Gay Marriage (A Different Perspective)

[stcalixtus]

I am a Catholic. And I believe that Gay Marriage, as a civil institution, should be legal in the United States of America.

It is abundantly clear that secular society has a view of marriage that is vastly different than the Church. God is not brought into many marriages. People marry and divorce at will. People carry infidelity in their minds and bodies.

Marriage, as a civil institution, is a contract. It is no different than a contract between a labor union and employer. In other words, it often holds absolutely no spiritual value. God is rarely present. God is not required to be present.

In this context, it is discriminatory to not allow homosexuals to take part in this institution.

I support the Churches teaching on homosexuality. Even more so, I support the Churches teaching on marriage.Are you right here right now saying you are in opposition to church teachings on this issue, you would stand before Pope Benedict and tell him…the vicar of Christ he is mistaken?

However, if same sex couples want to have a civil marriage that is their right. The Church should not concern itself.

 

[Steven_John]

Please give it up. I am quite at peace and I am fully aware I was born with a homosexual orientation. God does not call of us to marriage, or are you choosing to ignore Matthew 19? He has never and will never call me to be with women.

Bro i love ya but this is why they have accused you of idolatry.
I would go further and say you are dealing yourself as god.

He has never and will never call me to be with women

see you speak as authority over Him.

Almighty Father have mercy on us all we are sinners I beg thee not harsh us over our words in these posts but see us seeking to know you better and guide us to Your will.

 

[stcalixtus]

I am a Catholic. And I believe that Gay Marriage, as a civil institution, should be legal in the United States of America.

It is abundantly clear that secular society has a view of marriage that is vastly different than the Church. God is not brought into many marriages. People marry and divorce at will. People carry infidelity in their minds and bodies.

Marriage, as a civil institution, is a contract. It is no different than a contract between a labor union and employer. In other words, it often holds absolutely no spiritual value. God is rarely present. God is not required to be present.

In this context, it is discriminatory to not allow homosexuals to take part in this institution.

I support the Churches teaching on homosexuality. Even more so, I support the Churches teaching on marriage.
However, if same sex couples want to have a civil marriage that is their right. The Church should not concern itself.

Would you stand before Pope Benedict the vicar of Christ and tell him he and the Catholic church are in error in regards to this issue?

 

[jean8]

I am a Catholic. And I believe that Gay Marriage, as a civil institution, should be legal in the United States of America.

It is abundantly clear that secular society has a view of marriage that is vastly different than the Church. God is not brought into many marriages. People marry and divorce at will. People carry infidelity in their minds and bodies.

Marriage, as a civil institution, is a contract. It is no different than a contract between a labor union and employer. In other words, it often holds absolutely no spiritual value. God is rarely present. God is not required to be present.

In this context, it is discriminatory to not allow homosexuals to take part in this institution.

I support the Churches teaching on homosexuality. Even more so, I support the Churches teaching on marriage.

However, if same sex couples want to have a civil marriage that is their right. The Church should not concern itself.

jd,
The church and it’s pastors are to preach and teach the word of God. If they are not, your in the wrong church. And God is going to judge our Leaders with a stricter measure, and they know this.
There is no such thing as, same sex marriage. They want to have the government legalize this union for a tax break. lol.
You already know what the Lord has said about sin. Repent. Why do you think a homosexual doesn’t have to repent of their sin?
It hasn’t been to long that this sin was in the closet. How many of you remember this?
I do. They were ashamed of themselves…
When a nation okays this union, it’s one of the signs of the End Times. We already kill babies in the womb, and we now have a president that has changed Bush’s edicts.
The enemy must be doing a jig in hell.

jean

 

[goofyjim]

Bro i love ya but this is why they have accused you of idolatry.
I would go further and say you are dealing yourself as god.

see you speak as authority over Him.

Almighty Father have mercy on us all we are sinners I beg thee not harsh us over our words in these posts but see us seeking to know you better and guide us to Your will.

Wrong on all counts. Don’t try and interpret how I am feeling. You are no mystic who can divine such. I have nowhere dealt myself as god. But who and what I am is between me and God and is noone else’s concern.

 

[Steven_John]

Wrong on all counts. Don’t try and interpret how I am feeling. You are no mystic who can divine such. I have nowhere dealt myself as god. But who and what I am is between me and God and is noone else’s concern.

Lets look at the words that are wrong on ALL COUNTS

Bro i love ya but this is why they have accused you of idolatry.

Now who is mystic?

I offered

I would go further and say you are dealing yourself as god.
see you speak as authority over Him.

because you said

He has never and will never call me to be with women

These words you have decided and state what God will do that states your claim of authority over Him. TRUTH IS For God all things are possible.

Almighty Father have mercy on us all we are sinners I beg thee not harsh us over our words in these posts but see us seeking to know you better and guide us to Your will.

