gay defense

[biandblessed]

Lately I have been wondering why the gay issue seems to be such a big topic on this site. Coming out is one of the hardest things to do. You start to wonder what will happen to the friendships you have made, will people look at you differently, will they even talk to you anymore? If you still live at home are you going to be kicked out because of traditionalist parents that think your way of living is sinful? Is your mother going to cry because she somehow ‘messed up’ raising you? What about your siblings? Your younger brother that always looked up to you, is he going to hate you when he understands?
your mind starts swirling with all of these questions before you have even told anyone.
Just when you feel sick to your stomach and you need a place to go a place that understands, a place where you feel welcome anytime, anyday, a place that can provide a bit of comfort when all else fails. You go to chruch. You wish to seek some sort of comfort but even the church fails you.

I know the Catholic stance on homosexuality please don’t recite it. We are people too. I had a friend in college that when to a church seeking some understanding, some compassion from the one place that she always felt welcome. The priest listened, gave her a lecture about homosexuality and said “I’ll pray for you”. That is when she lost her faith.

We are not looking to be prayed for, just understood and accepted.
I don’t go to church anymore because I don’t feel welcome. Nobody at my church knows of my sexuality but I feel out of place, like a daisy among tulips. So please, before you go on long rants about grave sins and start quoteing things your the ones that make me feel unwelcome. I’m not trying to be mean, honestly, I don’t want to offend but some of the comments I read make me a bit uneasy about every attending church again.

 

[PureGrace]

Well, I support you and love you for who you are.

I am not gay, but I have several best friends who are as well as one friend who is transgendered. I have seen the pain and anxiety that accompanies coming out and learning to accept oneself.

I don’t know what to say to you other than to be yourself and stay positive. If you are looking for comfort and acceptance in a church setting, have you checked out a group that affirms and encourages LBTQ people and their relationships? I know that in Canada the United Church is very welcoming of LBTQ people.

 

[GraceDK]

Lately I have been wondering why the gay issue seems to be such a big topic on this site. Coming out is one of the hardest things to do. You start to wonder what will happen to the friendships you have made, will people look at you differently, will they even talk to you anymore? If you still live at home are you going to be kicked out because of traditionalist parents that think your way of living is sinful? Is your mother going to cry because she somehow ‘messed up’ raising you? What about your siblings? Your younger brother that always looked up to you, is he going to hate you when he understands?
your mind starts swirling with all of these questions before you have even told anyone.
Just when you feel sick to your stomach and you need a place to go a place that understands, a place where you feel welcome anytime, anyday, a place that can provide a bit of comfort when all else fails. You go to chruch. You wish to seek some sort of comfort but even the church fails you.

I know the Catholic stance on homosexuality please don’t recite it. We are people too. I had a friend in college that when to a church seeking some understanding, some compassion from the one place that she always felt welcome. The priest listened, gave her a lecture about homosexuality and said “I’ll pray for you”. That is when she lost her faith.

We are not looking to be prayed for, just understood and accepted.
I don’t go to church anymore because I don’t feel welcome. Nobody at my church knows of my sexuality but I feel out of place, like a daisy among tulips. So please, before you go on long rants about grave sins and start quoteing things your the ones that make me feel unwelcome. I’m not trying to be mean, honestly, I don’t want to offend but some of the comments I read make me a bit uneasy about every attending church again.

We love you and we need you.
Please come back.
The church is missing something when you are not here. We all feel it.
And Jesus has this tired look in His eyes, ever since you left. He looks towards the door, even when He smiles at those of us who dared to come today in spite of all our sins.

 

[Sir_Knight]

We are not looking to be prayed for, just understood and accepted.
I don’t go to church anymore because I don’t feel welcome. Nobody at my church knows of my sexuality but I feel out of place, like a daisy among tulips. So please, before you go on long rants about grave sins and start quoteing things your the ones that make me feel unwelcome. I’m not trying to be mean, honestly, I don’t want to offend but some of the comments I read make me a bit uneasy about every attending church again.

So you are saying that the church and those that represent the church and the members of the church should ACCEPT something that God has revealed to be displeasing to Him?

