Gay activists outraged by Vatican cardinal's condemnation of homosexual acts

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Well, it’s true. Gays are like the guy who is on oxygen but continues to smoke. He has lost control of the body that God has lended him and he is angry at the lender.
Ahh. That explains why I haven’t had sex with anyone since 1992, yet I’m still gay. Hmmmm.

I’m astounded. Are you people not happy enough with ONE thread about this same exact subject regarding what that cardinal said, but felt it necessary to have a SECOND one? I mean, isn’t it enough that you people have already made me feel like a worthless piece of **** destined to hell, but now you have to rub it in a little more?

I’m gay, people. That IS who I am. And despite that fact, I haven’t had sex with anyone in over 17 years. How many of you can truly say that? How many of you can truly know what that feels like? How many of you truly know how it feels to want someone in your life that you can love…LOVE, not have sex with…and do it with your WHOLE heart, soul, and mind? How many of you know what it’s like to want to have someone special in your lives, but you just can’t because to do so would cast you into the fires of hell? How many of you have screamed at God to take away a core part of who you are, because you just can’t deal with knowing that the rest of your life is going to feel empty and devoid of a true, emotional bond with another person?

I know this thread wasn’t started with me in mind, but it may as well have been. Everytime you open your mouths about this subject, you don’t realize you’re driving the stake deeper and deeper. But obviously you don’t give a ****, because it doesn’t affect you personally. Do me a favor…next time, tell me what wall you’d like me to line up next to, wearing a blindfold, and I’ll be sure to make sure the barrel of your rifle is full of bullets. That way it would save me the agony of watching the ground come up before my eyes as I jump off that cliff you’re all so eager to have me do.
 
Well… if you’re … transexual, then by definition you’re having these abhorrent ‘relations’ with your partner:mad:(blech!)
So by definition, any sexual relation of a transsexual woman, be it with another woman, or with a man, is abhorrent? Why?

I realise it disgusts you. Nauseates you even. Many people are equally disgusted at the thought of a relationship between a Black and a White.

But apart from your personal feelings on the matter, what theological justification is there?
 
Ahh. That explains why I haven’t had sex with anyone since 1992, yet I’m still gay. Hmmmm.

I’m astounded. Are you people not happy enough with ONE thread about this same exact subject regarding what that cardinal said, but felt it necessary to have a SECOND one? I mean, isn’t it enough that you people have already made me feel like a worthless piece of **** destined to hell, but now you have to rub it in a little more?

I’m gay, people. That IS who I am. And despite that fact, I haven’t had sex with anyone in over 17 years. How many of you can truly say that? How many of you can truly know what that feels like? How many of you truly know how it feels to want someone in your life that you can love…LOVE, not have sex with…and do it with your WHOLE heart, soul, and mind? How many of you know what it’s like to want to have someone special in your lives, but you just can’t because to do so would cast you into the fires of hell? How many of you have screamed at God to take away a core part of who you are, because you just can’t deal with knowing that the rest of your life is going to feel empty and devoid of a true, emotional bond with another person?

I know this thread wasn’t started with me in mind, but it may as well have been. Everytime you open your mouths about this subject, you don’t realize you’re driving the stake deeper and deeper. But obviously you don’t give a ****, because it doesn’t affect you personally. Do me a favor…next time, tell me what wall you’d like me to line up next to, wearing a blindfold, and I’ll be sure to make sure the barrel of your rifle is full of bullets. That way it would save me the agony of watching the ground come up before my eyes as I jump off that cliff you’re all so eager to have me do.
If it gives any comfort, there are celibate heterosexuals facing similar challenges, facing lives devoid of that emotional bond with someone special, all the while bombarded by the hyper sexuality of today’s culture. Big difference is the lack of understanding comes mainly in their case from secular quarters (pressure to conform), while in your case it seems to also come from religious quarters (stereotyping and condemnation). Hang in there. May God’s abundant grace sustain you.
 
