Gay Adoption Support

[FightingFat]

You are a Catholic, right? You should already know the answers to your questions.

Hello Mary

Well, yes I am a Catholic; at least I try to be. I also try to keep my faith alive and growing. When someone asks me a question, I don’t believe in simply quoting doctrine back (although someties I do, sometimes that’s good). I don’t think in real life these things are just black and white, the humanity creeps in and gives you something more real to consider, especially when I read the Gospel and see the clever and human way Jesus interacted with those around him with very real and human problems.

I asked this question on this thread because i am having a discussion based on this article on another forum where I am the only Catholic and these are questions that I have been asked. My answers would be that (regarding the question on love) Catholic theology would say that it is of God, but would seperate it clearly from the sex act, which it considers inherantly disordered. It would say that homosexual people are equally loved by God, if not more so, because of the burden they bear, but their path must be a celebate one. Trouble is in today’s society, celebacy is pretty much an anathema.

Regading the other question, I would have thought that other forms of sexual deviancy provide a less obvious barrier to a child growing up understanding that a family consists of a man and a woman, not two people of the same sex (ideally).

I do feel there’s a lot to be said on both these issues besides what I have posted here and wanted the benefit of the wise posters and Catholics with deeper and greater breadth of knowledge than I possess to perhaps shine some charitable light on these ideas.

The forum where I am discussing these ideas provides me with an opportunity to reach out to many people and demonstrate that Catholicism makes sense. Our faith is based on reason and is more than following a set of rules that make no sense.

At the moment a very intelligent friend considers that the Catholic agencies’ are prejudiced because I have failed so far to provide any logical defense of their stance.

What do you think? Do I have your permission to proceede?

 

[estesbob]

Can someone help me with a question please?

If gay couples are precluded from adopting by Catholic agencies because gay sex is not open to the possibility of life, why are couples that use birth control, or have oral sex, not barred from adopting?

Also, if love flows from God to man then back to God, how do we consider the genuine love that exists between some gay couples? Is it not of God?

The primary reason Homosexuals are not allowed to adopt is becuase they are living in a disorderd, sinful life. It is not right to expose children to such sexual perversion.

 

[FightingFat]

The primary reason Homosexuals are not allowed to adopt is becuase they are living in a disorderd, sinful life. It is not right to expose children to such sexual perversion.

But, in the examples I gave, are those people not living an equally disrdered and sinful life? I mean is there a lack of consistency in the Churches teaching here? Does it single out gay people in particular?

 

[estesbob]

But, in the examples I gave, are those people not living an equally disrdered and sinful life? I mean is there a lack of consistency in the Churches teaching here? Does it single out gay people in particular?

Catholic adoption agencies do a thorough home investigation of the couples who want to adopt a child. Since they often place children with non-Catholic couples compliance to all Catholic Doctrines is not a requirement. If a couple is not married or is living an openly sinful life , as homosexuals do , they will not place the child with them.

The fallacy of the argument being given in the other discussion is the contention that Homosexuals are denied adoption becuase they violate Catholic Teachings on the sex act being open to life. This is NOT the reasons they are not allowed to adopt. It is their inherently sinful lifestyle tha disqualifies them.

 

[FightingFat]

So basically Bob, it comes down to the “inherantly disordered” thing?

 

[estesbob]

So basically Bob, it comes down to the “inherantly disordered” thing?

It comes down to not placing a child into any household where sexual deviancy is practiced openly.

 

[estesbob]

So basically Bob, it comes down to the “inherantly disordered” thing?

Parse it any way you want. I and others in this thread have clearly pointed out why Catholic Charities do not place children with couples who engage in homosxcual behavior.

 

[Oblaidon]

But, in the examples I gave, are those people not living an equally disrdered and sinful life? I mean is there a lack of consistency in the Churches teaching here? Does it single out gay people in particular?

I hope I have the answer for you FF, but I don’t think you can convince the other forum because they don’t want to hear it.