Please explain how that would work?

 

[TracyJ]

Lately I have been wondering why the gay issue seems to be such a big topic on this site. Coming out is one of the hardest things to do. You start to wonder what will happen to the friendships you have made, will people look at you differently, will they even talk to you anymore? If you still live at home are you going to be kicked out because of traditionalist parents that think your way of living is sinful? Is your mother going to cry because she somehow ‘messed up’ raising you? What about your siblings? Your younger brother that always looked up to you, is he going to hate you when he understands?
your mind starts swirling with all of these questions before you have even told anyone.
Just when you feel sick to your stomach and you need a place to go a place that understands, a place where you feel welcome anytime, anyday, a place that can provide a bit of comfort when all else fails. You go to chruch. You wish to seek some sort of comfort but even the church fails you.

I know the Catholic stance on homosexuality please don’t recite it. We are people too. I had a friend in college that when to a church seeking some understanding, some compassion from the one place that she always felt welcome. The priest listened, gave her a lecture about homosexuality and said “I’ll pray for you”. That is when she lost her faith.

We are not looking to be prayed for, just understood and accepted.
I don’t go to church anymore because I don’t feel welcome. Nobody at my church knows of my sexuality but I feel out of place, like a daisy among tulips. So please, before you go on long rants about grave sins and start quoteing things your the ones that make me feel unwelcome. I’m not trying to be mean, honestly, I don’t want to offend but some of the comments I read make me a bit uneasy about every attending church again.

The only duty that I have towards you is to love you, beyond that it’s not my job to tell
you that God made a mistake when you were made.
There are two good things about what is happening to you:
First, you probably will be less likely to be intolerant and discriminating in your own
journey because you won’t want to make someone else feel the way that the Church and
it’s members have made you feel.
Two, you are more likely to find your friends, both straight and gay, among the
better educated, more enlightened people-and your personal circle of friends will therefore
enlarge your spirit and your day, in other words, you’re better off looking for friends in
academic and cultural venues instead of church suppers and bingo players-the people
are just, to be frank, smarter and more open in accepting those who are different.
Everyone on this forum and in the world has been guilty of grave sins-no one should be
lecturing you about yours and in this case, grave sin would be a sin against charity which
is what you have been victimized by.
Sometimes, discrimination may work to your advantage. I say this because those
interpreters at the state dept who were fired because they were openly gay had to
be hired BACK as contractors at three times their salary…so it’s not all bad.
I hope you can find it in your heart to pray for those who discriminate against you, and
who try to make you feel “less than”, honestly, it really helps! Even if it’s just a quick
“God bless the haters” everyday, even if you do NOT feel like it, eventually you will
find that you honestly MEAN it on an emotional level as well as an intellectual one.
Forgiving them for their intolerance does not mean that you are making concessions,
just that you’re trying to walk the path that Jesus set for us.

 

[Cluny]

Are you going to let the ignorance of other people cheat you of Christ and the Sacraments?

 

[eichenb2]

Lately I have been wondering why the gay issue seems to be such a big topic on this site. Coming out is one of the hardest things to do. You start to wonder what will happen to the friendships you have made, will people look at you differently, will they even talk to you anymore? If you still live at home are you going to be kicked out because of traditionalist parents that think your way of living is sinful? Is your mother going to cry because she somehow ‘messed up’ raising you? What about your siblings? Your younger brother that always looked up to you, is he going to hate you when he understands?
your mind starts swirling with all of these questions before you have even told anyone.
Just when you feel sick to your stomach and you need a place to go a place that understands, a place where you feel welcome anytime, anyday, a place that can provide a bit of comfort when all else fails. You go to chruch. You wish to seek some sort of comfort but even the church fails you.

I know the Catholic stance on homosexuality please don’t recite it. We are people too. I had a friend in college that when to a church seeking some understanding, some compassion from the one place that she always felt welcome. The priest listened, gave her a lecture about homosexuality and said “I’ll pray for you”. That is when she lost her faith.