Jesus doesn’t sit around looking for ways to damn us, but rather is always looking for ways to save us. Let’s follow His lead and leave the judgment to Him. 🙂
 
While the Cardinal is clearly speaking from Paul’s writings, he is not speaking as the Church speaks. This gets kind of sticky here.

The position of the Church has always been to identify those who are in heaven, through the process of canonization.l We have never tried to identify those who are not in heaven.

He’s not teaching heresy, but his words need to be clearly undestood that he’s quoating Paul and not judging individuals. Objectively speaking any person whose life is lived out in a grave state of sin is not going to heaven. However, there is a difference between objective observations and subjective reality. We have no idea what transpires between the soul and God. Therefore, it is not up to us to tell an individual that he’s not going to heaven. We can say that such sins preclude one from heaven: homosexual acts, adultery, abortion, murder, injustice, idolatry, etc etc. That’s the objective reality. The subjective reality is that any person in such a state of sin can access the mercy of Christ. How? Either through confession, if they have time or through sme final act of God’s mercy as the sould readies itself to leave this life.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
We can say that such sins preclude one from heaven: homosexual acts, adultery, abortion, murder, injustice, idolatry, etc etc. That’s the objective reality. The subjective reality is that any person in such a state of sin can access the mercy of Christ. How? Either through confession, if they have time or through some final act of God’s mercy as the soul readies itself to leave this life.
So what particular sin is someone born with transsexuality or another intersex condition to confess?

Br JR, that’s not a rhetorical question. If I knew just what sin it was, then maybe I could be properly penitent.

I have quite enough other sins of the usual kind, mostly of omission, on my plate. But at least I’m aware of a lot of them, and so at least have a chance of contrition.
 
He’s not teaching heresy, but his words need to be clearly undestood that he’s quoating Paul and not judging individuals.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 I assume? The KJV version anyway.
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Hence the inclusion of “trans” along with “homosexuals”.
 
So what particular sin is someone born with transsexuality or another intersex condition to confess?

Br JR, that’s not a rhetorical question. If I knew just what sin it was, then maybe I could be properly penitent.

I have quite enough other sins of the usual kind, mostly of omission, on my plate. But at least I’m aware of a lot of them, and so at least have a chance of contrition.
This is why the Church’s interpretation of the Sacred Scripture is very important. The biblical authors are writing in a very objective manner. They are listing sins and telling us that if you live in this or that sin, you will not enter the Kingdom of God. This is valid.

Equally valid is the fact that the writers cannot address every situation that may come up. They would not have completed the Sacred Scripture in their lifetime. That job falls on the Church, to answer the detailed questions or the very specific questions.

This can be applied to any act of grave sin, not just sexual sins. The Church makes some very important distinctions between culpability and sin and also between the objective state of the soul and the subjective state of the soul. Many of the great doctors of the Church tried to help the hierarchy find the right language to explain the effects of sin and the workings of grace.

To summarize it in very bried words these are the rules for the road:
  1. If the matter is gravely sinful, the person fully understands the gravity of the matter, and the person freely chooses to act, the person is culpable of serious sin. If one of the above conditions is not met, then the person is not culpable of grave sin, even though he or she may have committed the sin. There is sin and culpability. I like to offer this analogy.
You’re rushing to an emergency room. You go through the red light. You have broken the law. Are you culpable? The Church says, “no.” You did not have full control over the situation. The emergency affects the situation.
  1. Let’s look at the relationship between the sinful soul and grace. I like to use the “good thief”. He was a common thief. But through actual grace, he has an opportunity to recognize his sinfulness at the hour of his death. He takes advantage of it when he asks Christ to remember him. Through that simple prayer, “Remember me,” he receives sanctifying grace from Christ. Christ looks at his final moment of integrity, responsibility, humility and sorrow.
For this reason, the Church wrote the second half of the Hail Mary. “Pray for us, now and at the hour of our death.” We believe that up to the hour of death, God can and desires to save us. He will give us the same opportunity that he gave the thief on the cross. If we did not believe this, we would be unable to ask Mary to pray for this grace for us.

