Gather Us In hymn

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No. The opening lyrics of Gather Us In “the rich and the haughty”. I referenced Gregorian Chant as something in addition to the music I enjoy because another post mentioned they enjoyed Gregorian Chant as well. I was stating 2 different things not related to each other. Peace be with you
 
no it makes me uncomfortable because I feel like I’m at Woodstock in the 60s
 
If the hymns aren’t an important part of the Mass, then why does nearly every Catholic parish in the U.S. spend money on hymnals with hymns from many different time periods and of many different styles, and with all their verses?

I said earlier in this thread–if the hymns are just “fillers,” then don’t use them. Chant is an option, but as I have said, it’s not likely that many congregations have enough people who are willing to learn them, and Gregorian chant was never meant for an entire congregation to sing.

So use choruses. Short, and can be repeated until they are no longer needed. And easy to play and sing. And many of them are based on the Psalms, so no more “banal” words focused on “me” and “I” instead of God.

I’m just having a hard time believing that the hymns are so unimportant in the Mass because it makes no sense that parishes spend so much money on big hymnals full of hymns that aren’t important. This doesn’t make sense.

What DOES make sense to me is that the 4 verses used to be sung in their entirety when the Masses (OF) were full of people and it really did take a long time for the various parts of the Mass to be completed. E.g., the Offertory hymn–at one time not that long ago, there was no such thing as automatic withdrawal, so pretty much every parishioner had to dig into their wallet or purse or pocket to find their offering, and drop it into the plate or basket, and this took long enough that all verses of the Offertory hymn could be completed. Same for Holy Communion–from what I read on these forums, the EMHCs were used sparingly in the past, and that means that all the verses of the Communion hymn could be sung. And even the Processional Hymn–back in the day, when parishes had several priests and lots of altar boys–it probably took them a long time to process to the sanctuary, and that means that the organist could play a nice introduction, the congregation could sing threeverses, the organist could play a thrilling improvisation, and then transpose up to the next key for the final verse of the hymn!

I’ve seen this in Big City Catholic Churches that have a lot of tourists–the music is most certainly very important, and the organist is highly skilled and plays with zest, and the congregation–members and all the visitors, put their hearts into the hymns–it feels like heaven!! People don’t want it to end because they are at Mass to experience the Glory of God and Catholics are there to receive Jesus, Truly Present in the Eucharist!

Once agaid, the idea that the hymns are not important makes no sense. Mass is supposed to be “heaven come down to earth,” and the Bible and Sacred Tradition make it clear that heaven is filled with music. To blow off the hymns here on earth demonstrates a lack of understanding where we are and WHO is there with us, Truly Present.
 
http://www.ccwatershed.org/hymns/replacing_Mass_propers_with_hymns/

“What must be sung is the Mass, its Ordinary and Proper, not “something”, no matter how consistent, that is imposed on the Mass. Because the liturgical service is one, it has only one countenance, one motif, one voice, the voice of the Church. To continue to replace the texts of the Mass being celebrated with motets that are reverent and devout, yet out of keeping with the Mass of the day amounts to continuing an unacceptable ambiguity: it is to cheat the people. Liturgical song involves not mere melody, but words, text, thought and the sentiments that the poetry and music contain. Thus texts must be those of the Mass, not others, and singing means singing the Mass not just singing during Mass. (Original emphasis.)
—1969 response to an inquiry by the Consilium (group of bishops and experts set up by Pope Paul VI to implement the Constitution on the Liturgy)”
 

Library : Propers or

Propers or
www.catholicculture.org www.catholicculture.org

“The propers, after all, have been around for centuries, indeed the great majority of the history of the Church. By the eighth century, each one had its particular place in the liturgical year. It seems then that they ought to be fostered with the greatest of care. Before they can be implemented, however, there must be an understanding as to why they ought to occupy so prominent a place in our liturgical life.”
 
https://stmarkcatholicchurch.com/singing-the-mass-vs-singing-at-mass/

Most of us would agree that music is an important part of worship. The Second Vatican Council declared the Church’s music tradition “greater even than that of any other art.” St. Augustine once said, “he who sings praise, not only sings, but also loves Him whom he is singing about.” This is why we sing – it is an artistic form of vocal prayer, and an expression of our love for God.

If we understand why we sing, shouldn’t we also strive to understand what and when to sing? This is the distinction between simply “singing the Mass” and “singing at Mass.” The Second Vatican Council went on to say, “sacred song closely bound to the text …forms a necessary or integral part of the solemn liturgy. Sacred music will be the more holy the more closely it is joined to the liturgical rite .” (Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, #112).
 
www.davidmaresmusic.com

Build a Great Repertoire and Don't Fight Liturgical Style Wars — David Mares

Forming a Musical Repertoire for Mass Musical style for Mass always seems to be a tension in our parishes and dioceses. Many Catholics come to Mass with an expectation of a particular style, disappointed if their expectations are not met. Some even avoid certain Masses or churches based on their mu
www.davidmaresmusic.com www.davidmaresmusic.com

The next step in our liturgies is to create a foundation of Catholic music that is prayed all over the world. Why? The word “Catholic” means “universal”, so we need cornerstone pieces of music that are truly universal, meaning they stand the test of time and change in culture. There is something so powerful when people gather from all over the world and are able to sing and pray together in a common language. I experienced this in Rome being able to sing the Ordinary of the Mass in Latin, and many experience this at events like World Youth Day. Every generation has their own music, but our gift to the next generation is maintaining this foundation. We should learn how to pray this music.
 

