Garabandal Status?

[thistle]

It sounds like a deeply moving experience! Thank you for sharing it with us. Since you seemed to ask about this, the pious tradition of the relics of the True Cross is that they were brought back from Jerusalem by Constantine’s mother, St. Helena, not his wife. St. Helena brought back any number of other relics at the same time and was the prime moving force in having churches built on the sites of several holy places. If you are interested in learning more about her, here is a link to the Catholic Encyclopedia artucle from New Advent: newadvent.org/cathen/07202b.htm

Via con Dios!
Clare

Just bear in mind the Church has not declared the so-called relic of the True Cross as being genuine. St Helena visited the Holy Land several hundred years after the death of Christ and there is absolutely no way, even for the Church, to verify the authenticity of that piece of wood.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

It sounds like a deeply moving experience! Thank you for sharing it with us. Since you seemed to ask about this, the pious tradition of the relics of the True Cross is that they were brought back from Jerusalem by Constantine’s mother, St. Helena, not his wife. St. Helena brought back any number of other relics at the same time and was the prime moving force in having churches built on the sites of several holy places. If you are interested in learning more about her, here is a link to the Catholic Encyclopedia artucle from New Advent: newadvent.org/cathen/07202b.htm

Via con Dios!
Clare

Yes I am aware of this, perhaps my irony above was a tad too subtle

I know that the history of the wood of the true cross doesn’t exactly fill one with confidence that it really is so (Constantine’s wife? “found” it on Golgotha when visiting Jerusalem 300 years later)… Does it matter? What matters I believe is the sincereity of the venerator - it certainly did us a lot of good to make this pilgrim effort for Jesus’s sake.

 

[brumano]

Sr. Lucia said nor wrote anything about ‘three more popes’. (I have read most of the documents on Fatima.) And entire books on Garabandal, including Conchita’s diary are also online. The ‘three more popes and then it will be the end of times but not the end of the world’ is definitely a true statement from and associated with Garabandal (not Fatima). The statement is known to have been attributed to Our Lady by Conchita; the only question remaining is that of its interpretation - for even Conchita said she did not understand what it meant. (Most visionaries from various apparitions admit to being given messages, but not the interpretation of the messages, so it is not surprising that Conchita, like the rest of us, is left to wonder about its meaning.)

God bless you.

I 'll tell you the green book as it was known is still well worth reading about Fatima; “Fatima Journey” I believe is the title, no matter how much you’ve read on Fatima I’m sure you won’t be able to put it down, and it is I’m sure still the authoritative source on the subject. Fr. DiMarchi was given extensive interviewing priveledges with Sr. Lucia as he was the artist who sculpted the first statues of Our Lady of Fatima, based on the descriptions that she provided.
Back to our subject, where has the prediction about only three more Popes originated? Sr. Lucia in later years also wrote memoirs, alot of what she wrote reflected her disgust at the failure of the church authorities to act on the Fatima message, the consecration of Russia and so forth. She was a Mystic and I think she had another apparition many years later that prompted her to write letters to the Pope and some Bishops; it may be in this second apparition that this warning of only three more Popes, seems maybe to have begun, I don’t know.
I do know that I have heard of this prophecy since an early age, but I really never even heard of Garabandal or Conchita until the 1990’s. There seems also to be a possible connection in this to another prophecy that is widely known of, but that no one seems to know where it started from, and that is The Great Apostasy prediction.

Actually, again I’m with you I know where you are coming from, I come from there too, it’s a place where we know in our hearts more than in our minds that something is true that we believe in, no matter what the doubters might say. God bless you too

 

[beehumble]

I 'll tell you the green book as it was known is still well worth reading about Fatima; “Fatima Journey” I believe is the title, no matter how much you’ve read on Fatima I’m sure you won’t be able to put it down, and it is I’m sure still the authoritative source on the subject. Fr. DiMarchi was given extensive interviewing priveledges with Sr. Lucia as he was the artist who sculpted the first statues of Our Lady of Fatima, based on the descriptions that she provided.
Back to our subject, where has the prediction about only three more Popes originated? Sr. Lucia in later years also wrote memoirs, alot of what she wrote reflected her disgust at the failure of the church authorities to act on the Fatima message, the consecration of Russia and so forth. She was a Mystic and I think she had another apparition many years later that prompted her to write letters to the Pope and some Bishops; it may be in this second apparition that this warning of only three more Popes, seems maybe to have begun, I don’t know.
I do know that I have heard of this prophecy since an early age, but I really never even heard of Garabandal or Conchita until the 1990’s. There seems also to be a possible connection in this to another prophecy that is widely known of, but that no one seems to know where it started from, and that is The Great Apostasy prediction.

