Garabandal Status?

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[they quote a December 20, 1962 statement by Conchita which says:

“After Pope John [XXIII] there will come three other popes and after…there will be no more. No, four, for one of them would not really count, the Blessed Virgin told me!”

I only came across this in the Weber book. I have been following Conchita’s statements over the years & I never saw anything mentioned about 4 popes. Anyway why would Our Lady say that one didn’t count, that doesn’t sound right. If Conchita had heard that, she would have said it at the time, but she didn’t
 
EIRCOMNET said:
[they quote a December 20, 1962 statement by Conchita which says:

“After Pope John [XXIII] there will come three other popes and after…there will be no more. No, four, for one of them would not really count, the Blessed Virgin told me!”

I only came across this in the Weber book. I have been following Conchita’s statements over the years & I never saw anything mentioned about 4 popes. Anyway why would Our Lady say that one didn’t count, that doesn’t sound right. If Conchita had heard that, she would have said it at the time, but she didn’t
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The book in addition to the Weber book is cited above, with page number and date of the statement.

As for ‘one wouldn’t count’ - that is Conchita speaking, not Blessed Mary who of course regards all peoples and all popes - it is a young Conchita’s paraphrasing how she understood it.

I am not sure about this statement in that book (I don’t have the book so cannot verify it, nor see the complete context surrounding the statement, or the person who told this to the author.)

What raises suspicion of the statement being made up out of whole cloth, is this:

The date of December 1962 is attributed to the statement of four popes. Pope John XXIII died in June, 1963, six months later.

One would think this statement about there only being four more popes would have been shockingly big news in Dec 1962 and that it would have spread like wildfire to the whole village in days if not hours. Even today it is a shocking statement.

So the whole village should have known about it before Pope John died.

So why, when Pope John died and the bells were ringing and Conchita commented that only three more popes remain now, her mother, hearing Conchita, was shocked and proceeded to question Conchita about it? Her mother and all the villagers should have *already * known this six months prior and hence not have to ask Conchita all about it when the Pope died.

So again, I go with Loli’s sister Amalia on this point. I am very suspicious this four popes thing attributed to Conchita is true. Notice too that it is virtually NEVER talked about and appeared only in a later Weber book, and in an older obscure book. With all that has been said about Garabandal over the years, one would think this extremely important “nugget” would have been discussed ad infinitum just like the ‘three popes’ version has been.

God bless you.
 
I know we’re focusing on the “popes” part of it right now, but something else which would be helpful to keep in mind :

Trying to prove as false (or to verify) any private revelation according as to whether a particular chastisement comes to pass is really missing the point : Genuine cautions of impending chastisements are always conditional and meant to call us to conversion - because God is merciful . What were the words from chapter 3 of the Book of Jonah again from yesterday’s readings ?
“Who knows ? God may relent and change his mind ; He may turn from his fierce anger , so that we do not perish.”
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Ezekiel 33:11
Answer them: As I live, says the Lord GOD, I swear I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked man, but rather in the wicked man’s conversion, that he may live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! Why should you die, O house of Israel?
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beehumble said:
hmmm… there is another source for the ‘four popes’ quote besides Weber. According to a Greg Rolla, who wrote a book on Garabandal, the three vs. four popes statement was from the book by Jacques Serre & Beatrice Caux, Gaarabandal: Appraitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary as Our Lady of Mount Carmel, Vol. 1, "From Beauty to Truthfulness," p. 160, in which

they quote a December 20, 1962 statement by Conchita which says:

“After Pope John [XXIII] there will come three other popes and after…there will be no more. No, four, for one of them would not really count, the Blessed Virgin told me!”

And they say later in the book (I do not have this book so I am taking this second/third hand) Conchita clarified that she did not mean there would be no more popes after the fourth one.

Their resources were independent of Weber’s book, but Weber later confirmed the source in his own book published in the 1990s.

I myself agree with you and would go with Loli’s sister Amalia on this point.

But it is confusing!!

