Gay Clubs, and Straight Women

[bbentrup]

God created Gay people, they are that way through no fault of their own, what should they do commit suicide, or try to make the best of their condition. This is the world, people have needs, God created us all , they need companionship, many people have brothers & sisters that are gay, should they not associate with them. Parents have gay children , should they disown them. There are still gay clergy, they just dont practice, & how about the sex scandal, I think your post is nonsensical

You are assuming that God created homosexual people. The Church does not teach this, nor does it teach that you’re incorrect either, however. Still, it remains to be said, if you take that for your starting premise, you are on shaky ground. It is quite possible, and a lot of modern psychology backs this up (so I am told, I’m no expert), that there is no homosexual gene, that a lot of homosexual tendencies can be traced back to childhood trauma, and that homosexuality can be corrected by therapy (and perhaps ‘cured’ is the better word).

God tells us to treat sin differently from the sinner. The Catholic Church condemns the practice and the culture, but it welcomes all people who describe themselves as homosexual as they have to deal with this burdensome cross. We should treat these people as Christian brothers, talking with them and making friendships with them. However this does not mean going to a gay bar (for pleasure), where that lifestyle can be condoned.

I would like to caution rpp about sweeping generalizations about gay religious. It is true that homosexual tendencies are a sign that they should not be admitted to the priesthood or religious life, and that if discovered, it could lead to huge scandalous repurcussions, but there were probably at least a few in the past who were admitted to this life that led holy lives despite this burden. Still, I’m glad that Canon Law is being applied and will prevent that risky practice of admitting homosexual religious both now and in the future.

 

[Newbie2]

She didn’t say if she paid or not: her friend could have picked up the tab for her. I’d give the OP the benefit of the doubt.

Yes, but the club is being supported by somebody paying on her behalf.

(Edited)

 

[NoWhereMan]

You are assuming that God created homosexual people. The Church does not teach this, nor does it teach that you’re incorrect either, however. Still, it remains to be said, if you take that for your starting premise, you are on shaky ground. It is quite possible, and a lot of modern psychology backs this up (so I am told, I’m no expert), that there is no homosexual gene, that a lot of homosexual tendencies can be traced back to childhood trauma, and that homosexuality can be corrected by therapy (and perhaps ‘cured’ is the better word).

God tells us to treat sin differently from the sinner. The Catholic Church condemns the practice and the culture, but it welcomes all people who describe themselves as homosexual as they have to deal with this burdensome cross. We should treat these people as Christian brothers, talking with them and making friendships with them. However this does not mean going to a gay bar (for pleasure), where that lifestyle can be condoned.

I would like to caution rpp about sweeping generalizations about gay religious. It is true that homosexual tendencies are a sign that they should not be admitted to the priesthood or religious life, and that if discovered, it could lead to huge scandalous repurcussions, but there were probably at least a few in the past who were admitted to this life that led holy lives despite this burden. Still, I’m glad that Canon Law is being applied and will prevent that risky practice of admitting homosexual religious both now and in the future.

The Church doesnt have to teach it, there here millions of them in every far corner of the globe, They cant be a mistake, there are too many of them for them to be a mistake. They are in every walk of life. There are also Gay Priests who are not practicing & the same with gay nuns, who arent practicing, so we think, we only know what ourselves are doing for sure. Because God is the Creator of all things, He created them for a reason only known to himself

 

[rusty20]

I don’t think it’s a big deal personally. Think about it, would it essentially be any different if one invited a gay person over for dinner and cocktails or whatnot?

I know of quite a few straight women who enjoy going to gay bar because there is less of a concern about being groped or solicited (not to mention raped). Besides, gay guys are really nice and fun to hang around, generally speaking of course .

From my experience,

It seems acceptable, culturally, for gay men to grope women in these sorts of places. I know of quite a few women who have said this has happened to them. My generation (current college age people) appear to have no problem with this. It is as normal for a gay guy to grope a straight girl as for two straight girls to hold hands playfully in the mall or something.

