Gay church music director says wedding news led to dismissal

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Generic_Name said:
my.chicagotribune.com/#section/544/article/p2p-80956457/

“A longtime music director at Holy Family Catholic Church in Inverness said he was fired from his job Sunday after he announced that he was engaged to his male partner.”

I’m not really sure what he expected to happen…
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I’m more curious to know how the Pastor and parish behaved in all of this. In the article it stated that they were living together for 5 years. To what extent was it well known. Is it okay to fire a gay person if they are living together rather than get “married”?
 
saintjohnxxiii said:
I’m more curious to know how the Pastor and parish behaved in all of this. In the article it stated that they were living together for 5 years. To what extent was it well known. Is it okay to fire a gay person if they are living together rather than get “married”?
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The fact that two individuals are living together does not mean anything, necessarily, with regard to their sexual behaviour. However, announcing an intention to get “married” does entail endorsement of and intention to participate in sexual behaviour which conflicts with Church doctrine.
 
Generic_Name said:
my.chicagotribune.com/#section/544/article/p2p-80956457/

“A longtime music director at Holy Family Catholic Church in Inverness said he was fired from his job Sunday after he announced that he was engaged to his male partner.”

I’m not really sure what he expected to happen…
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I’m shocked he was surprised. Why do people think the Church will change to fit the most recent fad or to give people what they desire out of sin? Boggles the mind.
 
Heterosexual people living together after marriage are presumed to have consummated the relationship. Likewise should a homosexual couple who has publicly disclosed their orientation and living situation, regardless of marriage. This parish should never have let this man continue in ministry once his behavior was known. This will encourage a ‘don’t-ask-don’t-tell’ atmosphere in parishes, one which already exists. It is good that the pastor finally got up the gumption to fire him, but it is a shame that this situation gave scandal for so long already.
 
I read another article about this earlier:

Church Employee Says He Was Fired…

This is the part I found, um, enlightening and saddening:
Collette refused and says he was fired the next day. He had worked at Holy Family as director of worship for nearly 17 years and** he says his sexuality was no secret.** His partner has been to mass at the church, and even read scripture on special occasions. What changed was his intent to get married.
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Joe Offenburger is a mass coordinator at Holy Family, a place many describe as a progressive parish.
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“It’s like a dagger in your heart for this parish,” said Offenburger. “To me, I think the Church needs to step into the 21st century, not stay back and I think the hierarchy is the last do that.”
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What is so sad to me is that Collette seems to truly love his parish and, I hope, Our Lord. He sounds not so much angry, as hurt. Hiring him and keeping him on staff was doing him no favors! The Truth cannot be changed with the times.

Collette, his partner, the parish – they all need our prayers!

St. Collette, pray for us!

Gertie
 
saintjohnxxiii said:
I’m more curious to know how the Pastor and parish behaved in all of this. In the article it stated that they were living together for 5 years. To what extent was it well known. Is it okay to fire a gay person if they are living together rather than get “married”?
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The pastor certainly *could *have fired him if he was living together with a same-sex partner. But he may have been willing to give him the benefit of the doubt up until he made his activity public. Proposing right in front of the Church and then posting the engagement on Facebook pretty much forced the pastor’s hand.
 
What do local and state laws say about this? Does the Church have a right to fire someone who is not living a Catholic lifestyle or would it be considered discrimination?
 
praestat_fides said:
What do local and state laws say about this? Does the Church have a right to fire someone who is not living a Catholic lifestyle or would it be considered discrimination?
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From the Chicago Tribune article, “Court rulings clearly support the church’s ability to fire employees who don’t abide by its teachings, said Michael Budde, chairman of DePaul University’s Department of Catholic Studies.”
 
Elizium23 said:
Heterosexual people living together after marriage are presumed to have consummated the relationship. Likewise should a homosexual couple who has publicly disclosed their orientation and living situation, regardless of marriage. This parish should never have let this man continue in ministry once his behavior was known. This will encourage a ‘don’t-ask-don’t-tell’ atmosphere in parishes, one which already exists.
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Depends on what you mean by “couple”. It’s not uncommon at all for two gay people to live together chastely, even if they aren’t doing it for religious reasons.
 
