause greater sensitivity in the skin – they’re given by God as a sensation, and we use it descriptively:

“That argument against evolution was so brilliant it gave me goosebumps.”

Clearly, God designed it that way. 🙂
 
edwest2 said:
Here, science does not mean all of science. In my studies of electronics, how often was evolution brought up? Zero. Here, science only means evolution.
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That is correct. When someone objects to various claims of evolutionists, we hear the response that the person “opposes all science”. That is obviously false.
Believing in God is viewed as mind pollution by neo-paganists and followers of Darwin’s theory as presented as working entirely by itself. You - Are - A - Random - Accident of no greater consequence than a bacteria.
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The believers of that theory do not like to hear the direct, logical conclusions of the theory stated so clearly and frankly. So, they will claim that you “don’t understand evolution”. They never refute your statement, because it is irrefutable. But they are pretty good at ridiculing people for irrelevant things, and that tends to keep the discussion going long enough for the original, irrefutable argument to get lost several posts back in the thread.
The evolution I am referring to always refers to things that supposedly happened millions of years ago. No one was around to observe. It is not repeatable in a laboratory.
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I think the evolution you are referring to is the mainstream, most popular and widespread notion. It’s an interpretation of natural history and is, at the same time, claimed to be a fact (although it cannot be proven for the reason you gave).
 
grannymh said:
Goosebumps are a normal human reaction to cold and sometimes to scary stuff. Nothing more, nothing less. The reason we don’t have fur is because we are a distinct species in kind. By the way, whose ancestors had fur? 😉
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… But do you know why we get them? It isn’t random. Other mammals get goosebumps to fluff up their fur. However, when we lost our fur, we kept that function. Or, God is trying to trick us- bit if God is truth, that can’t be true.
 
Charles_Darwin said:
Well thats kinda like asking me for my favroute source of evidence for evolution, there is just to much. Why don’t you decide what you want to research and read though abstracts unitl you find research that suits your needs. Thats what i do.
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Charles, I will rephrase my request by saying that my request is not to satisfy my needs or not to satisfy my curiosity. I can understand your way of reading through abstracts and I accept that. Now since that is what you say you do, please share with me something you found which met your needs or curiosity about the brain. Or what is the last thing you have read on humans and evolution?

I am not picking on you. I have, at one time or another, asked most of the posters here to share their information and research. I am still doing it because the human species fascinates me in its complexity. And I will soon get back to some very interesting answers to my questions.

By the way, my favorite sources for evolution are the following web sites:


--this is the one scientists refer to as “the tree of life”

Blessings,
granny

Human life is meant for eternal life with God.
 
Charles_Darwin said:
**
You may know a thing or two about evolution, but it doesn’t appear you have experience in the field of logic at any level.**

If you mean philosophy, i have no interest in the subject. When it comes to understnad the cosmos its not fit to be mentioned in the same breath as science. Nor is religion for that matter.
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I think that is an excellent answer and it should explain much to PaulF2 and anyone else who might be interested in discussing matters with you.

The field of logic is, indeed, a branch of philosophy.

It’s very helpful to know that you “have no interest in the subject”. That clarifies many things and settles the confusion I had when trying to argue with you previously.

It’s my hope, sincerely, that I could be of help to you in some other way. I cannot use a philosophical (logical) approach for reasons given.

For me, it would be best to try to understand you on a personal level - since argumentation cannot be the correct means of communicating.
 
Some women fluff their hair when they are attracted to a man.

We know that some birds fluff their feathers when attracting the opposite sex.

Thus, women obviously evolved from birds. What other explanation could possibly explain it?? 🙂

… ok, I know there is another reasonable alternative … birds evolved from women. Yes, indeed.
 
tjm190 said:
… But do you know why we get them? It isn’t random. Other mammals get goosebumps to fluff up their fur. However, when we lost our fur, we kept that function. Or, God is trying to trick us- bit if God is truth, that can’t be true.
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Who did you say proved the human species had fur and then lost it?

I apologize for being so cranky about goosebumps. Maybe it is time again for me to declare that –

I flat out refuse to be considered the same as other mammal species.
 
grannymh said:
Who did you say proved the human species had fur and then lost it?

I apologize for being so cranky about goosebumps. Maybe it is time again for me to declare that I flat out refuse to be considered the same as other mammal species.
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Well that’s my explanation. Goosebumps, in species with fur, serve to fluff up their fur. When we experience those situations, we still get goosebumps- our hypothalamus does the same thing an animal with fur’s hypothalamus does. Why would an intelligent designed include such a pointless feature?
 
tjm190 said:
Well that’s my explanation. Goosebumps, in species with fur, serve to fluff up their fur. When we experience those situations, we still get goosebumps- our hypothalamus does the same thing an animal with fur’s hypothalamus does. Why would an intelligent designed include such a pointless feature?
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Thank you for letting me know that it is your explanation. Regarding your last question. I am not qualified to answer questions about intelligent design or an intelligent designer.
 
reggieM said:
That is correct. When someone objects to various claims of evolutionists, we hear the response that the person “opposes all science”. That is obviously false.
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Actually it’s not. When we talk about science we actually mean the scientific method. If you reject evolution then you reject this method. Which means you reject all of science.
 
reggieM said:
I think that is an excellent answer and it should explain much to PaulF2 and anyone else who might be interested in discussing matters with you.

The field of logic is, indeed, a branch of philosophy.

It’s very helpful to know that you “have no interest in the subject”. That clarifies many things and settles the confusion I had when trying to argue with you previously.

It’s my hope, sincerely, that I could be of help to you in some other way. I cannot use a philosophical (logical) approach for reasons given.

For me, it would be best to try to understand you on a personal level - since argumentation cannot be the correct means of communicating.
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Well it depends what you mean by logic. I am currently doing honors in maths and computing. Are you suggesting there is no logic involved in computer programming?

The facts is, when it comes to understanding the universe philosophy has nothing on the scientific method. I don’t mean this as an insult to philosophers, it is just a fact.
 
grannymh said:
Charles, I will rephrase my request by saying that my request is not to satisfy my needs or not to satisfy my curiosity. I can understand your way of reading through abstracts and I accept that. Now since that is what you say you do, please share with me something you found which met your needs or curiosity about the brain. Or what is the last thing you have read on humans and evolution?

I am not picking on you. I have, at one time or another, asked most of the posters here to share their information and research. I am still doing it because the human species fascinates me in its complexity. And I will soon get back to some very interesting answers to my questions.

By the way, my favorite sources for evolution are the following web sites:


--this is the one scientists refer to as “the tree of life”

Blessings,
granny

Human life is meant for eternal life with God.
Click to expand...
This is the last page i read…

evolutionpages.com/chromosome_2.htm
 
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