L
ladybri77
Guest
Thank you.
- Status
L
ladybri77
Guest
Hello, CoG, homosexuality has NOT been proven to be a genetic addiction problem so far. Scientific studies have not been proven in this area. In fact the APA just came out with a statement that the gay gene theory has been disproven for now. However, as we all know, alcoholism has been scientifically proven to be genetic in some cases. This does not apply for homosexuality at this time. This is a lie that some in the gay community are propagating in order to push for gay marriage. It is the same if a pedophile were to say he is “born” with it, just not true.
E
edwest2
Guest
Here is information about homosexuality from the Catholic Medical Association:
cathmed.org/publications/homosexualityarticle.htm
Peace,
Ed
cathmed.org/publications/homosexualityarticle.htm
Peace,
Ed
L
Leetoy
Guest
I thank and glorify God that same sex marriage has just been outlawed in L.A., California. Glory to God that the normal way of being and getting married have won that marriage is only for persons with the opposite sex, that is furthermore, for man and a woman or for a woman and a man. More power to the people and officials of the State of California who outlawed such same sex marriage act because it is an abomination to the Lord as in Leviticus 18:22 - “Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, because it is an abomination.” Leviticus 20:13 - “If any one lie with a man as with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them.” Proverbs 18 - “and the souls of the effeminate shall be hungry.”
1 Corinthians 6:10 - “Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.”
1 Corinthians 6:10 - “Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.”
S
sedonaman
Guest
Don’t count your chickens before they are hatched. The homosexual lobby hasn’t given up, nor will it ever.
S
sedonaman
Guest
Let’s see if I get this picture correctly. The “state,” in one form or another and across cultures, has been involved in “sanctioning marriages and endowed legal rights” to one man and one woman entering a marriage contract since the dawn of civilization over 6,000 years ago. [It might have existed even in pre-historic times when the state in the form of the tribe sanctioned it and endowed them legal rights.] Countless generations that transcend political, social, religious, and ethnic lines have recognized that marriage between one man and one woman is the best arrangement for the good of society. This arrangement represents the distilled knowledge and experience of all those countless generations and cultures. One would be hard-pressed to find a society based on homosexual arrangements that has lasted as long.
Now arises ONE defiant generation that thinks all those arrangements are wrong and causing a “problem” and that it has all the right answers because, lacking experience, it has been endowed by special insight, and anyone or any institution that stands in the way of reaching its Utopian goal must be eliminated.
So let’s cut off our legs to cure our flat feet.
How’s that for “A Different Perspective”?
B
Benadam
Guest
Marriage= A law that orders a rule of behavior freely chosen that creates an environment of relations that promotes the unity of spouses for the formation of children into functioning adults for the good of humanity
Gay Marriage =A behavior that adopts a rule of law that imitates the environment created by Marriage for the unity of the spouses as a good chosen for the individual parties.
Gay Marriage =A behavior that adopts a rule of law that imitates the environment created by Marriage for the unity of the spouses as a good chosen for the individual parties.
S
San5210
Guest
SHW, cherry picking scripture is an easy way to avoid dealing with the complexity of the world we live in, I have to agree with Alisa’s post # 642 on this one. I do agree with you that Jesus hasn’t changed over time but hopefully our understanding of his message continues to grow.
Benadam, you make a great point regarding sexuality not being the entirety of who we are as human beings. Thank you for bringing this up, I do agree with you that sexuality isn’t the whole of who we are but I don’t believe that we can/should expect people to deny any portion of their identity whether it be their race, ethnicity, gender, sexuality, etc.
CoG, regarding your comments referring to homosexuality as a genetic addition or affliction of some kind. You should really check your science on that one. The only thing you got right there was that our experiences change our brain chemistry (not our genetics). As for understanding the intent of God, your confidence is concerning.
You do bring up this argument that marriage is for the sole purpose of having children. By this logic we shouldn’t be allowing heterosexual couples that aren’t having children to marry. The reality is that many heterosexual couples don’t have children because of health (fertility) issues, age, or even choice (sorry, I know the ‘c’ word can be scary for some Catholics). The reality is that society has realized there are other purposes to marriage (and I don’t just mean the secular benefits). The Church has also recognized that marriage is not only for procreation (Vatican II anyone?). That’s not to say that many gay couples aren’t having and raising children. Often they are the only ones eager to take in the children who are products of reckless heterosexual sex who find themselves abandoned to the foster system. I think we should rethink this insistence on procreation and start encouraging some of the heterosexual couples to also adopt the children that need homes.