Prodigal_Son said:
Depends on what you mean by “couple”. It’s not uncommon at all for two gay people to live together chastely, even if they aren’t doing it for religious reasons.
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Yes, I have heard that most homosexual women lose interest in sex after not very long in a relationship.
 
Once again, people choose themselves and what they want over Christ. How sad. I hope he realizes this isn’t worth losing his faith and soul, and repents and returns before it is too late.
 
We should also keep in mind, that it is only recently that the Church would take any action against practicing homosexual priests, or the priests who were molesting children. In that light, it is a bit surprising that this person should lose his job. His sexual orientation has no bearing on his ability to do his job. Let’s all pray that this matter is litigated to settle any legal questions.
 
epan said:
We should also keep in mind, that it is only recently that the Church would take any action against practicing homosexual priests, or the priests who were molesting children. In that light, it is a bit surprising that this person should lose his job. His sexual orientation has no bearing on his ability to do his job. Let’s all pray that this matter is litigated to settle any legal questions.
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No one is going to pray that this is litigated, and let’s be honest, neither are you. Just stop.

Besides, you know, and it has already been said (about a thousand times by the Church) that his orientation is not what caused this. But again, you already know that.

The state law is clear, and a man who publicly claims to be marrying another man has no place actively aiding in the Liturgy any more than a man who has told everyone he is having multiple affairs should be an altar server.
 
John_Matrix said:
No one is going to pray that this is litigated, and let’s be honest, neither are you. Just stop.

Besides, you know, and it has already been said (about a thousand times by the Church) that his orientation is not what caused this. But again, you already know that.

The state law is clear, and a man who publicly claims to be marrying another man has no place actively aiding in the Liturgy any more than a man who has told everyone he is having multiple affairs should be an altar server.
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OK. So what do you have to say about the practice of completely tolerating active homosexuals and child molesters among Catholic clergy? This was the practice until recently.

My dad as an alter boy, who was warned by the other priests at the church he served at, not to change his clothes in the presence of one particular priest. He also once went on an opera tour to San Francisco with my mom. One of the persons on the tour was a Catholic bishop. So much for a vow of poverty. It was a very expensive event. Anyway, the bishop made no secret of his sexual orientation, and was seen with various young attractive men in his company. The sexual energy was obvious.

Personally, I have known a few priests. Each of them was chaste, in my opinion. Each of them was homosexual.

The termination of this person is an abrupt change (relatively speaking) in Church policy.

As for white washing the Church, just stop.
 
epan said:
OK. So what do you have to say about the practice of completely tolerating active homosexuals and child molesters among Catholic clergy? This was the practice until recently.

My dad as an alter boy, who was warned by the other priests at the church he served at, not to change his clothes in the presence of one particular priest. He also once went on an opera tour to San Francisco with my mom. One of the persons on the tour was a Catholic bishop. So much for a vow of poverty. It was a very expensive event. Anyway, the bishop made no secret of his sexual orientation, and was seen with various young attractive men in his company. The sexual energy was obvious.

Personally, I have known a few priests.** Each of them was chaste**, in my opinion. Each of them was homosexual.

The termination of this person is an abrupt change (relatively speaking) in Church policy.

As for white washing the Church, just stop.
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(Bolding mine)

We’re not in the past - we’re in the present. Many steps have been taken and will continue to be taken to fix those very awful things that have happened, and to keep them from happening again. Just because individuals within the church did horrible things doesn’t mean that truth has changed. It doesn’t change, no matter what the times dictate, no matter what evil certain individuals may do.

The homosexuality of the priests you mention toward the end of your statement isn’t an issue at all, since, in your opinion, they were chaste. The church asks the same of all the laity - to be chaste, according to their station in life. The difference in the story of the music director is that he CHOSE to violate church teaching and announce an upcoming “marriage.” That situation is very different than a priest with SSA who lives a chaste life.
 
It shows how much you don’t know about the Church that you think bishops take any vows at all, let alone a “vow of poverty”. They don’t.
 
Elizium23 said:
It shows how much you don’t know about the Church that you think bishops take any vows at all, let alone a “vow of poverty”. They don’t.
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I was going to respond to the statement about poverty, but since it really had nothing to do with the original topic, I let it go. Thank you for saying something! 👍
 
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