Actually, again I’m with you I know where you are coming from, I come from there too, it’s a place where we know in our hearts more than in our minds that something is true that we believe in, no matter what the doubters might say. God bless you too

I have no idea where you are coming from; most of this post of yours is, to put it as charitably as I can, in error. I will not address these errors point by point except to say Sr. Lucia loved the Church and the pope; she never said anything about 3 more popes.

You might want to read Sr. Lucia’s memoirs.

God bless you.

 

[Edward_Henry]

Just bear in mind the Church has not declared the so-called relic of the True Cross as being genuine. St Helena visited the Holy Land several hundred years after the death of Christ and there is absolutely no way, even for the Church, to verify the authenticity of that piece of wood.

**Forum Police **

There we go again… :crying: is there anything in this forum that we may believe in without the blessing of the Forum Police? And to think that thousands of “naive” devout pilgrims from all over Europe who have been stopping there to venerate the Relics since the sixth Century have been wrong and blind to the “logic” and* “truth”* that only exists in this Forum.

Maybe we should blame Our Lord for allowing in His salvific plan the existence of all these relics and not leaving us proper documentation for each one of them.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Lignum-crucis.jpg
History
Its origins are obscure, but it was during the reign of Alfonso I of Asturias, who was repopulating the area around Liébana during the early part of the reconquest of Spain in the mid-8th century. The first reference to the monastery of Turieno with the protection of Saint Turibius was made in 1125. Its foundation is attributed to a 6th century Bishop of Palencia called Turibius of Liébana, who retired with some companions to Liébana to live according to the Benedictine rule. When it was founded, the monastery was first dedicated to Saint Martin of Tours, which name over time was changed to Saint Turibius of Liébana. Probably during the 8th century, the body of another 6th century bishop, Saint Turibius of Astorga was moved to the monastery, along with relics which he was believed to have brought from the Holy Land for safekeeping.

The most important of these is that of the **Wood of the True Cross **(Lignum Crucis), believed by some Roman Catholics to be the biggest surviving piece of the cross upon which Jesus Christ was crucified. Because of this, the monastery was an important pilgrimage centre, and is one of the important holy sites of Roman Catholicism in Europe, alongside other notable places such as Rome, Santiago de Compostela, Caravaca de la Cruz and Assisi. The monastery was also where the 8th century monk Beatus of Liébana wrote and illustrated his works, such as his Commentary on the Apocalypse.

The monastery was originally a royal possession, but it was given by Alfonso VIII of Castile to Count Gómez y Countess Emilia, who then passed it on to the monastery of Oña (Burgos), along with other properties in Liébana and neighbouring provinces. The monastic community ceased to exist after the forced sale of religious land in Spain in 1837, but was replaced in 1961 by a small community of Friars Minor.

Santo Toribio de Liébana

 

[Blue_Horizon]

…The trouble remains, not with me, but from those who would condemn the whole thing just by saying, uh, just do the math…there’s been more than three Popes after John XXIII, case closed. Now you may be able to understand from your knowledge of the whole thing good reasons as to why the case is not closed, but how do you get them to understand those reasons as you do?

Good point Brumano.

My future wife was the subject of malicious gossip before I married her or knew her well, from some “friends.” If I had accepted their concerns without question I would not have married her. Thank God I checked the sources and confronted a few people. Nothing turned out to be even close to what my “friends” intimated. That was a very salutary lesson for me.

So why don’t people want to do the spade work to at least make a respectable decision on the “real” evidence to hand rather than be misled by the static of life? I don’t know .
Maybe it is something to do with hope (or the absence thereof).