We are not looking to be prayed for, just understood and accepted.
I don’t go to church anymore because I don’t feel welcome. Nobody at my church knows of my sexuality but I feel out of place, like a daisy among tulips. So please, before you go on long rants about grave sins and start quoteing things your the ones that make me feel unwelcome. I’m not trying to be mean, honestly, I don’t want to offend but some of the comments I read make me a bit uneasy about every attending church again.

From a Catholic perspective, homosexuality activity, if engaged with knowledge of the act’s gravity and willfully, is a mortal sin. This is the teaching of 2000+ years, several thousand more if you consider Jewish tradition, and cannot be changed to suit some people in affluent societies who don’t have common sense to notice the physical, pyschological, spiritual, and moral complimentarity of the sexes. Even if some people consider themselves “born this way”, homosexual activity is objectively disordered. It is similar to promisciouity. Some men may claim that they are promiscious by nature and cannot stay monogamous. They could say that promiscuity is common in the animal kindgom and, therefore, the Church should condone it. Conjugal relations, according to the Catholic Church, are ordered to procreation and solidying the marital bond. If a couple is not natually open to procreation, it is not allowed by the Catholic Church. I am sorry that you have this feeling. As a non-Catholic, though, I wonder what good a religion is that is simply going to affirm whatever choices we make. I may never enter the Catholic Church, but I hope they hold the moral line on all sexual sin. One thing I want to say though, is that people who have SSA seem arrogantly to think that devout Christian do not also struggle with disordered sexual passions. It is true that some Christians are just mean to those who have SSA. However, those same people are almost uniformly oblivious to the struggles that other Christians (who do not have SSA) often struggle with other sexual sins. In the end, you are welcome…, heck all sinners and hypocrites are welcome, even me . You may have to come to grips with a few things, though.

 

[Newbie2]

Lately I have been wondering why the gay issue seems to be such a big topic on this site. Coming out is one of the hardest things to do. You start to wonder what will happen to the friendships you have made, will people look at you differently, will they even talk to you anymore? If you still live at home are you going to be kicked out because of traditionalist parents that think your way of living is sinful? Is your mother going to cry because she somehow ‘messed up’ raising you? What about your siblings? Your younger brother that always looked up to you, is he going to hate you when he understands?
your mind starts swirling with all of these questions before you have even told anyone.
Just when you feel sick to your stomach and you need a place to go a place that understands, a place where you feel welcome anytime, anyday, a place that can provide a bit of comfort when all else fails. You go to chruch. You wish to seek some sort of comfort but even the church fails you.

I know the Catholic stance on homosexuality please don’t recite it. We are people too. I had a friend in college that when to a church seeking some understanding, some compassion from the one place that she always felt welcome. The priest listened, gave her a lecture about homosexuality and said “I’ll pray for you”. That is when she lost her faith.

We are not looking to be prayed for, just understood and accepted.
I don’t go to church anymore because I don’t feel welcome. Nobody at my church knows of my sexuality but I feel out of place, like a daisy among tulips. So please, before you go on long rants about grave sins and start quoteing things your the ones that make me feel unwelcome. I’m not trying to be mean, honestly, I don’t want to offend but some of the comments I read make me a bit uneasy about every attending church again.

See, now I find this statement problematic; you want to go to church but you don’t want to be prayer for??

Understood and accepted? You are accepted. Your sin is not, just like the sins of everyone else. Undestood? What is it that you want us to understand?

I see the religious aspect of homosexuality to be in part reflective of the societal struggle about homosexuality that we see all around us today. Parts of society want us to be accepting of the practice of homosexuality, the lifestyle, etc. etc. We as Catholic Christians cannot.

Why is homosexuality problematic for Catholics? Society takes an all-or-nothing approach to acceptance. One has to accept all about homosexuallity, the acts we consider sinful, the lifestyle, etc. in order not to be “intolerant”, “homophobic”, etc…

Can you understand that it is difficult in such a climate to be able to separate the sin from the sinner, without appearing to cave to society’s demand for us to give up our religious beliefs in the name of “acceptance”?