For the same reason, the Church provides the Viaticum to the dying. It is the faith of the Church that all men can be saved, if they will to accept salavation, even at the hour of death.

Therefore, we can state beyond a reasonable doubt who is in heaven. We cannot state who is not. We can, however, preach and teach about those sins that endanger the human soul. This is what Paul is doing and the Cardinal is quoting. What you don’t want to do is to tell people to wait until they’re at death’s door to convert. Because we have no idea if they will be able to do so. We simply do not know what happens at death’s door.

More clearly stated, we should always tell people that certain actions, if unforgiven can threaten their salvation. But we cannot point the finger at someone and tell them that they are not going to heaven. The Church does not point the finger at individuals, but only at sins.

If you’re in a state of sin, you should confess it. If you’re not sure, you should speak with a spiritual director. Trained spiritual directors can help you figure out the state of your soul and point you in the right direction.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
This is why the Church’s interpretation of the Sacred Scripture is very important. The biblical authors are writing in a very objective manner. They are listing sins and telling us that if you live in this or that sin, you will not enter the Kingdom of God. This is valid.

Equally valid is the fact that the writers cannot address every situation that may come up. They would not have completed the Sacred Scripture in their lifetime. That job falls on the Church, to answer the detailed questions or the very specific questions.

This can be applied to any act of grave sin, not just sexual sins. The Church makes some very important distinctions between culpability and sin and also between the objective state of the soul and the subjective state of the soul. Many of the great doctors of the Church tried to help the hierarchy find the right language to explain the effects of sin and the workings of grace.

To summarize it in very bried words these are the rules for the road:
  1. If the matter is gravely sinful, the person fully understands the gravity of the matter, and the person freely chooses to act, the person is culpable of serious sin. If one of the above conditions is not met, then the person is not culpable of grave sin, even though he or she may have committed the sin. There is sin and culpability. I like to offer this analogy.
You’re rushing to an emergency room. You go through the red light. You have broken the law. Are you culpable? The Church says, “no.” You did not have full control over the situation. The emergency affects the situation.
  1. Let’s look at the relationship between the sinful soul and grace. I like to use the “good thief”. He was a common thief. But through actual grace, he has an opportunity to recognize his sinfulness at the hour of his death. He takes advantage of it when he asks Christ to remember him. Through that simple prayer, “Remember me,” he receives sanctifying grace from Christ. Christ looks at his final moment of integrity, responsibility, humility and sorrow.
For this reason, the Church wrote the second half of the Hail Mary. “Pray for us, now and at the hour of our death.” We believe that up to the hour of death, God can and desires to save us. He will give us the same opportunity that he gave the thief on the cross. If we did not believe this, we would be unable to ask Mary to pray for this grace for us.

For the same reason, the Church provides the Viaticum to the dying. It is the faith of the Church that all men can be saved, if they will to accept salavation, even at the hour of death.

Therefore, we can state beyond a reasonable doubt who is in heaven. We cannot state who is not. We can, however, preach and teach about those sins that endanger the human soul. This is what Paul is doing and the Cardinal is quoting. What you don’t want to do is to tell people to wait until they’re at death’s door to convert. Because we have no idea if they will be able to do so. We simply do not know what happens at death’s door.

More clearly stated, we should always tell people that certain actions, if unforgiven can threaten their salvation. But we cannot point the finger at someone and tell them that they are not going to heaven. The Church does not point the finger at individuals, but only at sins.

If you’re in a state of sin, you should confess it. If you’re not sure, you should speak with a spiritual director. Trained spiritual directors can help you figure out the state of your soul and point you in the right direction.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Brother, I may be missing something here but it seems to me you have not addressed Zoe Brain’s question:
So what particular sin is someone born with transsexuality or another intersex condition to confess?
If I knew just what sin it was, then maybe I could be properly penitent
.