So, I guess I’m trying to say that one should be careful. I wouldn’t say it is definitely sinful. But from what I’ve heard about gay clubs and straight women, it seems a little dangerous.

Also:

Perhaps if more straight men were good examples of what men ought to be, then women would not turn towards gay men for a good time.

 

[rusty20]

The Church doesnt have to teach it, there here millions of them in every far corner of the globe, They cant be a mistake, there are too many of them for them to be a mistake. They are in every walk of life. There are also Gay Priests who are not practicing & the same with gay nuns, who arent practicing, so we think, we only know what ourselves are doing for sure. Because God is the Creator of all things, He created them for a reason only known to himself

There are also millions of americans who have premarital sex…does that mean god created them to have premarital sex.

(for the record: I’m not anti-gay, I’m just playing devil’s advocate)

 

[bbentrup]

The Church doesnt have to teach it, there here millions of them in every far corner of the globe, They cant be a mistake, there are too many of them for them to be a mistake. They are in every walk of life. There are also Gay Priests who are not practicing & the same with gay nuns, who arent practicing, so we think, we only know what ourselves are doing for sure. Because God is the Creator of all things, He created them for a reason only known to himself

Just because there are so-called millions of homosexual people on the planet (your stat, not mine), doesn’t mean they were born that way. There might be millions of drunkards too, were they born with a propensity to drunkenness? You can’t assume as fact which cannot be proven. You might start analyzing homosexuality-by-birth as supposition to see where it leads, but remember it is simply unproven supposition. If you are wrong at that stage of your supposition, all your conclusions will be mistaken.

Nevertheless, I even granted to you it MIGHT be possible that they are born with a homosexual bent (but I previously and continue to point out that modern psychology seems to point otherwise). God gives every one of us crosses in life. Some people are born with mental challenges, some physical, some possibly with a cross that makes them prefer people of the same-sex. The fact that they were born that way, doesn’t make it less of a cross.

The Bible and the Church’s magisterium teaches that no matter what the origin of homosexuality, the act and the culture are to be condemned as sinful. If you continue to post to the contrary, you basically are in open rebellion to the Church. Even if you don’t agree with her intellectually yet, please, please try to submit your will anyways to her and prace to the Lord for the grace of understanding. Please don’t try to subvert others here and elsewhere as you could be held accountable for that. All glory be to Jesus! Amen!

 

[apromisemade]

From my experience,

It seems acceptable, culturally, for gay men to grope women in these sorts of places. I know of quite a few women who have said this has happened to them. My generation (current college age people) appear to have no problem with this. It is as normal for a gay guy to grope a straight girl as for two straight girls to hold hands playfully in the mall or something.

So, I guess I’m trying to say that one should be careful. I wouldn’t say it is definitely sinful. But from what I’ve heard about gay clubs and straight women, it seems a little dangerous.

Also:

Perhaps if more straight men were good examples of what men ought to be, then women would not turn towards gay men for a good time.

Well, I’ve never been to a gay bar, or any bar for that matter (I’m underage) , so I couldn’t really say for sure what it would be like in one. That’s just my understanding, from what I’ve heard, of why some women like to go to them. I suppose it would be prudent to be cautious in any situation where substantial amounts of alcohol are involved.

 

[Matrix_Refugee]

You are assuming that God created homosexual people. The Church does not teach this, nor does it teach that you’re incorrect either, however. Still, it remains to be said, if you take that for your starting premise, you are on shaky ground. It is quite possible, and a lot of modern psychology backs this up (so I am told, I’m no expert), that there is no homosexual gene, that a lot of homosexual tendencies can be traced back to childhood trauma, and that homosexuality can be corrected by therapy (and perhaps ‘cured’ is the better word).

Okay. If God didn’t create homosexual people, who am I, as a celibate bisexual, and where did I come from? Am I a child of God, baptized into the Catholic Church or not? Did I just pop in out of nowhere? I’m confused.

 

[NoWhereMan]

There are also millions of americans who have premarital sex…does that mean god created them to have premarital sex.