What we can do is to accept homosexually oriented persons into our parishes without judgment, which is an area that many parishes have a long way to go.

 

[eichenb2]

See, now I find this statement problematic; you want to go to church but you don’t want to be prayer for??

Understood and accepted? You are accepted. Your sin is not, just like the sins of everyone else. Undestood? What is it that you want us to understand?

I see the religious aspect of homosexuality to be in part reflective of the societal struggle about homosexuality that we see all around us today. Parts of society want us to be accepting of the practice of homosexuality, the lifestyle, etc. etc. We as Catholic Christians cannot.

Why is homosexuality problematic for Catholics? Society takes an all-or-nothing approach to acceptance. One has to accept all about homosexuallity, the acts we consider sinful, the lifestyle, etc. in order not to be “intolerant”, “homophobic”, etc…

Can you understand that it is difficult in such a climate to be able to separate the sin from the sinner, without appearing to cave to society’s demand for us to give up our religious beliefs in the name of “acceptance”?

What we can do is to accept homosexually oriented persons into our parishes without judgment, which is an area that many parishes have a long way to go.

People with SSA can be accepted into parishes and the Church; just like fornicators, adulterer, liar, etc. However, they must understand that homosexual activity is objectively disordered and sinful.

 

[CatholicBloke]

This really is puzzling. Of course you want acceptance instead of us praying for you to stop. That is the easy way out. But, you are also not willing to accept the church’s view on homosexuality. It is YOUR inability to accept that is the problem - not the church’s. I respect the fact that the church has held strong to it’s opposition of homosexual activity. You say that you already know the reasons why, so I’ll spare you the lecture and trust that you are aren’t pretentious.

Saying that you think the church should accept acts of homosexuality is like saying that you think that boxing referees should allow punching below the belt. The rule has been reiterated again and again and again. If Mike Tyson starts punching people in the crotch because he refuses to see the value in the rule, does that mean that the World Boxing Association should accept his actions? Obviously not. Stop punching the church below the belt and realize that God does love you and He wants you and your friend to come back to Him.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

I can kind of see where the OP is coming from. It seems that here, and in some parishes, homosexual issues get a lot more discussion than other sins. This emphasis on them would lead people to believe that somehow those sins are worse than others or even that those who are homosexual are somehow intrinsically sinful. Now we all know that is NOT Church teaching, but when one type of sin is so emphasized it’s easy to see how people could arrive at misconceptions.

 

[eichenb2]

I can kind of see where the OP is coming from. It seems that here, and in some parishes, homosexual issues get a lot more discussion than other sins. This emphasis on them would lead people to believe that somehow those sins are worse than others or even that those who are homosexual are somehow intrinsically sinful. Now we all know that is NOT Church teaching, but when one type of sin is so emphasized it’s easy to see how people could arrive at misconceptions.

Good point. Homosexual activity is no different that other sexual sins; no better and no worse. I do agree that many Christians place an inordinate emphasis on the sin of homosexual activity. However, this may be due to the fact “gay rights” advocates more vociferous than adultery-rights groups. The bottom line is that Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and most other religions and cultural tradiciones view sexual activity only acceptable within bonds of marriage. I realize there some caveats to my statement, but they are minor.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

Good point. Homosexual activity is no different that other sexual sins; no better and no worse. I do agree that many Christians place an inordinate emphasis on the sin of homosexual activity. However, this may be due to the fact “gay rights” advocates more vociferous than adultery-rights groups. The bottom line is that Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and most other religions and cultural tradiciones view sexual activity only acceptable within bonds of marriage. I realize there some caveats to my statement, but they are minor.

Adultery doesn’t seem to need an advocacy group, it seems rather well tolerated in society. As is divorce.

The gay rights advocates are not fighting for the Catholic church to give them equal rights, they are fighting for their marriages to be as legal as the heterosexual communities divorces.

When it comes to the Church, I think we do get too shrill on specific issues, while letting others slide. That only feeds false perceptions.

 

[eichenb2]

Adultery doesn’t seem to need an advocacy group, it seems rather well tolerated in society. As is divorce.