Or maybe you have to get hurt first before it sinks in that truth is not casual and you have to want it. That is the lesson I learnt in recent years.

 

[brumano]

I have no idea where you are coming from; most of this post of yours is, to put it as charitably as I can, in error. I will not address these errors point by point except to say Sr. Lucia loved the Church and the pope; she never said anything about 3 more popes.

You might want to read Sr. Lucia’s memoirs.

God bless you.

Thank you for being charitable, I know she loved the church and the Pope. God Bless you too, I realize I can be error or erroneously misunderstood.

 

[Clare2412]

Just bear in mind the Church has not declared the so-called relic of the True Cross as being genuine. St Helena visited the Holy Land several hundred years after the death of Christ and there is absolutely no way, even for the Church, to verify the authenticity of that piece of wood.

I think you will find that I qualified what I wrote as “pious tradition.” There are many things on which the Church has not, and probably will never, pronounce a verdict. The relics of the Cross are one of these.

Via con Dios!
Clare

 

[beehumble]

Thank you for being charitable, I know she loved the church and the Pope. God Bless you too, I realize I can be error or erroneously misunderstood.

It’s all good!

God bless!

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Viewers may be interested in the very recent photo of “The Pines” (16th December, 2012) near sunrise.

This is where the “permanent sign that can be seen but not touched” will remain if the alleged Miracle takes place. As Conchita is to announce it a few days beforehand (she knows the date) that suggests it will occur in her lifetime. She is approximately 63 at the time of this photo.

Note that Garabandal village is below in the shade. The surrounding hills to the right of the picture form a natural ampitheatre capable of holding hundreds of thousands of persons.

The appallingly steep (in places) and incredibly rocky path up to the pines still exists. However a much more gentle approach has recently been completed - the final concrete path can be seen entering the grove from the right of the photo.

 

[thistle]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_0bZ1KPLegkk/SVQoEeMVvjI/AAAAAAAAMlw/Yxp7DLpArIY/s400/pharisees2.gif
**Forum Police **

There we go again… :crying: is there anything in this forum that we may believe in without the blessing of the Forum Police? And to think that thousands of “naive” devout pilgrims from all over Europe who have been stopping there to venerate the Relics since the sixth Century have been wrong and blind to the “logic” and* “truth”* that only exists in this Forum.

Maybe we should blame Our Lord for allowing in His salvific plan the existence of all these relics and not leaving us proper documentation for each one of them.

I repeat that the Church has not and will not declare the piece of wood as a genuine piece of the True Cross, as it has not and will not do with any alleged ancient “relic” because there were far too many fakes around. If you wish to believe it to be true that is your right as is my right and any other Catholic not to believe it and I don’t.
In my personal opinion some people get too hung up on relics and apparitions! I have never needed either to strengthen my faith.

 

[beehumble]

In my personal opinion some people get too hung up on relics and apparitions! I have never needed either to strengthen my faith.

In my opinion some people get too hung up on people who appreciate relics and apparitions. Since it is God Who allows both, to strengthen faith, I guess you can take your concerns to Him.

God bless you.

 

[thistle]

In my opinion some people get too hung up on people who appreciate relics and apparitions. Since it is God Who allows both, to strengthen faith, I guess you can take your concerns to Him.

God bless you.

Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magesterium give me all I need for my faith. If someone needs more then their faith must be pretty weak.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magesterium give me all I need for my faith. If someone needs more then their faith must be pretty weak.

Thistle I think the Pharisees of old would totally agree with you.
The Old Testament, the sacred tradition of the Elders and their Council gave them all they needed for their faith.
They didn’t need to follow the rabble and go chasing after the Jesus phenomenon. Boy the faith of those who followed after Jesus must have been pretty weak.
Don’t they look silly now.

Come on … have the good grace to smile, you can do it

Yes, some of us are weak, I don’t understand why that offends you. I thought that was why Jesus came in the first place .

 

[Clare2412]

“There we go again… is there anything in this forum that we may believe in without the blessing of the Forum Police?”