(for the record: I’m not anti-gay, I’m just playing devil’s advocate)

Certainly seems that way don`t it

 

[Matrix_Refugee]

You are assuming that God created homosexual people. The Church does not teach this, nor does it teach that you’re incorrect either, however. Still, it remains to be said, if you take that for your starting premise, you are on shaky ground. It is quite possible, and a lot of modern psychology backs this up (so I am told, I’m no expert), that there is no homosexual gene, that a lot of homosexual tendencies can be traced back to childhood trauma, and that homosexuality can be corrected by therapy (and perhaps ‘cured’ is the better word)…

Here’s what the Church really teaches about homosexuality. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (relevant parts bolded):

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who    experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of    the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries    and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely    unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual    acts as acts of grave depravity,[140] tradition has always declared that    "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."[141] They are contrary to    the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do    not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no    circumstances can they be approved.

2358 **The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual    tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual    condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with    respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination    in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill    God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the    sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from    their condition. **

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of    self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of    disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and    should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

 

[bbentrup]

Thank you for reading the Catechism - it’s an awesome resource for us Catholics. If there was a pointed reference to something I said, I missed it, sorry. God bless, Ben

 

[NoWhereMan]

Just because there are so-called millions of homosexual people on the planet (your stat, not mine), doesn’t mean they were born that way. There might be millions of drunkards too, were they born with a propensity to drunkenness? You can’t assume as fact which cannot be proven. You might start analyzing homosexuality-by-birth as supposition to see where it leads, but remember it is simply unproven supposition. If you are wrong at that stage of your supposition, all your conclusions will be mistaken.

Nevertheless, I even granted to you it MIGHT be possible that they are born with a homosexual bent (but I previously and continue to point out that modern psychology seems to point otherwise). God gives every one of us crosses in life. Some people are born with mental challenges, some physical, some possibly with a cross that makes them prefer people of the same-sex. The fact that they were born that way, doesn’t make it less of a cross.

The Bible and the Church’s magisterium teaches that no matter what the origin of homosexuality, the act and the culture are to be condemned as sinful. If you continue to post to the contrary, you basically are in open rebellion to the Church. Even if you don’t agree with her intellectually yet, please, please try to submit your will anyways to her and prace to the Lord for the grace of understanding. Please don’t try to subvert others here and elsewhere as you could be held accountable for that. All glory be to Jesus! Amen!

I dont believe that at all. God created them & It is indeed a cross, so what are they to do, like a said before, should they commit suicide. I think not, they have to find where they fit in , as most of them feel ostracized.Your assertion is no better or wiser than mine, why they are born that way is Gods mystery. Give Gods people a break,I have a human being attitude toward them, they have enough cross to bear by being born that way

 

[Coleski]

I have a sister and my wife has a niece who are very into having gay male and lesbian friends. Both were raised Catholic and both are now extremely anti Christian and especially anti-Catholic. One is now atheist and the other is spiritual but not religious. One claims to have read the Bible, cover to cover, and thinks its all B.S. They hate that judgemental thing about God. Bring up your opposition to gay marriage and both will raise their hackles. They are into feeling full of love and acceptance. They are pity junkies. Pro sodomy and feminist views go hand in hand. Both also support of abortion. Of course you will hear, "you should meet them (gays); they are so nice. There must be a certain mocking snide attitude that goes with the scene, both women have picked that up I notice. Both have taken to drinking too much and one now smokes pot. My advice, don’t keep company with those immersed in profound sin, even if the sinners you encounter are witty and nice. Somethings bound to rub off on you.

 

[daeve]

From my experience,

It seems acceptable, culturally, for gay men to grope women in these sorts of places. I know of quite a few women who have said this has happened to them. My generation (current college age people) appear to have no problem with this. It is as normal for a gay guy to grope a straight girl as for two straight girls to hold hands playfully in the mall or something.

So, I guess I’m trying to say that one should be careful. I wouldn’t say it is definitely sinful. But from what I’ve heard about gay clubs and straight women, it seems a little dangerous.