The Cardinal, quoting St Paul, does appear to be stating that those born intersexed or trans-sexual (we’ll leave aside the contentious issue of whether or not one is born homosexual) have no hope of heaven.
 
Brother, I may be missing something here but it seems to me you have not addressed Zoe Brain’s question:

.

The Cardinal, quoting St Paul, does appear to be stating that those born intersexed or trans-sexual (we’ll leave aside the contentious issue of whether or not one is born homosexual) have no hope of heaven.
There is nothing to confess. The person did not choose his condition. Remember, I said that the person must choose to act according to sin. If there is no choice, there is nothing to confess.

If one acts according to the condition, even when one may be born with it or may acquire it developmentally, then one confesses the action, not the condition. Having a transexual or homosexual condition is not a sin. The Church has spoken on this very clearly. She has tried to clarify what the Magisterium has been trying to say for centuries. The Magisterium has been speaking about choices that we make, not conditions that we have.

A condition may be disordered because it drives or pushes one in a direction that is contrary to nature. This does not mean that the person is disodered or that the person’s actions have to be disordered. There are circumstances whereby the person will yield to the drive of the condition. In those cases we must examine the choice. Did the person freely yield when he could have made another choice? If so, the person is culpable of the action and must confess the sin. On the other hand, did the person yield because the drive is so strong that it impairs the person’s freedom to choose in the opposite direction? This mitigates culpability.

For this reason, you always confess the action and the circumstances under which you acted. It helps the confessor understand the degree of freedom, consequently the degree of culpability. A good example would be compulsion. People with compulsions often suffer a great deal. They do things that they do not want to do. Their free will is impaired. To know for sure if you are one of those people, you should work with a spiritual director who will help you know what you need to confess and what you need to treat differently through some other means that is not confession. When the psyche or the biology is so powerful that the person is not in full control, we may be dealing with a situation that is not for the confessional, but for the therapist. Again, I cannot emphasize enough the value of a man or woman who is trained in spiritual direction. These persons are well trained in distinguishing between the moral and the emotional. It’s not the kind of work that we can do alone. It requires someone with an objective point of view. When we’re in the situation, it is difficult to be ojective.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I’m astounded. Are you people not happy enough with ONE thread about this same exact subject regarding what that cardinal said, but felt it necessary to have a SECOND one?
Off-topic response, I know, but is this the first time you’ve noticed obsessive-repetitive threads? You should visit the Social Justice forum some time, or the Politics 2009 forum, and wait for half a second while 12 threads (respectively) open up almost simulatenously about abortion and the desired public excommunication of innumerable politicians.
 
I haven’t had sex with anyone in over 17 years. How many of you can truly say that?
Well those of us who were widowed rather young, and not remarried, can say that. So can thousands of single (never-married) Catholics who have had the misfortune not to find a spouse, should they yearn for one.
How many of you can truly know what that feels like? How many of you truly know how it feels to want someone in your life that you can love…LOVE, not have sex with…and do it with your WHOLE heart, soul, and mind? How many of you know what it’s like to want to have someone special in your lives, but you just can’t because to do so would cast you into the fires of hell? How many of you have screamed at God to take away a core part of who you are, because you just can’t deal with knowing that the rest of your life is going to feel empty and devoid of a true, emotional bond with another person?
Any straight person can also feel that way, when such desires, longings, core part of themselves (i.e., to love & marry), are denied fulfillment I wonder why you feel that straight chastity is any easier or less painful than gay chastity.
 
When the psyche or the biology is so powerful that the person is not in full control, we may be dealing with a situation that is not for the confessional, but for the therapist.)
Hi Brother JR

It’s good to be in contact with you, someone who in at least one respect is my moral superior. I recognise that I could never come up to your standards of Obedience, Obedience, Obedience. I’m too full of the Sin of Pride. Not for me the “Nuremberg Defence” of “I was only following orders”. That’s not out of some virtue, quite the contrary. It’s out of sheer Pride, that in the ultimate, I’d put my own judgement, fallible though it most certainly is, over that of my superiors. I believe a certain fallen Angel did much the same.