The gay rights advocates are not fighting for the Catholic church to give them equal rights, they are fighting for their marriages to be as legal as the heterosexual communities divorces.

When it comes to the Church, I think we do get too shrill on specific issues, while letting others slide. That only feeds false perceptions.

“gay rights” groups may well; though I prefer not, obtain a civil “right to marry”. However, these will NEVER be sacramental marriages, just a fornication, adultery, or polygamy will never be accepted. If two give or women want to live together, they can already do that. The US is a free country, in that regard. Let there be no misconceptions. The Catholic Church believes that homosexual activity is objectively disordered and, if engaged in willfully and with knowledge of its gravity, is a mortal sin. This can never change. I as a parent do not want to see sinful behaviors condoned. So I will engage in political activity to stop “gay marriage”. Sinful behavoir should not be encouraged in society and “separation of Church and state” is NOT a Catholic dogma.

 

[YACatholic]

One thing I want to say though, is that people who have SSA seem arrogantly to think that devout Christian do not also struggle with disordered sexual passions.

Please don’t generalize an entire group of people. I hope you didn’t mean that “all” people with SSA are arrogant and disregard the struggle of others. Please be more careful in your phrasing so as not to create confusion.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

“gay rights” groups may well; though I prefer not, obtain a civil “right to marry”. However, these will NEVER be sacramental marriages, just a fornication, adultery, or polygamy will never be accepted. If two give or women want to live together, they can already do that. The US is a free country, in that regard. Let there be no misconceptions. The Catholic Church believes that homosexual activity is objectively disordered and, if engaged in willfully and with knowledge of its gravity, is a mortal sin. This can never change. I as a parent do not want to see sinful behaviors condoned. So I will engage in political activity to stop “gay marriage”. Sinful behavoir should not be encouraged in society and “separation of Church and state” is NOT a Catholic dogma.

And even if gay marriage does become legal in the civil arena, the Church and her teachings will not change, and what individual Catholics believe and teach their children will not change.

There are MANY things that are legal as far as society is concerned that I do not do because I have chosen to be a member of the Catholic Church and that law comes first to me. Personally, I don’t need civil law to mirror Church law. My parents and teachers were very capable in instructing me that there are things society as a whole approves of that we as Catholics do not. It was always very clear to me that just because society condones a behavior it does not in any way mean that God does.

 

[eichenb2]

Please don’t generalize an entire group of people. I hope you didn’t mean that “all” people with SSA are arrogant and disregard the struggle of others. Please be more careful in your phrasing so as not to create confusion.

My apologies for over generalization. (talk about splittling hairs).

 

[edwest2]

Let’s look at this from the average person’s perspective. There have always been people with Same Sex Attraction. Yet very recently, some have decided to fight for same sex marriage. This is not understood by most people since it is against natural law. Also, since the media is doing everything it can to promote same sex marriage, it is difficult for the public not to view all homosexuals as being 100% for it.

That said, each person with SSA is an individual. When I took my (formerly) bisexual friend to Church, I’m sure no one could tell.

Over the last 40 years, I have watched Western Christianity slowly, gradually poisoned by a small group of people. The goal: to destroy the family. Now, some gay advocates are saying, hetero relationships are so messed up with divorce and all that, why not let us do what we want?

How did we get here?

1960 The Birth Control Pill.

1968 The Hippies. Free love (sex with anyone)! “I don’t need no piece of paper to live with my old lady.” Smoke dope (yeah, that will clear your thinking right up). Down with the Establishment! Priests, nuns, mom and dad don’t know anything.

Honor your mother and father? Honor the sanctity of marriage?

1970s Bad enough that prior to this, porn was primarily about nudity. Suddenly, so-called Adult Bookstoes open all across the country showing graphic images of prostitutes. And adultery is relabeled “swinging.”

1973 OK to kill a baby in the womb. Roe v Wade. But it’s advertised as “use in case of emergency” only.

1978 More radicals, this time putting the fear of men into women. “Sisters! Throw off the chains of your oppression!” Gloria Stenem: “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.” Betty Friedan describes the family as “a comfortable concentration camp.”

