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aball1035
Guest
In Matthew 16:18, this confuses me. Shouldn’t it be “forces” of Hell? Gates don’t really move, and can’t prevail against something. What’s the Greek (or Aramaic) here?
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Garyjohn2
Guest
Good question! I’m not entirely sure, but I think the gates of hell is where the denziens of hell would usher forth from. So maybe that is what he are trying to imply.
Like, “the gates of Mordor will not prevail against us” to use a silly comparision, to imply the gates, the main place, the entrance and opening, will not prevail.
I think “forces” would make more sense though. I wonder what the literal translation is…
Like, “the gates of Mordor will not prevail against us” to use a silly comparision, to imply the gates, the main place, the entrance and opening, will not prevail.
I think “forces” would make more sense though. I wonder what the literal translation is…
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colmcille1
Guest
Yes, good question and I agree with the above poster. It’s no the gates as such, its the eruption of sin-carrying demons from said gates that will not prevail.Good question! I’m not entirely sure, but I think the gates of hell is where the denziens of hell would usher forth from. So maybe that is what he are trying to imply.
Like, “the gates of Mordor will not prevail against us” to use a silly comparision, to imply the gates, the main place, the entrance and opening, will not prevail.
I think “forces” would make more sense though. I wonder what the literal translation is…
God Bless,
Colmcille1.
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Apollos
Guest
The Greek is πύλαι, pulai, gates. Right, gates don’t move. The Church does, and it’s banging through those gates, and the gates are giving way.
When I was young I used to think the rectangular objects on which Jesus is standing in the icon of the Harrowing of Hell were the busted-down gates of hell. I later learned that they were just the lids of Adam and Eve’s coffins. But I like my previous misinterpretation better
Did you know that the gates of hell are locked from the inside?
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Garyjohn2
Guest
That’s right! I remember hearing a priest speak on the radio about this verse, and he seems to infer that it is referring to the church attacking the gates…not the other way around! I completely forgot about this, thanks for the reminder!The Greek is πύλαι, pulai, gates. Right, gates don’t move. The Church does, and it’s banging through those gates, and the gates are giving way.
When I was young I used to think the rectangular objects on which Jesus is standing in the icon of the Harrowing of Hell were the busted-down gates of hell. I later learned that they were just the lids of Adam and Eve’s coffins. But I like my previous misinterpretation better
Did you know that the gates of hell are locked from the inside?
We seem to automatically think that hell is attacking and we are on the defensive. Not so! We are on the offensive, and the gates of hell will not prevail! It makes a little more sense thinking of it that way.
Very nice.
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nickybr38
Guest
I love this imagery!!!That’s right! I remember hearing a priest speak on the radio about this verse, and he seems to infer that it is referring to the church attacking the gates…not the other way around! I completely forgot about this, thanks for the reminder!
We seem to automatically think that hell is attacking and we are on the defensive. Not so! We are on the offensive, and the gates of hell will not prevail! It makes a little more sense thinking of it that way.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
In the past, until I think the medieval era, gates are very important. Every major city would be walled and the only way to enter in and out are the gates. When an opposing army attacks a city, they will try to seize the gates, because its the only way to conquer that city is to take control of a gate, open it, and let your army in.
So saying that the Gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church means that the Church itself has power over death. The Church will be able to conquer Hell, which is Sin and Death.
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JRRTFAN
Guest
This is exactly right! All my life, and I am a pre-VCII Catholic, it was presented as the “gates of hell” are coming against the church, even some of the C A apologists present this view (I have emailed them about it in discussion) but the very orthodox Fr. Matthew Kauth of “Catholic Scripture Study” fame opened my eyes in his lecture on Matt 6.That’s right! I remember hearing a priest speak on the radio about this verse, and he seems to infer that it is referring to the church attacking the gates…not the other way around! I completely forgot about this, thanks for the reminder!
We seem to automatically think that hell is attacking and we are on the defensive. Not so! We are on the offensive, and the gates of hell will not prevail! It makes a little more sense thinking of it that way.
“When did you ever attack somebody with a gate? How can you attack with a gate? This means that the Church is constantly assailing hell and that hell can not prevail against the Church.” The gates are not attacking the Church.
This is a good example of not comparing the symbolism being conveyed to what the symbolism means.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
I think its one symbolism for Christianity expanding to where pagans where and there’s nothing the devil can do to stop it.
Also the earlier symbolism about conquering death and sin.
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
I have always taken it to mean that the good guys are the ones on the offense, not that bad guys.
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FaithJoy
Guest
I think it has a lot to do with God’s ability to be in control. Jesus, being here on earth at the time, and there after, has contained hell behind gates of restraint by His power. Implying that, without Him and His church, gates wouldn’t be there. That was another way to say that Jesus and the Father are one.Meaning , They both have the power and the glory, one God.
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NHInsider
Guest
The setting of this scene is significant - Jesus and the Apostles had gone to Caesarea Philippi - this was pretty far from their usual territory, presumably the Lord took them there for a reason. And what was there? An enormous rock formation, on which had been constructed a temple to Caesar. And in the rock, an opening, filled with water - an apparently bottomless chasm, which was known as the Gates of Hades. It was an ancient site of pagan sacrifice, back to the time of the pre-Israel Canaanites - living sacrificial animals - and possibly humans - were tossed into the chasm -if they disappeared it meant the gods had accepted the sacrifice.
So Jesus takes the Apostles there, and against that backdrop, announces that He is renaming Simon as “Rock,” and on that Rock He will build His Church (contrast the Temple on the rock) and the Gates of Hell (see nearby site of pagan worship) will not prevail against it.
Interestingly, the water that flows beneath the rock forms the headwaters of the Jordan river.
It’s worth a google images search - here’s just one site with very nice photographs (scroll down as Caesarea Philippi is the last site on the page).
So Jesus takes the Apostles there, and against that backdrop, announces that He is renaming Simon as “Rock,” and on that Rock He will build His Church (contrast the Temple on the rock) and the Gates of Hell (see nearby site of pagan worship) will not prevail against it.
Interestingly, the water that flows beneath the rock forms the headwaters of the Jordan river.
It’s worth a google images search - here’s just one site with very nice photographs (scroll down as Caesarea Philippi is the last site on the page).
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colmcille1
Guest
Apollos,The Greek is πύλαι, pulai, gates. Right, gates don’t move. The Church does, and it’s banging through those gates, and the gates are giving way.
When I was young I used to think the rectangular objects on which Jesus is standing in the icon of the Harrowing of Hell were the busted-down gates of hell. I later learned that they were just the lids of Adam and Eve’s coffins. But I like my previous misinterpretation better
Did you know that the gates of hell are locked from the inside?
Thank you for clearing up my confusion on this too!
God Bless,
Colmcille1.
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