Good job I’ve not taken a Nun’s vows. I couldn’t keep them. I’d have to say “Here I stand: I can do no other.” Not that I’m a great fan of Martin Luther.

Henry V Act 4 Scene 1
KING HENRY(Incognito)
…Methinks I could not die anywhere so contented as in the king’s company, his cause being just and his quarrel honorable.
WILLIAMS
That’s more than we know.
BATES
Ay, or more than we should seek after, for we know enough if we know we are the king’s subjects. If his cause be wrong, our obedience to the king wipes the crime of it out of us.
But I digress.

Brother JR, I’m Intersexed. Not one of the common varieties either, nor even the rare ones. One of the rarest, not one in a million, one in several million. A protandrous dichogamous pseudohermaphrodite, to be technical about it.

Dichogamy in humans is rare. Most Intersexed people may be born with an ambiguous sex, but at least it doesn’t change. Dichogamous people do, though 99% or more are protogynous. Meaning born looking female, but masculinising later. That’s rare enough, only a few thousand cases in the USA.

I was born looking unambiguously male. I just didn’t have a normal male puberty. My gender identity, my sense of self, was always female. But when you look like a footballer, not a cheerleader, there isn’t much choice. You try to be the best Man any Woman can be. All you have to do is look in the mirror to see that everyone else is right, you must be male, even if you’re imperfectly formed. I was formally diagnosed as an Intersexed male in 1985.

At age 47, I did get a puberty, partial, anomalous, but undoubtedly female. Which astonished everyone, especially me. I mean, I knew I was female, but I didn’t know I did, if you get my drift. Anyway, after lots of blood tests, ultrasounds, gene tests etc it was decided I was a severely Intersexed female. By then I didn’t look remotely male.

“biology so powerful the person is not in full control” describes it perfectly.

I did have a choice though. To get sex reassignment surgery and so become a eunuch and to have a mastectomy, to try to live as a man… but Brother JR, to be a transsexual woman, a woman with a mainly male body but mainly female brain, is utterly Hellish. It feels Perverse, Wrong, Awful. I’d escaped, I did not have the willpower to go back. I did try, subscribed to an FtoM magazine to learn techniques… but I couldn’t bring myself to even open a single issue. That may be wrong, but then, it may not be. Maybe trying to be what I wasn’t was wrong. The few other cases where that was tried resulted in severe damage to various organs too, and they’d always discontinued treatment as it was too dangerous.

I’ve attempted to get advice here and in other places. From the Church, I get “we haven’t decided yet” at best, condemnation no matter what I do at the worst. In Australia, where I live, the Church is adamant that I’m female, and to have a relationship with a woman would be sinful. In the UK, where I was born, the Church is equally adamant that I’m male, and to have a relationship with a man would be sinful. Yet neither says I’m called to celibacy, merely chastity.

I wish they’d make up their minds. Maybe I do need therapy, because I think this situation is utterly crazy, and not a little sick. Everyone’s so utterly certain I’m committing some horrible sin and am destined for perdition, they just can’t tell me what that sin is, exactly.

I’ve accepted that I deserve damnation - see Pride, sin of. For one thing, my idea of truly eternal suffering would be some place that’s beautiful, peaceful, pain-free… and where I know that others who I care about are undergoing the tortures of the damned, and there’s nothing I can do to help. If Hell exists, then so does the Almighty. And while I don’t have faith in His existence, if He does exist, then I know absolutely and beyond question that He is Just but also Merciful. That doesn’t require faith, I just know it. Gnosis. So He will allow me to ameliorate the suffering of others, to do penance, and most of all, allow me to say “Sorry” to those I’ve wronged, even in my torment.

Again I digress. I guess though that I have difficulty seeing homosexuality as being a particularly abominable sin, worse than extra-marital sex of other kinds.

No matter, thanks for all your good works, and your obvious untramelled devotion to trying to do what is right. Another area where you’re my superior.