God bless you.
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Thanks for this BeeHumble. I like to look into these things. I have come across one or two whoppa’s that are provably wrong. For example, some less recent publications (eg those of one “Thomas Fahy”) state that at Fatima during the final “cameo” appearances of Our Lady (dressed as OLO Mt Carmel) she said “Goodbye until we meet gain at San Sebastian.” The footnote referred to a very old book in Spanish. I eventually got a 2nd-hand copy of that 80 page book and there was nothing of the sort in it whatsoever! Chinese whispers.

Yes, I still go with Amalia and all the early sources which appear unanimous on the matter.

Having said that, after Pope Benedict resigns it is troubling that nothing has really explicitly happened in his reign that clearly and strongly suggests “the end of times” having begun.

Yes I know there is allegedly more earthquakes and natural disasters and extremes of weather and the strife in Egypt and Syria. And of course the world continues to morally go to hell in a handcart. But how much of this is just increased perception rather than reality? With all our internet and instantaneous connections, mobile cameras and vids that sweep up every speck of evil in the world and put it on youtube etc.

I try and lead a good life and pray the rosary every day for the world, I am sure you guys do to. What will come will come 👍.
 
Edward_Henry said:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Lignum-crucis.jpg

That is correct, but it seems like you had a heavenly tour director guiding your pilgrimage. And when He gets involved, unexpected things happen. Sounds like you had a very special pilgrimage. If you are ever in the region again, you may also want to visit:
The Miraculous Crucifix in the Shrine of Limpias **** 🙂

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...na_limpias.jpg/800px-Iglesia_sena_limpias.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sD9B1-URs...W7-4sj90/s1600/Jesus-Christ-Limpias-Spain.jpg

It is a tremendous gift from God!

I will have to visit the St. Michael chapel next time! Thanks. 👍
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:)🙂
 
Fascinating thread. Not sure what the guidelines are on this discussion, I’ve kept up with it for years.
 
EIRCOMNET said:
[they quote a December 20, 1962 statement by Conchita which says:

“After Pope John [XXIII] there will come three other popes and after…there will be no more. No, four, for one of them would not really count, the Blessed Virgin told me!”

I only came across this in the Weber book. I have been following Conchita’s statements over the years & I never saw anything mentioned about 4 popes. Anyway why would Our Lady say that one didn’t count, that doesn’t sound right. If Conchita had heard that, she would have said it at the time, but she didn’t
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As far as I know, there was only ever mention of “three popes” not four.

In any case, I think that many have read too much into this “three popes” prophecy, seeing implications that are not implied.

As I understand the “three popes” prophecy, the reference is to the end of the times (or end of the era). It would have commenced either at the end of PJPII or during the current Pontiff’s reign.

In any case, Conchita did not even know what that prophecy meant and it would be a mistake to say that some visible event must coincide with the time frame of the “three popes” prophecy. That would be reading too much into that prophecy.

Perhaps this prophecy of the “end of the times” corresponds somehow to then Cardinal Karol Wojtyla’s 1978 statement that:

“We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of the American society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel and the anti-Gospel. This confrontation lies within the plans of divine providence. It is a trial which the whole Church… must take up.”
 
Common sense that you can stick a fork into Garabandal: Its done, over

As someone else noted on a different site:
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I don't know what the big fuss about Joey dying is all about. Have you all OVERLOOKED the fact that Conchita was SURPRISED when Padre Pio died? She is the one who SUPPOSEDLY knows the DATE of the Miracle. DATE would include the YEAR. He was already in His 70's. Did She really expect He was going to live to be around 130 years old?
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Padre Pio was born in 1887, died in 1968 at 81 years old.

Although the warning is part of Catholic prophecy namely through St Edmund Campion and Anna Marie Taigi , St. Faustina and perhaps others, however the miracle associated with this warning through Garabandal has no counterpart in the many approved saints, venerables and blessed seers. I do expect a warning for our time or perhaps another time, however I do not expect the “miracle”.
 
While some followers may have believed that the alleged prophecies wrt Joey and Padre Pio were central…in reality these alleged “prophecies” were little more than “one line” statements from one visionary in the whole 4 years from what I can see.