So, is it any surprise…

1980s No-Fault Divorce completes its sweep of the country. “No kids? $75.00 and you’re out.” Call 800-DIVORCE. Porn on cable.

Thanks to the widespread devastation caused by divorce and the continuing degradation of the portrayals of human relationships, we enter…

1990s Sex is separated from love. In the past, movies showed boy meets girl, fall in love and get married. Now, boy meets girl, hop in the sack and declare each other a couple.

The kids are, of course, confused and not taught anything worthwhile, Instead of getting married, they start shacking up.

Foul mouthed shock jocks appear. Foul mouthed rappers appear. Global porn on the internet. Partial nudity and profanity on ABC.

We are in the abyss. The city of God becomes a distant memory. The emotional and financial toll of families torn apart has reached its zenith. Divorce rates are equal in the secular and Christian communities. Church attendance drops off and mall parking lots fill up.

But there’s no money in stable families, especially stable families that honor previous generations and relatives. There is money to be made in a culture that is unstable, that requires support services and buys, buys, buys because it’s every man or woman for themselves.

Every gay person should have the protection of law enforcement. Should not be teased or bullied. Should not be looked down upon. But people are confused right now.

Look at the great number of “what’s wrong with masterbation?” threads. In 1968, us Catholics were called “sexually repressed.” What did that mean? That we could control our sexual urges, get married and have kids? There was something wrong with that?

Now that so many families have been damaged by divorce and now that so many young people are just living together who should otherwise be married, this is better?

In 1968, the lie being spread was that people, especially young people, could not control their sexual urges. But who decides when to act on those urges besides you?

It is difficult being chaste in a sex-soaked media culture that allows ‘wardrobe malfunctions,’ and profanity and nudity or partial nudity. That treats sex like going to the bathroom. And that promotes “comedians” who spend hours talking about explicit sexual situations. And who can’t stop saying f*** all the time.

The dignity of the human person needs to be restored. Sex is not out of our control, but there is a real fear of commitment out there due to a couple of decades of divorce.

The answer is real, committed love – not love = sex. But real love for the entire person. The Church has been called a hospital for sinners. I need to go there. God knows my heart and He knows my faults. We all have them. I know of no perfect Catholics. Problem is, some have stopped trying or don’t know how to go back since they feel so distant or are weighed down by their sins. People with SSA are people. Just like I struggle with being chaste. All of us are called to be holy. That needs to be a real goal.

Hope this helps,
Ed

 

[fix]

And even if gay marriage does become legal in the civil arena, the Church and her teachings will not change, and what individual Catholics believe and teach their children will not change.

There are MANY things that are legal as far as society is concerned that I do not do because I have chosen to be a member of the Catholic Church and that law comes first to me. Personally, I don’t need civil law to mirror Church law. My parents and teachers were very capable in instructing me that there are things society as a whole approves of that we as Catholics do not. It was always very clear to me that just because society condones a behavior it does not in any way mean that God does.

The civil should not contradict the natural moral law. This is no minor issue. Whether we like it or not the civil law is one way that helps to form consciences. The Church is interested in all people not just those who are formally Catholics.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

The civil should not contradict the natural moral law. This is no minor issue. Whether we like it or not the civil law is one way that helps to form consciences. The Church is interested in all people not just those who are formally Catholics.

and we’re back to way so much energy on gay issues and so little on divorce and adultery among heterosexuals? According to the timeline above, it appears the boat launched in 1968. At that time I was in Sr Rosalie’s first grade class learning that “God made me to know Him, Love Him and Serve Him and to be happy with Him in this life and the next”. Was the Church as active on those issues as they are against gay rights now? Were politicians that supported legal divorce told by their Bishops not to receive Communion? Were Catholics told not to work for drug companies that made the Pill or risk excommunication? Were Catholic zoning board members disciplined by the Church for allowing adult bookstores in their communites?

If so, then I understand. It’s a consistent position against civil acceptance of all things that are considered sinful by the Church. If not, I have to wonder along with the OP at the difference regarding gay issues.