Zoe
 
Hi Brother JR

It’s good to be in contact with you, someone who in at least one respect is my moral superior. I recognise that I could never come up to your standards of Obedience, Obedience, Obedience. I’m too full of the Sin of Pride. Not for me the “Nuremberg Defence” of “I was only following orders”. That’s not out of some virtue, quite the contrary. It’s out of sheer Pride, that in the ultimate, I’d put my own judgement, fallible though it most certainly is, over that of my superiors. I believe a certain fallen Angel did much the same.

Good job I’ve not taken a Nun’s vows. I couldn’t keep them. I’d have to say “Here I stand: I can do no other.” Not that I’m a great fan of Martin Luther.

Henry V Act 4 Scene 1
But I digress.

Brother JR, I’m Intersexed. Not one of the common varieties either, nor even the rare ones. One of the rarest, not one in a million, one in several million. A protandrous dichogamous pseudohermaphrodite, to be technical about it.

Dichogamy in humans is rare. Most Intersexed people may be born with an ambiguous sex, but at least it doesn’t change. Dichogamous people do, though 99% or more are protogynous. Meaning born looking female, but masculinising later. That’s rare enough, only a few thousand cases in the USA.

I was born looking unambiguously male. I just didn’t have a normal male puberty. My gender identity, my sense of self, was always female. But when you look like a footballer, not a cheerleader, there isn’t much choice. You try to be the best Man any Woman can be. All you have to do is look in the mirror to see that everyone else is right, you must be male, even if you’re imperfectly formed. I was formally diagnosed as an Intersexed male in 1985.

At age 47, I did get a puberty, partial, anomalous, but undoubtedly female. Which astonished everyone, especially me. I mean, I knew I was female, but I didn’t know I did, if you get my drift. Anyway, after lots of blood tests, ultrasounds, gene tests etc it was decided I was a severely Intersexed female. By then I didn’t look remotely male.

“biology so powerful the person is not in full control” describes it perfectly.

I did have a choice though. To get sex reassignment surgery and so become a eunuch and to have a mastectomy, to try to live as a man… but Brother JR, to be a transsexual woman, a woman with a mainly male body but mainly female brain, is utterly Hellish. It feels Perverse, Wrong, Awful. I’d escaped, I did not have the willpower to go back. I did try, subscribed to an FtoM magazine to learn techniques… but I couldn’t bring myself to even open a single issue. That may be wrong, but then, it may not be. Maybe trying to be what I wasn’t was wrong. The few other cases where that was tried resulted in severe damage to various organs too, and they’d always discontinued treatment as it was too dangerous.

I’ve attempted to get advice here and in other places. From the Church, I get “we haven’t decided yet” at best, condemnation no matter what I do at the worst. In Australia, where I live, the Church is adamant that I’m female, and to have a relationship with a woman would be sinful. In the UK, where I was born, the Church is equally adamant that I’m male, and to have a relationship with a man would be sinful. Yet neither says I’m called to celibacy, merely chastity.

I wish they’d make up their minds. Maybe I do need therapy, because I think this situation is utterly crazy, and not a little sick. Everyone’s so utterly certain I’m committing some horrible sin and am destined for perdition, they just can’t tell me what that sin is, exactly.

I’ve accepted that I deserve damnation - see Pride, sin of. For one thing, my idea of truly eternal suffering would be some place that’s beautiful, peaceful, pain-free… and where I know that others who I care about are undergoing the tortures of the damned, and there’s nothing I can do to help. If Hell exists, then so does the Almighty. And while I don’t have faith in His existence, if He does exist, then I know absolutely and beyond question that He is Just but also Merciful. That doesn’t require faith, I just know it. Gnosis. So He will allow me to ameliorate the suffering of others, to do penance, and most of all, allow me to say “Sorry” to those I’ve wronged, even in my torment.

Again I digress. I guess though that I have difficulty seeing homosexuality as being a particularly abominable sin, worse than extra-marital sex of other kinds.