Conchita may well have misunderstood and misreported the response of her Apparition.
That by itself doesn’t strongly mean the main prophecies and message (well reported and repeated many times wrt the Warning, the Miracle and the possible Correction) is also a crock.

Time will tell soon, it certainly has to be within the potential lifetime of Conchita if it is to happen.
 
Although the warning is part of Catholic prophecy namely through St Edmund Campion and Anna Marie Taigi , St. Faustina and perhaps others, however the miracle associated with this warning through Garabandal has no counterpart in the many approved saints, venerables and blessed seers.

I do expect a warning for our time or perhaps another time, however I do not expect the “miracle”. There is no prophetic consensus for the miracle. More so, Garabandal has many significant strikes against it–death of Padre Pio, death of Joey Lomangino. Perhaps all that is left of those well informed are those with “faith” in an apparition…those with a burning in their bosom when they think of Garabandal.
 
Why do are so many drawn to unapproved aspirations and the message? The America has the first fully approved Marian aspiration (Our Lady of Good Help) in our back door. For me? I will relay on our Church to approve or not approve any Marian aspiration.

Peace on Earth
 
Beeline said:
Although the warning is part of Catholic prophecy namely through St Edmund Campion and Anna Marie Taigi , St. Faustina and perhaps others, however the miracle associated with this warning through Garabandal has no counterpart in the many approved saints, venerables and blessed seers.

I do expect a warning for our time or perhaps another time, however I do not expect the “miracle”. There is no prophetic consensus for the miracle. More so, Garabandal has many significant strikes against it–death of Padre Pio, death of Joey Lomangino. Perhaps all that is left of those well informed are those with “faith” in an apparition…those with a burning in their bosom when they think of Garabandal.
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The death of Padre Pio has no negative effect as far as I ( and a lot of other people ) are concerned.
When Conchita found out Padre Pio died in Sept. 1968, she met his close friend, Father Bernardino Cennamo, at Lourdes, and asked him, “How is it that Our Lady told me Padre Pio would see the Miracle and he has died?” Father Cenammo responded, "Padre Pio saw the Miracle before he died. He told me himself."The priest gave Conchita one of the three veils that covered Padre Pio’s face during his wake, saying that the stigmatist had requested this before he died. He told her truthfully that he personally did not believe in the authenticity of Garabandal until Padre Pio requested this of him. Conchita also was given Padre Pio’s rosary, and one of the gloves he wore, stained by his stigmata. She has these treasures preserved at her home in New York.
I think it speaks volumes that SAINT Pio would leave Conchita these 3 treasured and rare personal items.
 
jmjconder said:
Why do are so many drawn to unapproved aspirations and the message? The America has the first fully approved Marian aspiration (Our Lady of Good Help) in our back door. For me? I will relay on our Church to approve or not approve any Marian aspiration.

Peace on Earth
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I think many are drawn to Garabandal in particular because of several reasons. First, Mary appeared over 2000 times over 4 years,so just the length of her visitations , and the miraculous events there,attracted many to listen to what she was saying. Secondly, not only were her two main messages of repentence, of great importance to the world, but MORE importantly she stressed getting back to changing our daily lives with confession, mass, communion, the rosary.
Many also were drawn by the support of Pope Paul VI, Pope John Paul II, Padre Pio, and Mother Teresa, and the promise of the Warning & especially the " MIracle" to come.
 
jmjconder said:
Why do are so many drawn to unapproved aspirations and the message? The America has the first fully approved Marian aspiration (Our Lady of Good Help) in our back door. For me? I will relay on our Church to approve or not approve any Marian aspiration.

Peace on Earth
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Let me explain why there was so much confusion in the early days over the validity of the apparitions. It starts with a BIASED COMMISSION.

