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Urf
Guest
By your logic so does raising kids with religion
How does it harm the children in any way? You’re just making unjustified claims based on your religious beliefs now.
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dwc
Guest
I’m not basing this on the mother’s feelings, or how the choice might affect her. That’s why the big L, little l argument doesn’t apply here. I’m basing this on how the child would be affected. Yes, I’m talking about his emotional well being, but that is a valid consideration that affects long term development.
So – in our hypothetical, we have a child who was born and raised into a family with married parents. We assume normal parent/child relationships, parental care, and bonding. At some point, life is cruel and the father dies. The choice is now whether the child should be removed from his mother and placed into another family or whether he should remain with his surviving parent. Which will cause him more harm?
Your argument depends on being able to take this child, plop him in the middle of an instant family and presto-chango recapture the equivalent of what he has lost – a child with two parents. But it’s not the same. By doing what you suggest, you’re taking away an appropriate parent with whom the child has already bonded and forcing him to try to recreate parental relationships with two new people who aren’t his parents while grieving the loss now of not just one, but two, parents. Yes, life is cruel – so do we compound it?
Your turn – explain how taking a child in the above situation benefits the child more than harms him. I’m just asking you to really think through and defend your position, as well.
btw – I haven’t had “a lot of conversations” about this but I have worked for years in child abuse/neglect court where we decided whether children would remain at home, be removed and placed in fostercare, moved from one fosterhome or another, whether the parental rights should be terminated or the child returned home, whether a child has appropriate bonding with a parent or fosterparent and what harm will occur from breaking that bond and whether a child will be able to form new attachments.
It’s sure easy to sit back and throw out random statements and taken to the farthest extreme ridiculous scenarios, but it gets a lot tougher in real life with all the factors thrown in the mix.
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mesquite_magic
Guest
I think we’re losing sight of the children in this thread.
The choices are:
Option 2 would be lovely IF you can find a family like this, who doesn’t already have the maximum number of children in their home. Now the question becomes, what is the best religion for these parents to be? The waters are getting murkier.
Option 3 doesn’t seem to be a choice for many on this site. But think about the children. Is it better to leave the child with someone who hurts them or would it be better to put them in a safe place.
Option 4 isn’t the best. Some of the group homes around here are pretty hard core. The potentual for youth on youth violence is pretty high. If you weren’t messed up going in, you probably will be when you leave. Personally, I’d rather see one “youth at risk” in a caring, lesbian home where they can get individual attention.
Given the chance I’d love to foster parent. Right now, we have six children in a four bedroom house. Space-wise fostering is not feasable at this time. I had planned on fostering my neice’s baby last December, but his grandparents came through at the last minute. He is now home with his mom, my neice. She and her husband are doing great after intensive drug treatment and parenting classes. Please pray that they continue on the right path.
I have met a lesbian couple who foster/adopted two children. The babies were born to a crack-addicted mother who had no intention of getting treatment. The little boy was in the hospital a long time, detoxing and recovering from prematurity. No one else would foster him. This couple has raised a beautiful, bright, little boy. A year after they adopted him, his birth-mother gave birth to a little girl. She went through the same withdrawel as her brother. The birth mother asked this couple to adopt her as well. Last I saw, the baby is doing great.
I had the chance to work with a nice, single woman who had foster/addopted her neice. The woman’s sister is an active addict. There was no-one to take her newborn, so this woman did. Ten years later, she fostered two little girls who had been severely abused and neglected. They were underweight and had cognative disabilities due to malnourishment. Last I heard she was planning to adopt them.
I would urge everyone on here who is against gay/single fostering, to step in and be a foster parent. You want to keep their souls safe, then be there for them. Oh. And hope that someone’s not out there saying “Catholics aren’t good enough. You have to be a Baptist/Luthran/Jehovah’s Witness to save a child’s soul”.
Kim
The choices are:
- leave the children in athe abusive home
- find a married, religious family for the child
3.put the child with a same sex couple - If old enough, put the child in a group home
Option 2 would be lovely IF you can find a family like this, who doesn’t already have the maximum number of children in their home. Now the question becomes, what is the best religion for these parents to be? The waters are getting murkier.
Option 3 doesn’t seem to be a choice for many on this site. But think about the children. Is it better to leave the child with someone who hurts them or would it be better to put them in a safe place.
Option 4 isn’t the best. Some of the group homes around here are pretty hard core. The potentual for youth on youth violence is pretty high. If you weren’t messed up going in, you probably will be when you leave. Personally, I’d rather see one “youth at risk” in a caring, lesbian home where they can get individual attention.