Gays cannot marry under God’s law. They are fornicating. The agency should not be forced let people openly fornicating to adopt a child. On this subject, the right of the agency is being attacked. Where will it stop? What other criteria will the agency be forced to accept? You know, gay couples can go to other agencies if they want.

We have the right not to accept others’ ideals as much as they have the right to do what they want. When it forces an agency to accept something that it does not wish to accept is when I have a problem.

The people you are talking about don’t believe in God (not as we do). So they don’t believe in God’s law. **They want God’s law to sway to their lifestyles. **

How do you convince the other forum that fornication between committed partners is wrong? That is not the issue here though. The issue here is, why does the agency have to accept the worldly view.

Aren’t they the ones intolerant to our beliefs? They are trying to force us to believe like they do. They not only want us to accept them, but they want all future generations to accept them. They want to promote their life style to our children and take God away from the children. I would not want to see the future as a Godless society. It is already becoming that way. You take away God; you take away morals. Don’t kid yourself into thinking man’s law is the only thing that is keeping people from killing each other. Morals play a big part in it.

They want you to accept, accept, accept, but they don’t want to accept morals. If you take God away from society, I wouldn’t want to live here. I know it may seem like quantum leap, but this issue is just the starting steps in that direction.

 

[blessedtoo]

So basically Bob, it comes down to the “inherantly disordered” thing?

If you are attempting to present an argument which opposes gay parenting and adoption, the focus should not be on what people do with their body parts. The mechanics are not the issue when dealing with the issue of parenting. Do not let yourself by sidetracked in a debate with this line of questioning.

You should focus on the benefits to the child of being raised in a family with a mother and a father. There is ample research available to easily prove the point that this is the most advantageous environment for a child.

Here is a link to a great website that can offer excellent secular resources for making the case against gay adoption and parenting.
center.americanvalues.org/

 

[blessedtoo]

But, in the examples I gave, are those people not living an equally disrdered and sinful life? I mean is there a lack of consistency in the Churches teaching here? Does it single out gay people in particular?

The Church would not allow a child to be placed for adoption in a home where the adults were openly abusing drugs, engaging in criminal behavior, engaging in deviant sexual practices, etc. Catholic adoption agencies must discriminate to an extent when considering the welfare of the child. As another poster stated, homosexual couples, regardles of the feelings the may have for on another, are openly engaging in a lifestyle which is seen by the Church (and many other sources) to be detrimental to the raising of children.

 

[Oblaidon]

Let me also say-

If fornication is okay, then why not multiple partners and orgies? If multiple partners are okay, why not just meeting people on the street and taking them home to have sex. While we are accepting things, why not accept that teenagers are capable of making these choices. So, some could say having sex with teenagers would be alright. Keep playing this accepting game and see where it leads. See what happens when you make morals subjective.

What if someone wants to be killed in a sex act? Morals are subjective so why not. Two consenting adults, right? The sanctity of life is already under attack.

Again, we are taking God’s law away and putting our own feelings at will. Just be careful where this will all lead. See the bigger picture.

 

[fix]

Can someone help me with a question please?

If gay couples are precluded from adopting by Catholic agencies because gay sex is not open to the possibility of life, why are couples that use birth control, or have oral sex, not barred from adopting?

Also, if love flows from God to man then back to God, how do we consider the genuine love that exists between some gay couples? Is it not of God?

Same sex couples acting as if they were married are denying complementarity.

As experience has shown, the absence of sexual complementarity in these unions creates obstacles in the normal development of children who would be placed in the care of such persons. They would be deprived of the experience of either fatherhood or motherhood. Allowing children to be adopted by persons living in such unions would actually mean doing violence to these children, in the sense that their condition of dependency would be used to place them in an environment that is not conducive to their full human development…

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

 

[clmowry]

Well, I don’t think the other examples you give are the same in one primary way.

They are not “obvious” and there is no way to police them. (Why would someone who practices ABC be looking to adopt anyway?)

I don’t think that the adoption agency should be placing children with a 21 year single heterosexual man or woman either. This is something that can be reviewed and is enforceable.

Not everybody has the “right” to a child just because they want one.