1st- The Commission was dead set against approving this apparition from day one ! Did you know that the very priest who they sent to investigate, came back a believer,and then RESIGNED ! When that didn’t work, they sent doctors, but the doctors were dumb founded as to how the girls in ecstasy were impervious to pain ! They were burned with matches, stuck with needles, pinched, has sand thrown in their eyes (but didn’t blink) darn near torture ! But they too failed to explain this as a “natural event” or the girls imagination. Now the Commission is so mad, they even REFUSE the testimony OF POLICE CIVIL GUARDS. The worst part, they REFUSED to interview A SINGLE PERSON ! HOW CAN YOU CALL THIS A VALID INVESTIGATION WHEN THEY NEVER INTERVIEWED THE GIRLS , their parents, family, friends, other villagers ??? There were hundreds of eye witnesses who begged to testify, and they would not hear them for fear of convincing the public it WAS TRUE ! So when the original Bishop’s finding is not favorable for approval, many lost interest in Garabandal and worse yet, our Blessed Mother’s messages.

2nd- Now add the second message of the Blessed Mother that said "Many cardinals, many bishops and many priests are on the road to perdition and are taking many souls with them " WOW, so the very people in charge of the investigation, are being called out by Mary, and they don’t like being "knocked off their pedestal " of reverence in the peoples eyes. And you wonder why the approval did not happen then.

Thank God, that the likes of Pope Paul VI, Padre Pio, kept hope alive because of their belief in the early days, or this would have been dead and buried. As the evidence mounted that Mary was appearing, the best that they could do is say that the apparitions were " Non-constat de supernaturalitate ] that " It is not certain ]that the events are of supernatural origin. ". Until Joey Lomangino went to confession to Padre Pio ,and came back to America and started his apostolate,it was not getting the recognition it deserved. Once Conchita was summoned to the Vatican and interviewed ,they had realized the “Commission” was mistaken, but didn’t want to embarrass the local Bishop ,so they wisely held final judgment until the date of the Miracle arrives. Only then will they pronounce their decision.
 
Garabandalguy banned already?

I dont post much here due to it not being an experts forum, but much more where the herds
run wild, and where people without knowledge but an opinion weigh in on pretty much everything.

Its much more a social menagerie than a place to find catholic answers.
 
dean24us said:
Thanks to everyone for the replies! While informative, I was hoping for more insight in to the Church’s position on the matter. I’ve read several sources on the Internet, all of which cite apparently authoritative sources in the Church, but claim different statuses of Garabandal. Generally speaking, they fall in to one of the following:
  • Some sources that say Garabandal is condemned and is to be suppressed
  • Some say it is not condemned and might be credible, but the Church is awaiting some
    future event to come to pass to “test” the predictions.
  • Others say it has been approved by the local bishop and is simply awaiting approval by the Church’s hierarchy.
So, which of the above is the correct? Is there any authoritative documents to support one position over the other?

Again, I want to reiterate that I am asking for information on the Church’s stance, not individual beliefs on Garabandal. In other words, I’m not asking for debate on the merits for/against Garamandal, but rather the Church’s “official position”.

P.S. (for the moderators): I don’t believe that asking for information regarding the Church’s position is against CAF rules. However, if I’m wrong, please delete this thread and accept my apologies. 🙂

God bless,
Dean
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If by “The Church” you mean the Vatican…then it has said absolutely nothing re the status of Garabandal officially.

However, in the case of alleged apparitions the first responsibility for making a judgement lies with the Local Ordinary. That is where it has always been at and the Vatican has repeatedly advised enquirers that it is content to leave judgements, at the moment, in the hands of the Local Ordinary.

So what does the LO say?
Officially it has only three choices.
And the one it has repeatedly given is that there is not yet any definitive evidence of supernatural intervention.

In other words the jury is still out.
No doubt it will be until the three prophecies are vindicated or not.
We should know in the next few years as it looks to be in Conchita’s lifetime if it is true.

Does it matter?
Lets live the message and all will be well regardless.
(ie we must all lead good lives and pray and make many sacrifices for if the world does not change very hard times will come upon us).

If the miracles come all the better.
 
EIRCOMNET said:
Hi, you might be interested in the interview given by the late Bishop del Val who served on the original Garabandal Commission. J.

garabandal.org/vigil/interview.shtml
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This interview is more than 20 years old. He mentioned the documents are with the CDF. I don’t want to scroll back through all 300+ posts in this thread but I’m sure the CDF supported the local Bishops declaration that there is no evidence of anything supernatural at Garabandal.
 
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