Given the chance I’d love to foster parent. Right now, we have six children in a four bedroom house. Space-wise fostering is not feasable at this time. I had planned on fostering my neice’s baby last December, but his grandparents came through at the last minute. He is now home with his mom, my neice. She and her husband are doing great after intensive drug treatment and parenting classes. Please pray that they continue on the right path.
I have met a lesbian couple who foster/adopted two children. The babies were born to a crack-addicted mother who had no intention of getting treatment. The little boy was in the hospital a long time, detoxing and recovering from prematurity. No one else would foster him. This couple has raised a beautiful, bright, little boy. A year after they adopted him, his birth-mother gave birth to a little girl. She went through the same withdrawel as her brother. The birth mother asked this couple to adopt her as well. Last I saw, the baby is doing great.
I had the chance to work with a nice, single woman who had foster/addopted her neice. The woman’s sister is an active addict. There was no-one to take her newborn, so this woman did. Ten years later, she fostered two little girls who had been severely abused and neglected. They were underweight and had cognative disabilities due to malnourishment. Last I heard she was planning to adopt them.
I would urge everyone on here who is against gay/single fostering, to step in and be a foster parent. You want to keep their souls safe, then be there for them. Oh. And hope that someone’s not out there saying “Catholics aren’t good enough. You have to be a Baptist/Luthran/Jehovah’s Witness to save a child’s soul”.
Kim
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DAWNCUROLE
Guest
I’ve already asked this question (see previous posts), I agree, but I’m still waiting to see who is going to step up.
Dawn
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gardenswithkids
Guest
If an extended family member needed care, we would. At this time, I doubt that I could get my husband to agree to more children (we have 7 of our own) unless a family member needed help.
I provided character references for a couple we know who took in a family member that needed foster care. If there were plenty of available foster homes, that couple may not have not felt compelled to take him in. It is a pleasure to see them all together now as it is clear this little boy brings joy to their life.
I encourage social workers who are looking for foster parents to turn over stones looking for the children’s extended family members that might take them in. (Even try relatives of relatives.) Many people may be reluctant to volunteer as foster parents, but would take in a relative if they knew of the need.
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fix
Guest
So, the answer must be faux marriages are correct and that serves children well? No. Would your logic be used for other things as well? Should abortion be moral because there are not enough adoptions?
If a single father kills someone do we not place him in jail because there is no one to care for his children?
The solution to helping children does not include more disorder.
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fix
Guest
It does? Why would truth rob children of their rights?
It harms in many ways. One chief way is that same sex parents lack complimentarity. It is contrary to right reason, nature, and the moral order. It is self evident. What is surprising is that we need to prove to some what is known from simple logic.
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fix
Guest
I agree.
No, those are not the only choices. That is how you want to frame the issue.
I am against drug abusers being foster parents. Does that mean I must be a foster parent for my argument to be valid?
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DAWNCUROLE
Guest
What I have tried to say in my posts is in an ideal world only have only 2 parent Christian (Catholic) would foster or adopt, or better yet there would never be a need for foster parents. Reality is-- we have more children who need homes than we have good homes available. So what do we do? Yes, these kids are coming from out of control situations and need stability. But how do we decide what is the second best, third best, etc. in a REAL situation? Is a gay couple better than someone who sexually abuses , better than a alcoholic, better than a drug abuser? That’s my question. Also, are you willing to step up? If not, as a foster parent than, to support couples who are foster parents, by babysitting, willing to put up with their kids who probably are inappropriate at times and confused as to how to act? Willingly to deal with the reality of the situation? Thanks
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Mirdath
Guest
Nobody so far, I wonder why…
For our part, Nepenthe and I may not be able to have children of our own; so it’s quite likely that we will be trying to adopt.
Think of it this way, o you timid parents: every child you adopt is one we won’t be able to. Every child you take out of the system and bring into your family is one who won’t have me as a parent.
This is a challenge. Start putting your money where your mouth is.
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IanBoyd57
Guest
What do we think?
I find it almost incomprehendible that people could look at an abusive home and somehow find that better than a home with caring, loving, nurturing parents who are in love with each other and not divorced (homosexual divorce rates are much lower than heterosexual ones, FYI) who happen to be in love, true love, with someone of the same sex.
Would you prefer an abusive home to a black one? Blacks don’t have lower divorce rates than homsexuals either.