Also:

Perhaps if more straight men were good examples of what men ought to be, then women would not turn towards gay men for a good time.

This has not been my experience. I worked in an industry that is full of both genders of gay people, and no gay man has ever tried to grope me. The only time a woman approached me, all I had to say was, “Not interested,” and that was the end of it.

 

[Coleski]

bbentrup makes the assertion that because there of millions of gays in the world it can’t be a mistake. Who said it was a mistake? There are billions of sinners in the world, that is not a mistake, it is the product of humanities rebellion from the time of Adam and Eve. There is something insidious about choosing sin. You probably don’t even remember when you first chose to think, act, or doubt in a way that leads to further sin. The problem with modern thinking such as bbentrups, is with a failure to understand this silent ongoing process. God and Satan know this process well. This is why Satan is so relentless in his efforts to get the population to accept sodomy as good and normal. He’s just picking away at another chink in humanities spiritual armor.

 

[guynevard]

Yes, I think your over reacting, I was one who hung around a lot of gays when I was much younger, besides their sexual preference, most of them were very fine people, I am not condemning them for their sexual preference either. Also Look how many Gay Clergy we had, we went to the masses they said, so, It`s ok, & a lot of them were fine people too , not condemning anyone here. We meet & deal with them everyday & we never know who they all are

I think you need to differentiate between homosexual acts and homosexual people, the church allows one but not the other. In Gay clubs there is a big occasion to sin, this being condemned by the catholic church, of course gay people are fine, and we should love them just like any other person of God creation. There is something much different between gay people and gay acts. Also reference to Priests, they could be gay and that would be fine, all priest gay and straight have to be celibate, but have they got deep seated homosexuality where they define themselves by there sexual orientation which is the identity of the majority of gay people, they define themselves by what they do sexual not who they really are, and this is where the problem is.

 

[apromisemade]

Ah yes, the inevitable diggression to the sparring about the morality/psychology of homosexuality .

I wonder how many pages this one’s going to last.

 

[NoWhereMan]

I think you need to differentiate between homosexual acts and homosexual people, the church allows one but not the other. In Gay clubs there is a big occasion to sin, this being condemned by the catholic church, of course gay people are fine, and we should love them just like any other person of God creation. There is something much different between gay people and gay acts. Also reference to Priests, they could be gay and that would be fine, all priest gay and straight have to be celibate, but have they got deep seated homosexuality where they define themselves by there sexual orientation which is the identity of the majority of gay people, they define themselves by what they do sexual not who they really are, and this is where the problem is.

Usually gay people realize that they are gay at a young age.If they try to live a conventional life, its hard for them cause someone is always whispering behind their backs, things like U never see so & so with a woman,so these people have to find a place where they fit in, that is how gay communities start, they have to find a place where they fit in as usually they are ostracized. Dont heterosexuals have many bars for straight people to congregate, you think there aren`t any moral problems with bars when men are out spending their paychecks in bars or going to girlie bars & shoving their money down their garb while they have hungry mouthes to feed. So why cant the Gay people have places they can go, & feel accepted. I Know been there. & with any business, when U patronize any business, U dont know what your suporting.When its known that someone is gay they are harrassed, they need a safe harbor like everyone else, it is indeed a heavy cross they bear being different, from one who knows

 

[NoWhereMan]

I think you need to differentiate between homosexual acts and homosexual people, the church allows one but not the other. In Gay clubs there is a big occasion to sin, this being condemned by the catholic church, of course gay people are fine, and we should love them just like any other person of God creation. There is something much different between gay people and gay acts. Also reference to Priests, they could be gay and that would be fine, all priest gay and straight have to be celibate, but have they got deep seated homosexuality where they define themselves by there sexual orientation which is the identity of the majority of gay people, they define themselves by what they do sexual not who they really are, and this is where the problem is.

When we meet people, we should not define them by their sexual preference, but for some reason some people do. What is it their business what a person does for sex as long as they are not threatened by it. I am not talking about child molesters & such just every day citizens who happen to be gay.Remember gay people are born of heterosexual parents