“In my personal opinion some people get too hung up on relics and apparitions! I have never needed either to strengthen my faith.”

Friends, this exchange is neither helpful nor charitable. Please remember that Jesus said that the world would know his followers by the love they demonstrated.

The Church doesn’t require the faithful to believe in relics or apparitions, but neither does She forbid it. Let us remember all that we share as Catholics - the dogmas and doctrine of the Church, the sacred Scriptures and the liturgy, the Holy Father to lead us, the Communion of Saints to inspire us and pray for us and the Magisterium to guide us - and allow our co-religionists to choose to take advantage, or not, of the many optional aids and manifestations of our faith that the Church permits without condeming or ridiculing.

If someone is in true error, then we are called to offer fraternal correction, but we must speak the truth in love. If we are uncertain, we should turn to our fellow members of the CAF and humbly ask for guidance. And we should try at all times to avoid anything that could be interpreted as scoring points off one another, or causing deliberate hurt or embarrasment. These are manifestations of the deadly sin of pride and are not rooted in the love we are called to live.

Let us try to follow Him who said He was meek and humble of heart, who said that He came not to be served, but to serve. And please let us use this forum to help and support one another on the narrow and difficult path that leads to salvation.

Via con Dios!
Clare

 

[saveusfromhell]

Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magesterium give me all I need for my faith. If someone needs more then their faith must be pretty weak.

Jesus gave Veronica the counterance of his image on the way to the calvary.

 

[Edward_Henry]

“Friends, this exchange is neither helpful nor charitable. Please remember that Jesus said that the world would know his followers by the love they demonstrated.”

Agreed

“If someone is in true error, then we are called to offer fraternal correction, but we must speak the truth in love. If we are uncertain, we should turn to our fellow members of the CAF and humbly ask for guidance. And we should try at all times to avoid anything that could be interpreted as scoring points off one another, or causing deliberate hurt or embarrasment. These are manifestations of the deadly sin of pride and are not rooted in the love we are called to live. .”

Once again,

“Let us try to follow Him who said He was meek and humble of heart, who said that He came not to be served, but to serve. And please let us use this forum to help and support one another on the narrow and difficult path that leads to salvation .”

Double

Thank you Clare, and Vaya con Dios!

 

[Clare2412]

Thank you, Edward Henry, for your gentle correction.

Vaya con Dios!
Clare

 

[BobCatholic]

Friends, this exchange is neither helpful nor charitable.

Amen.

Some people have fun trolling. I think it is disgusting and has no place on a Catholic board. It is best not to feed the trolls. I recommend that people put the trolls on ignore and move on to more constructive discussions.

[SIGN]Please do not feed the trolls.[/SIGN]

 

[beehumble]

BTW the story that the Virgin actually said 4 (“but one doesn’t count”) appears to be apochryphal. I believe it is quoted from Weber’s German book “Finger of God” which I have seen “quoted” on other matters which proved to be erroneous (or not even in that book).

BTW I had a chat with Loli’s sister (Amalia) on this point only 3 weeks ago. She was adamant Conchita said “three”. She would not elucidate or interpret any further and I was impressed she stuck to the facts even though she knows many, like Thistle, find it a point of contradiction.

hmmm… there is another source for the ‘four popes’ quote besides Weber. According to a Greg Rolla, who wrote a book on Garabandal, the three vs. four popes statement was from the book by Jacques Serre & Beatrice Caux, Gaarabandal: Appraitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary as Our Lady of Mount Carmel, Vol. 1, "From Beauty to Truthfulness," p. 160, in which

they quote a December 20, 1962 statement by Conchita which says:

“After Pope John [XXIII] there will come three other popes and after…there will be no more. No, four, for one of them would not really count, the Blessed Virgin told me!”

And they say later in the book (I do not have this book so I am taking this second/third hand) Conchita clarified that she did not mean there would be no more popes after the fourth one.

Their resources were independent of Weber’s book, but Weber later confirmed the source in his own book published in the 1990s.

I myself agree with you and would go with Loli’s sister Amalia on this point.

But it is confusing!!

God bless you.