Evolution has built us up so very intelligent, but it just befuddles me beyond end that there is such a severe lack of critical thinking in society.
How can you see how nice and loving and moral and honest and caring these people are, yet on the other hand believe they are unfit for parenthood because of their sexual orientation?
Which, by the way, to end this (quite absurd) debate, homosexuality is not a choice, and I think deep down everyone knows it.
Gay people can choose to be straight exactly as well as straight people can choose to be gay.
Unless the whole rest of the world can switch themselves gay at will, and I am the single exception who is unable to ever find himself attracted to men no matter how hard he tries, then you all know what’s up.
You can’t choose to be gay if you wanted to now and you know it. Stop saying it’s a choice, it makes you look silly.
Again, since you can’t choose to be gay, I can’t imagine why you would think everyone else can, unless of course you don’t bound yourselves by the laws of logic, or the facts of reality.
So, in conclusion, I choose loving fellow human beings for parents over immoral abusive ones, and I make that choice whether the loving fellow human beings are gay, straight, black, muslim, or mormon.
Perhaps I’m wrong though. Maybe all the stats will suddenly show (because they sure don’t now) that gay foster parents are 10 times more abusive. But that’s not nearly true now, and despite your ravings of sinful behavior, I’m going to err on the side of being tolerant, and not being an evil jerk by discriminating against my fellow human beings.
Fellow human beings who share the same emotions as us, who live, eat, breathe, love, hate, get angry, smile, and laugh.
I have to keep reminding everyone about how we are all human because a very, very, very alarming number of people, here and around the world, do not see people different to them as such.
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emily47017
Guest
a voice of reason! thank you!
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mesquite_magic
Guest
Thank-you Emily. I was going to ask that as well. Well, Fix?
Maybe Social Services should just leave the kids with their crack-head parents. “Gee kids, hope your house doesn’t blow-up when mommy mixes the meth ingrediants. Better that than living with those morally bankrupt homosexuals. What’s that sweetheart? Daddy’s touching you? Sorry you have to just deal with it because the only other place we have for you is with REALLY sexual deviants. Awe, honey. I’m sorry mommy broke your arm again. Sorry. You have to stay with her. I’m afraid homosexuality might rub off on you if with place you with that lesbian couple. What? Mommy and daddy just dumped you on the side of the road? Here, let me give you a box to live in. It’s so much better to live on the median then with a gay couple”.
Hey, those would be much better solutions, wouldn’t they?
Kim
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Catholig
Guest
Are the only options - “crack head parents” and “homosexuals”? There’s no "orphanage"s?Thank-you Emily. I was going to ask that as well. Well, Fix?
Maybe Social Services should just leave the kids with their crack-head parents. “Gee kids, hope your house doesn’t blow-up when mommy mixes the meth ingrediants. Better that than living with those morally bankrupt homosexuals. What’s that sweetheart? Daddy’s touching you? Sorry you have to just deal with it because the only other place we have for you is with REALLY sexual deviants. Awe, honey. I’m sorry mommy broke your arm again. Sorry. You have to stay with her. I’m afraid homosexuality might rub off on you if with place you with that lesbian couple. What? Mommy and daddy just dumped you on the side of the road? Here, let me give you a box to live in. It’s so much better to live on the median then with a gay couple”.
Hey, those would be much better solutions, wouldn’t they?
Kim
Catholig
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DAWNCUROLE
Guest
What you’re thinking of as an “orphanages” largely don’t exist any more in this country. They do have group homes or residential treatment facilities. These, however, have a mix of childern in foster care and children who have gotten in trouble. So a child who in in foster care who have been abused and neglected sharing space with children who have gotten into trouble with drugs, alcohol, the law etc. These foster children don’t have the one-on-one family support they need to grow on from their trauma. So again, if not you, than who?
Dawn
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gardenswithkids
Guest
I realize this, but I don’t understand why. As the foster care system has such a difficult time finding foster parents, it seems that isn’t working well. (Before anyone goes off on how bad orphanages are, I know someone who lived in an orphanage many years ago and had very good things to say about it. Just as not every foster home is alike, not every orphange was run like something out of a Dicken’s novel.)
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DAWNCUROLE
Guest
I agree not all orphanges are bad. I know a religious order that used to have an orphanage it was affiliated with a high school so there were always extra hands to help out. It was a wonderful place and I know the nuns and a handful of non-religious who cared for the children were wonderful. It closed several years ago a combination of fewer nuns, harder state regualtions for the orphanage and costs became prohibitive.
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