Gay lobby fighting reparative therapy at the expense of our youth

[Catolico65]

Honestly? I think we’re arguing the wrong point here. If you want to believe gay people can change their orientation, I’m not stopping you. Nor would I stop any adult from engaging in such therapy if they wished. But I hope conversion therapy gets banned in all 50 states for minors, because it often leads to forced electroshock therapy, massive hormone overdoses, and other highly traumatic treatments that the child is not allowed to decline. When they’re 18 and can make the choice for themselves, then they should be free to do so, but not before that age.

And what if reparative theory uses none of the treatments above but only counseling and a Bible?

 

[Catolico65]

Very simple: It sounds like you were never gay to begin with.

In fact no one is. That is what the Bible and science tell us.

That is why it is so important that we stop the homosexual indoctrination of our children. It happened to my godson at a liberal Christian school no doubt because he is shy and handsome.

 

[SMGS127]

And what if reparative theory uses none of the treatments above but only counseling and a Bible?

I’m not going to allow a ton of kids to be abused just so a couple of them can have counseling with a Bible, since they can already do that with a priest or their parents anyway.

That is why it is so important that we stop the homosexual indoctrination of our children. It happened to my godson at a liberal Christian school no doubt because he is shy and handsome.

I know plenty of girls who are into “shy and handsome.” Are they “heterosexually indoctrinating” your son?

 

[severus68]

In fact no one is. That is what the Bible and science tell us.

That is why it is so important that we stop the homosexual indoctrination of our children. It happened to my godson at a liberal Christian school no doubt because he is shy and handsome.

That’s not what the Church says. Where does real science and the Bible say that?

 

[Catolico65]

I’m not going to allow a ton of kids to be abused just so a couple of them can have counseling with a Bible, since they can already do that with a priest or their parents anyway.

The question was if reparative treatment is ok using only the methods I proposed.

 

[Catolico65]

That’s not what the Church says. Where does real science and the Bible say that?

The Bible says homosexual desires are unnatural, ie God didn’t create them but came after the fall.

The Catechism says homosexuality is psychological in origin, not biological.

Per the definition of sin a person must know what they are doing is wrong. Therefore, if people were designed by God to be homosexual they could not sin by having homosexual desires and acting on them. As it is they do sin because homosexual actions are not natural. On the contrary, severe retardation is a biological condition and as such persons that suffer from this condition cannot sin.

Science has shown from many studies of twins and interviews that homosexuality cannot be genetic and changes for the majority of persons. All the more reason to stop the indoctrination and diabolical mind of our youth that their condition is permanent. The gay lobby doesn’t want you to know this.

 

[acarlson]

Very simple: It sounds like you were never gay to begin with.

THAT kind of attitude is cold-hearted and simplistic. You have no idea what the poster has gone through, and it’s rude of you to assume that you do. Regardless of what you think about homosexuality/gay “marriage,” it’s hard enough to come out and acknowledge that one has SSA – ESPECIALLY when one then rejects society and embraces their identity as a child of God. I’m not sure why you think it’s ok to be sarcastic and even borderline mocking of someone going through a traumatic life event. :twocents:

Regarding the OP, I agree with the other poster who said that it shouldn’t be allowed for minors. There’s so much change going on anyway in their minds/souls at that age. Just as one doesn’t diagnose personality disorders until at least 18 precisely because there hasn’t been enough time to establish concrete personality traits, I don’t think there should be any sort of diagnosis or treatment of children with SSA.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Sexuality can change≠sexual can be forced to change

Even the studies by Nicolosi & Co. when you look into it aren’t effective, they are charlatans and should it be banned for fraudulence. It’s a mishmash of discarded Freudian psychology and and pseudoreligious nonsense.

The Bible says homosexual desires are unnatural, ie God didn’t create them but came after the fall.

The Catechism says homosexuality is psychological in origin, not biological.

Per the definition of sin a person must know what they are doing is wrong. Therefore, if people were designed by God to be homosexual they could not sin by having homosexual desires and acting on them. As it is they do sin because homosexual actions are not natural. On the contrary, severe retardation is a biological condition and as such persons that suffer from this condition cannot sin.

Science has shown from many studies of twins and interviews that homosexuality cannot be genetic and changes for the majority of persons. All the more reason to stop the indoctrination and diabolical mind of our youth that their condition is permanent. The gay lobby doesn’t want you to know this.

So did a whole host of stuff like Downs Syndrome, Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease, Autism, ADHD, etc.

What do you mean “designed”?

Science is currently learning towards epigenetic factos such as epi-marks and fetal hormonal exposure imbalances.

 

[severus68]

The Bible says homosexual desires are unnatural, ie God didn’t create them but came after the fall.

The Catechism says homosexuality is psychological in origin, not biological.

Per the definition of sin a person must know what they are doing is wrong. Therefore, if people were designed by God to be homosexual they could not sin by having homosexual desires and acting on them. As it is they do sin because homosexual actions are not natural. On the contrary, severe retardation is a biological condition and as such persons that suffer from this condition cannot sin.

Science has shown from many studies of twins and interviews that homosexuality cannot be genetic and changes for the majority of persons. All the more reason to stop the indoctrination and diabolical mind of our youth that their condition is permanent. The gay lobby doesn’t want you to know this.

The Church/Cathechism does not say that. Homosexual relations are deemed wrong by the Church, as is extramarital sex. Being gay is not a sin.

We can all pick and choose from innumerable studies to support our views.