Wrong on all accounts, if you have issues with this you have in my eyes a very perverse image of who God is and what we can ask from Him.

Consider if a man had a perverse idol for a god would he be a perverse man?

You offered

But who and what I am is between me and God and is noone else’s concern

That is right you have free will but here in public some one may take on board your or my false god image.

Any here who have zeal for their Fathers house will correct us.

If we want a perverse god we need to keep him in your closet for the truth will always bring justice.

 

[Jermosh]

There is no such thing as, same sex marriage. They want to have the government legalize this union for a tax break. lol.

What tax break? Till very recently it actually costed more in taxes to file jointly.

 

[Jermosh]

We only have control over the proposed gay marriage plan. We can only prevent that from happening right now, but we can’t prevent the other. There’s no way to police if someone has committed adultery before they’re married, people would never be truthful. The only thing we can do is try to stop the immorality at hand which is attempting to be legalized right now.

So we are giving one sinner and break and not the other? Sorry its discrimination, either you allow civil marriage for all perversions, or none at all.

 

[goofyjim]

Lets look at the words that are wrong on ALL COUNTS

Now who is mystic?

I offered

because you said

These words you have decided and state what God will do that states your claim of authority over Him. TRUTH IS For God all things are possible.

Wrong on all accounts, if you have issues with this you have in my eyes a very perverse image of who God is and what we can ask from Him.

Consider if a man had a perverse idol for a god would he be a perverse man?

You offered

That is right you have free will but here in public some one may take on board your or my false god image.

Any here who have zeal for their Fathers house will correct us.

If we want a perverse god we need to keep him in your closet for the truth will always bring justice.

Fancy talk but you don’t know me so stop trying to figure me out. It won’t work. You are wrong. I am not worshipping a perverse god. I really don’t know where you are drawing this stuff from but will you kindly leave me alone. You have singled me out and repetively made false claims. The truth is the homosexual orientation is NOT a sin. That is what I was born with.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

So does rape and test tubes. Not a really good point there.

I think you misunderstood the point of the post, btw no test tube every produced a baby.

Adultry and fornification are not part of natural law.

Again you would need to understand the question being answered

The issue at had is as men and woman produce babies they have acess to laws which are designe to raise these children. Homosexual relations do not produce babies yet believe they are entitled to these laws.

 

[ladybri77]

So we are giving one sinner and break and not the other? Sorry its discrimination, either you allow civil marriage for all perversions, or none at all.

No comment.

 

[stcalixtus]

Fancy talk but you don’t know me so stop trying to figure me out. It won’t work. You are wrong. I am not worshipping a perverse god. I really don’t know where you are drawing this stuff from but will you kindly leave me alone. You have singled me out and repetively made false claims. The truth is the homosexual orientation is NOT a sin. That is what I was born with.

I believe catholic theology states that being gay is not a sin however being a “practicing” homosexual is, meaning gay sex is a sin, as is someone who cannot refrain from adultery, incest, beastiality ect.It is a fact there are homosexual priest who refrain from sex and thus do not sin.I have no hatred for gays or anyone else, I want to be clear about that, hatred is not a christian value however I will not promote the gay lifestyle…you could say I am outwardly neutral on the issue, why get all hot about it about it?

 

[Jermosh]

I think you misunderstood the point of the post, btw no test tube every produced a baby.

Yes it does, INF in fact creates life that is then implanted into a wom, and it is fully with the context of the question since you can create a baby through other means.

The issue at had is as men and woman produce babies they have acess to laws which are designe to raise these children. Homosexual relations do not produce babies yet believe they are entitled to these laws.

What laws are designed to raise children? Tax deductions are per child, not per family. You can have a child and still take the deduction regardless if you are married or not.
Civil Marriage is in no way have anything to do with procreation.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Yes it does, INF in fact creates life that is then implanted into a wom, and it is fully with the context of the question since you can create a baby through other means.

Really? I bet if I give you a full dozen test tubes you cannot create any babies. To assume one can remove an egg from a woman and then remove sperm from a man and mix the two then say that is creating life is quite a bit short of creating life

What laws are designed to raise children? Tax deductions are per child, not per family. You can have a child and still take the deduction regardless if you are married or not.
Civil Marriage is in no way have anything to do with procreation.

Actually that is not correct and goes well to show an opportunity to understand the problem. Look at today’s octa mom she has 14 children and no husband, and no means of support so you will pay for her, and her children probably for the life of most of them. Now compare that to a traditional family where the husband specializes in providing and the woman specializes in child rearing. Now traditional mom typically out lives traditional dad but she is not typically dumped on welfare when traditional dad dies. Traditional mom directly assumes the family assets to include social security benefits when dad dies. Would we really be helping society by dumping traditional mom on welfare when traditional dad dies (?) after all do to specializing in child rearing she clearly does not maximize her earning potential.