To quote Keanu Reeves from some movie I remember:

“You need a license to drive a car, or own a gun but any bleep can be a dad.”

While that might be true for those who impregnate someone, it’s not true at an adoption agency. It’s there job to find the “best” situation they can for a child.

Perhaps an alternative question is “Why should Catholic adoption services allow a homosexual couple to adopt when there are plenty of married heterosexual couples looking to adopt?”

How is it that the homosexual couple offers a better living environment than the heterosexual alternative?

(And there are plenty of secular adoption agencies ready and willing to allow adoptions by homosexuals, single parrent, or just about anybody with $50,000.)

Now if you ask the question another way then you put me in a quandry.

“If there is a child which no heterosexual married couple will adopt is it better that they be adopted by a homsexual couple (or any other potentiall adopter) or stay in foster care (or an orphanage)?”

That one I’d have to give more in depth thought.

Chuck

Can someone help me with a question please?

If gay couples are precluded from adopting by Catholic agencies because gay sex is not open to the possibility of life, why are couples that use birth control, or have oral sex, not barred from adopting?

Also, if love flows from God to man then back to God, how do we consider the genuine love that exists between some gay couples? Is it not of God?

 

[mary_bobo]

Hello Mary

Well, yes I am a Catholic; at least I try to be. I also try to keep my faith alive and growing. When someone asks me a question, I don’t believe in simply quoting doctrine back (although someties I do, sometimes that’s good). I don’t think in real life these things are just black and white, the humanity creeps in and gives you something more real to consider, especially when I read the Gospel and see the clever and human way Jesus interacted with those around him with very real and human problems.

I asked this question on this thread because i am having a discussion based on this article on another forum where I am the only Catholic and these are questions that I have been asked. My answers would be that (regarding the question on love) Catholic theology would say that it is of God, but would seperate it clearly from the sex act, which it considers inherantly disordered. It would say that homosexual people are equally loved by God, if not more so, because of the burden they bear, but their path must be a celebate one. Trouble is in today’s society, celebacy is pretty much an anathema.

Regading the other question, I would have thought that other forms of sexual deviancy provide a less obvious barrier to a child growing up understanding that a family consists of a man and a woman, not two people of the same sex (ideally).

I do feel there’s a lot to be said on both these issues besides what I have posted here and wanted the benefit of the wise posters and Catholics with deeper and greater breadth of knowledge than I possess to perhaps shine some charitable light on these ideas.

The forum where I am discussing these ideas provides me with an opportunity to reach out to many people and demonstrate that Catholicism makes sense. Our faith is based on reason and is more than following a set of rules that make no sense.

At the moment a very intelligent friend considers that the Catholic agencies’ are prejudiced because I have failed so far to provide any logical defense of their stance.

What do you think? Do I have your permission to proceede?\

Have at it? I just thought your question a little strange if we are talking about gay adoption. The Church has spoken quite eloquently on the subject of sex in marriage. Now, if we are only talking about gay adoption, then much of what we say is opinion, no? I think any adoption program wants the best for the children they place. Children do better with a mother and a father who love one another and the children. I think that same sex parents leave the door open for much bullying of their children by other children because of their situation. Perhaps your friend does not want to accept the teachings or decisions of the church and thinks of them as failing in logic, but I think that is because they do not want to accept the teachings of the church. It interferes with what they want to do.

 

[Oblaidon]

Can someone help me with a question please?

If gay couples are precluded from adopting by Catholic agencies because gay sex is not open to the possibility of life, why are couples that use birth control, or have oral sex, not barred from adopting?

Oral sex and even anal sex between married couples is not banned by the Catholic church. Birth Control is not allowed as you know.

I also wanted to say, at least with a man and a woman engaged in fornication there is a chance they can make it right with God by getting married. A gay couple can never make it right. This is our belief. To the most part, the same people that believe that homosexual sex is okay are the same people who believe fornication is okay.

Also, if love flows from God to man then back to God, how do we consider the genuine love that exists between some gay couples? Is it not of God?

Love is not the only thing that makes sex okay to practice between two people. If it were incest would also be okay.