These proper antiphons and their psalm verses are taken from scripture and not only “tie into” the Mass for the day, but are actually part of the Mass . These are liturgical texts! If we are going to discuss what should and should not be sung during liturgy, let’s try singing the liturgy . Arguments about organ vs. guitar, or traditional hymns vs. contemporary hymns will only go so far. After all, so much of it boils down to personal taste and experience. No one, however, can argue with the fact that the most proper thing to sing at Mass is the proper of the Mass .
 
I have never heard this song before. My first perception is it sounds like a song from some musical.
In the course of my theology studies I took a Liturgical Chant and Music class. The teacher gave us this general rule-of-a-thumb: “Remove the lyrics. Are you able to - just by the melody - recognize it is a sacred music?”. While it is not 100% precise, it serves the purpose well in the majority of cases. When I apply this rule to the hymn in question, I would never tell it is not a profane music. The lyrics also don’t refer to the Eucharist or Sacrifice- as most of the mass hymns do.
Just for an illustration, this is - I think - the most used mass processional hymn in my country (Slovakia):

The lyrics (loose translation):

You, the Lord, are in every temple - the living Bread.
We are giving you the honor by the pious song,
hear the voice of silent prayers.
Holy Mass - the sublime Sacrifice - sounds for you - the Good Lord,
Human, knowing his sinfulness, is not worthy of the Sacrifice.
…
Jesus the God’s Son offered a salvific sacrifice for us.
Who wouldn’t love him? He is taking a burden of guilt from us.
What should we offer to you - God - we, the poor people out of gratefulness?
We offer to sacrifice everything to you - the souls, the hearts, the lives.
 
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It may be good news, it may be bad news, but the latest news from London is that Gather Us In has made it through to the semifinals in the World Cup of Bad Hymns. For further details, see the Bruvver Eccles blog:

Semi-finals, beginning November 13th:

  1. Winner of A v Winner of C.
    Shine, Jesus, Shine v Lord of the dance
  2. Winner of B v Winner of D.
    Gather us in v Kumbayah
And those winners play the final on November 22nd, St Cecilia’s Day . May the worst hymn win!

ecclesandbosco.blogspot.com

Time to run screaming from the church

We've reached the knockout stage of the World Cup of Bad Hymns . Once again, some prize specimens have been eliminated, such as: I, the Lo...
ecclesandbosco.blogspot.com ecclesandbosco.blogspot.com
 
Thanks for the article.

I honestly don’t think this will happen in most parishes. Sorry, friend.

I think that Catholics who want this kind of Mass should move to where it is already established. It would be less stressful for everyone.

And I grieve for the loss of hymns. The article makes me incredibly sad and depressed. I’m so glad that I play for a Protestant church that does hymns with all their hearts. It is a bright spot in my week. I WISH I could learn to at least tolerate Latin and chant, but it’s been 14 years, and it still sets my teeth on edge. Sigh. I try really hard–I bought several CDs of Gregorian chant and just about drove myself crazy trying to like it. And I play through the Latin chants that are in our hymnal and wonder how anyone can like something so random with no melody.

It’s just not for me, friend. I would move to a different parish where hymns are sung. I have no emotional bond to my parish. I don’t really have any friends that would keep me there.

I wonder if there are other Catholics who feel the same way I do. There must be, as so many Catholics do leave the Church and music/worship is often given as one of the main reasons.

But when I read this thread and others on CAF, I get the feeling that I’m the only Catholic in the U.S. who doesn’t go ga-ga over ancient music.
 
have we made a decision on this hymn, I think its on the list for Sunday.

Christ be our light is a popular hymn in my parish.
 
The sad thing is Gregorian chant is the new covenant version of chanting in Hebrew.

I just know most young people I know do prefer ancient liturgy because we are not from the 70s.

I think it’s a generational thing maybe. The 60s and 70s were decades with a lot of social and political change.
 
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And most young people I know prefer rock/pop. I don’t know why.

And I know a lot of young people, as I chair a music competition in my state line area (13 counties), and I meet and get to know many of these young people and their friends. The competition is for classical music, BTW, and yet, the young people like rock and pop.

Guess it depends on who you hang out with, right?
 
It may be that they like rock/pop, but did they tell you that that is what they prefer at Mass? Are these kids Catholic? Did they say that they would quit going to Mass if they don’t get warmed-over pop/ “folk” songs at Mass?
 
Peeps said:
And most young people I know prefer rock/pop. I don’t know why.
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My 14-year-old son loves techno, show tunes, Japanese pop – I know, eclectic tastes.

But at mass, he’s told me he prefers chant and hymns. He mocks the happy-clappy folk-type songs we sometimes hear at our new parish, especially when it sounds like a show tune.

What people of any age prefer listening to on their phone/car/radio is not necessarily what they prefer hearing at mass.
 
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