No matter, thanks for all your good works, and your obvious untramelled devotion to trying to do what is right. Another area where you’re my superior.

Zoe
In cases like your own I always suggest that people contact their local chancery and ask if there is someone in the dioceses who is a bio-ethicist. They have the right answers for your question. They can give you the response from a medical perspective. With that answer, you can then go forward to either a spiritual director or therapist to help you make the necessary adjustments in your own life.

In the meantime, remember that God is good and always at work.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
In cases like your own I always suggest that people contact their local chancery and ask if there is someone in the dioceses who is a bio-ethicist. They have the right answers for your question. They can give you the response from a medical perspective.
Unfortunately, the authorised Catholic bio-ethicist here is Dr Dr. Nicholas Tonti-Filipinni. His qualifications are a B.A.(Hons) and M.A. (Monash), and a Ph.D. (Melbourne) in the Department of Philosophy.

His medical knowledge can charitably be described as less than optimal. It’s not so much what he doesn’t know, as what he knows that isn’t so. He’s an extremely sound philosopher, but as a biologist… there’s no kind way of saying it.

Yes, Brother JR, tried that. Good suggestion though.

Not that I think anyone can really help here. We understand protogynous dichogamy due to 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency (5alpha-RD-2) and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-3 deficiency (17beta-HSD-3) quite well, there’s thousands of cases in the literature. But protandrous dichogamy - less so. We think there’s 6 different causes. But with less than a hundred cases worldwide, and no formal studies in the literature, sample sizes are just too small.

Meanwhile, I try to live by Isaiah 56:3-5 (and not complain too much), 1 Corinthians 13, and Matthew 22:39-40. Not that I’m Christian, but good is good.

Getting back to the topic - why are trans people - as opposed to homosexuals - singled out here?
 
Not sure what you mean…the OP quote is “transsexuals and gays…”
What I meant was, why “transsexuals and homosexuals”? Why not “bicyclists and homosexuals”, or “surfers and homosexuals” for example?
 
What I meant was, why “transsexuals and homosexuals”? Why not “bicyclists and homosexuals”, or “surfers and homosexuals” for example?
Ah…understood. I thought you were saying “trans people” were being singled out instead of “homosexuals.”

I would imagine that bicyclists and surfers were not part of it because they are completely unrelated. 😉

However, the Cardinal could have included fornicators, idolaters, the greedy, etc; since he was referencing St. Paul:

St Paul’s First Letter to the Corinthians Chapter 6 said:
9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

PS As a bicyclist, I hope there is nothing intrinsically disordered with the riding of a two-wheeled, man-powered vehicle. 😊 😛
 
Unfortunately, the authorised Catholic bio-ethicist here is Dr Dr. Nicholas Tonti-Filipinni. His qualifications are a B.A.(Hons) and M.A. (Monash), and a Ph.D. (Melbourne) in the Department of Philosophy.

His medical knowledge can charitably be described as less than optimal. It’s not so much what he doesn’t know, as what he knows that isn’t so. He’s an extremely sound philosopher, but as a biologist… there’s no kind way of saying it.

Yes, Brother JR, tried that. Good suggestion though.

Not that I think anyone can really help here. We understand protogynous dichogamy due to 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency (5alpha-RD-2) and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-3 deficiency (17beta-HSD-3) quite well, there’s thousands of cases in the literature. But protandrous dichogamy - less so. We think there’s 6 different causes. But with less than a hundred cases worldwide, and no formal studies in the literature, sample sizes are just too small.

Meanwhile, I try to live by Isaiah 56:3-5 (and not complain too much), 1 Corinthians 13, and Matthew 22:39-40. Not that I’m Christian, but good is good.

Getting back to the topic - why are trans people - as opposed to homosexuals - singled out here?
Zoe its a start…May God bless you as you carry your cross
 
I repeat from other posts I have made – we pray. We don’t judge. That is left to God.
I couldn’t agree more. Priests don’t decide who gets into heaven or sent to hell.
 
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