 

[randomuser]

THAT kind of attitude is cold-hearted and simplistic. You have no idea what the poster has gone through, and it’s rude of you to assume that you do. Regardless of what you think about homosexuality/gay “marriage,” it’s hard enough to come out and acknowledge that one has SSA – ESPECIALLY when one then rejects society and embraces their identity as a child of God. I’m not sure why you think it’s ok to be sarcastic and even borderline mocking of someone going through a traumatic life event. :twocents:

I’m sorry you felt I was being cold-hearted and simplistic or in any way insensitive, but the fact is there is a possibility that the OP may never have been gay to begin with. The CCC is very clear in paragraph #2358: “The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.”

It is profoundly uncharitable, not to mention more than a little unrealistic, to expect everyone to embrace the notion of “SSA” when it’s not even in the DSM-IV and, more to the issue at hand, precludes the word “homosexuality” from even being mentioned when it’s the very word that should be mentioned in such a discussion. We have proper English vocabulary for a reason, and we have the CCC for a reason: please don’t assume to know what’s in my heart when I am utilizing the appropriate resources to form a decision.

 

[John_of_Woking]

You are confused, homosexual orientation is not biological.

In fact, the majority of persons that suffer from SSA gravitate to heterosexual in the lifetime. There are in fact more ex homosexuals than homosexuals in existence.

Finally, I had SSA and it’s gone, now what? I suppose I am kidding myself, good grief.

The gay lobby is nothing other than diabolical mind control that preys on the weak.

Well said:thumbsup:

 

[EIF5A]

“Deep-seated homosexual tendencies” is not the same as “I had relations with men in the past” or “I find this man attractive”.

 

[Catolico65]

Sexuality can change≠sexual can be forced to change

Even the studies by Nicolosi & Co. when you look into it aren’t effective, they are charlatans and should it be banned for fraudulence. It’s a mishmash of discarded Freudian psychology and and pseudoreligious nonsense.

So did a whole host of stuff like Downs Syndrome, Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease, Autism, ADHD, etc.

What do you mean “designed”?

Science is currently learning towards epigenetic factos such as epi-marks and fetal hormonal exposure imbalances.

You constantly confuse biological disorders with psychological.

Severely retardation is a BIOLOGICAL condition and thus persons that suffer from this cannot sin. Homosexuality is a PSYCHOLOGICAL condition and thus acting on it is a sin.

As far as your references to science, speculative associations and definitive results are very different.

 

[Catolico65]

The Church/Cathechism does not say that. Homosexual relations are deemed wrong by the Church, as is extramarital sex. Being gay is not a sin.

We can all pick and choose from innumerable studies to support our views.

The Bible says homosexual desires are unnatural. The Catechism states homosexuality is psychological in origin. There are more ex homosexuals alive than homosexuals. FACT.

Homosexual is not a biological condition, in spite of your insistence.

 

[Catolico65]

“Deep-seated homosexual tendencies” is not the same as “I had relations with men in the past” or “I find this man attractive”.

The problem is you have to avoid reading the gay lobby web pages who don’t want you to know the truth.

There are hundreds of stories on the web where men and women have left an sexually active homosexual lifestyle and have gotten married normally.

Therefore, deep seated or not, homosexual disorders can be healed, FACT.

 

[Catolico65]

I wonder how many that support homosexuality as “normal” would want the CC to recognize it as such at some point.

 

[randomuser]

I wonder how many that support homosexuality as “normal” would want the CC to recognize it as such at some point.

CCC paragraph #2358: “The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial.”

 

[severus68]

The Bible says homosexual desires are unnatural. The Catechism states homosexuality is psychological in origin. There are more ex homosexuals alive than homosexuals. FACT.

Homosexual is not a biological condition, in spite of your insistence.

Unnatural and it being a sin is rather different, Your reading of the Cathechism is different from mine obviously.

Please show the stats from an authoritative source to prove your “fact”.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

You constantly confuse biological disorders with psychological.

Severely retardation is a BIOLOGICAL condition and thus persons that suffer from this cannot sin. Homosexuality is a PSYCHOLOGICAL condition and thus acting on it is a sin.

As far as your references to science, speculative associations and definitive results are very different.

Actually I know Downs Syndrome is the result of chromosomal anomalies, I was using it as an example of things that went wrong after the Fall.

How about Autism, ADHD, bipolar and schizophrenia?

The Bible says homosexual desires are unnatural. The Catechism states homosexuality is psychological in origin. There are more ex homosexuals alive than homosexuals. FACT.

Homosexual is not a biological condition, in spite of your insistence.

Not in accordance with the natural law≠not biological

According to a dubious study≠fact

The problem is you have to avoid reading the gay lobby web pages who don’t want you to know the truth.

There are hundreds of stories on the web where men and women have left an sexually active homosexual lifestyle and have gotten married normally.

Therefore, deep seated or not, homosexual disorders can be healed, FACT.

Oh, so you want them to be cured like John Paulk, Michael Bussee and Gary Cooper?

That someone has gone from gay sex to a married life doesn’t mean they are straight, Melinda Selmys for example is happily married with kids and does not at all claim she is “straight” or “ex-gay” (she has been a speaker on Catholic Answers).

 

[Corki]

That doesn’t make sense because our society is a lot more accepting of homosexuality than 50 years ago and yet suicidal thoughts are apparently worse.

I wonder if the higher rate of suicide is due to the, relatively, new position that this is a permanent condition and there’s no way “out”. For a young person who does not want to embrace the homosexual lifestyle but who does not have any resources available to help him/her overcome, despair and depression could result.