 

[Jermosh]

Really? I bet if I give you a full dozen test tubes you cannot create any babies. To assume one can remove an egg from a woman and then remove sperm from a man and mix the two then say that is creating life is quite a bit short of creating life.

So Embryos are not a Life? Do you have any scientific or even Catholic statement stating as such?

Actually that is not correct and goes well to show an opportunity to understand the problem. Look at today’s octa mom she has 14 children and no husband, and no means of support so you will pay for her, and her children probably for the life of most of them. Now compare that to a traditional family where the husband specializes in providing and the woman specializes in child rearing. Now traditional mom typically out lives traditional dad but she is not typically dumped on welfare when traditional dad dies. Traditional mom directly assumes the family assets to include social security benefits when dad dies. Would we really be helping society by dumping traditional mom on welfare when traditional dad dies (?) after all do to specializing in child rearing she clearly does not maximize her earning potential.

You are stating that Civil Marriage has absolutely nothing to do with raising children. Inheritance laws have nothing to do with marriage, nor does money rendered to a spouse. Divorce laws were put into place to protect woman from men leaving them penniless, children will receive SS based on their legal or blood parents.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

So Embryos are not a Life? Do you have any scientific or even Catholic statement stating as such?

That embryo was created by a naturally created female egg, and a naturally created sperm. Not by any test tubes.

You are stating that Civil Marriage has absolutely nothing to do with raising children.

? Civil marriage is mimicing Natural [Moral] Law. All just laws mimic Natural [Moral] Law. Marriage exist with or without civil consent

    Inheritance laws have nothing to do with marriage,

?

nor does money rendered to a spouse.

?

Divorce laws were put into place to protect woman from men leaving them penniless,

?

children will receive SS based on their legal or blood parents.

Which cannot be two men, nor two women, it is always one man and one woman

 

[Jermosh]

That embryo was created by a naturally created female egg, and a naturally created sperm. Not by any test tubes.

No but it was created in one, or a dish of some sort. So your argument that concieving a child is only possible with concentual intercourse is incorrect.

Civil marriage is mimicing Natural [Moral] Law.

No its not, otherwise it would not allow perversions in it. Any sexual act outside of marriage is a grave sin, therefor a perversion of what God intended. Plus the fact that our Civil Marriages do not in anyway promote procreation or attempt to preserve it.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

No but it was created in one, or a dish of some sort. So your argument that concieving a child is only possible with concentual intercourse is incorrect.

does that make any sense(?) since I did not say " is only possible with concentual intercourse"?

No its not, otherwise it would not allow perversions in it. Any sexual act outside of marriage is a grave sin, therefor a perversion of what God intended. Plus the fact that our Civil Marriages do not in anyway promote procreation or attempt to preserve it.

This is the problem, it implies there is no base for civil law, which is incorrect. The perversions are created by man whether inside or outside marriage. Just curious why do you think civil marriage exists or ever existed what drove its creation in your opinion?

 

[Jermosh]

does that make any sense(?) since I did not say " is only possible with concentual intercourse"?

No, but you gave it as a exclusive for civil marriage.

This is the problem, it implies there is no base for civil law, which is incorrect. The perversions are created by man whether inside or outside marriage. Just curious why do you think civil marriage exists or ever existed what drove its creation in your opinion?

Civil marriage is in place to package legal covenants, and is a progression of our Universal Natural Rights. If you read into some of the early writers of Democracy like Locke or Rousseau, they go into great lengths speaking of Universal Natural Rights, and that Govt is a inhibitor of those rights. But a govt could be allowed so as to not have to constantly defend those rights against aggressor and should be protected for the people, by the people. The people have the right to chose what is allowed, and what is not, people have rights to them assigned by the Constitution and the local State Laws. So unless you are prepaired to state that a consenting adult is not allowed to pick another consenting adult as their partner then you must allow them that legal covenent as is allowed by other partners.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

No, but you gave it as a exclusive for civil marriage.

If that were correct you could point it out, however it is not correct so you cannot point it out, correct?

Civil marriage is in place to package legal covenants, and is a progression of our Universal Natural Rights. If you read into some of the early writers of Democracy like Locke or Rousseau, they go into great lengths speaking of Universal Natural Rights, and that Govt is a inhibitor of those rights. But a govt could be allowed so as to not have to constantly defend those rights against aggressor and should be protected for the people, by the people. The people have the right to chose what is allowed, and what is not, people have rights to them assigned by the Constitution and the local State Laws. So unless you are prepaired to state that a consenting adult is not allowed to pick another consenting adult as their partner then you must allow them that legal covenent as is allowed by other partners.

This is why the church speaks of “disorder” in regard to understanding Natural [Moral] Law. Two consenting adults can do many things which include crimes and violations of Natural [Moral] Law.