Sendonaman, You’re right that no one has heard requests for campaign donations during Mass, which is what makes it so upsetting that the Catholic Church jumped into the prop 8 campaign in California. (sfgate.com followed this well) I know that my money as well as many other Catholics wouldn’t have been in that collection had we known the archbishops intentions.
Your comment:
“All one has to do is imagine two men in bed sodomizing each other to know something just isn’t right.”
isn’t worth responding to, but it does say a lot about the maturity of your reasoning. As for your comment that:
"The failure of a treatment doesn’t mean homosexuality is normal. By your line of reasoning, disease would be normal because bleeding didn’t work.”
Actually a more accurate example of my reasoning would be when the nuns finally realized being left handed wasn’t a sign of the devil and stopped beating left handed children in Catholic schools. If you’ve been at Mass weekly for the last 60+ years I assume you’re old enough to remember that time. You example includes an inappropriate use of disease, like previous uses of psychological illness. Homosexuality fails to meet the criteria for both of these (the APA figured this out in the 1970’s) .
And in your post # 704 “This arrangement represents the distilled knowledge and experience of all those countless generations and cultures.”
Really? You’re going to go with the “it’s always been like this” argument. That was pretty much the argument against ending slavery and racial segregation too. By this argument we would still be bleeding to cure actual diseases.
Ladybri77, Thank you for your comments. I am impressed with your thoughtfulness and resolve. You make a good points, that celibacy is a choice that some (gay and straight) believe is God’s will for them. It’s not for everyone gay or straight, and I think it’s up to each of us to try and understand what God’s will is for us. There are many gay and lesbians who don’t chose celibacy and believe it is not a sin but God’s will for them. They also are remaining in the parishes and forming lifelong committed relationships, having children, sitting on committees, being Eucharistic ministers, etc.
I believe we find God’s peace in living what we understand to be His will for each of us and I hope that’s what you’ve found in your choice of celibacy. As for bad relationship experiences, there are plenty of bad experiences in heterosexual relationships as well.
Benadam, you make a great point regarding sexuality not being the entirety of who we are as human beings. Thank you for bringing this up, I do agree with you that sexuality isn’t the whole of who we are but I don’t believe that we can/should expect people to deny any portion of their identity whether it be their race, ethnicity, gender, sexuality, etc.
CoG, regarding your comments referring to homosexuality as a genetic addition or affliction of some kind. You should really check your science on that one. The only thing you got right there was that our experiences change our brain chemistry (not our genetics). As for understanding the intent of God, your confidence is concerning.
You do bring up this argument that marriage is for the sole purpose of having children. By this logic we shouldn’t be allowing heterosexual couples that aren’t having children to marry. The reality is that many heterosexual couples don’t have children because of health (fertility) issues, age, or even choice (sorry, I know the ‘c’ word can be scary for some Catholics). The reality is that society has realized there are other purposes to marriage (and I don’t just mean the secular benefits). The Church has also recognized that marriage is not only for procreation (Vatican II anyone?). That’s not to say that many gay couples aren’t having and raising children. Often they are the only ones eager to take in the children who are products of reckless heterosexual sex who find themselves abandoned to the foster system. I think we should rethink this insistence on procreation and start encouraging some of the heterosexual couples to also adopt the children that need homes.
Sendonaman, You’re right that no one has heard requests for campaign donations during Mass, which is what makes it so upsetting that the Catholic Church jumped into the prop 8 campaign in California. (sfgate.com followed this well) I know that my money as well as many other Catholics wouldn’t have been in that collection had we known the archbishops intentions.
Your comment:
“All one has to do is imagine two men in bed sodomizing each other to know something just isn’t right.”
isn’t worth responding to, but it does say a lot about the maturity of your reasoning. As for your comment that:
"The failure of a treatment doesn’t mean homosexuality is normal. By your line of reasoning, disease would be normal because bleeding didn’t work.”
Actually a more accurate example of my reasoning would be when the nuns finally realized being left handed wasn’t a sign of the devil and stopped beating left handed children in Catholic schools. If you’ve been at Mass weekly for the last 60+ years I assume you’re old enough to remember that time. You example includes an inappropriate use of disease, like previous uses of psychological illness. Homosexuality fails to meet the criteria for both of these (the APA figured this out in the 1970’s) .
And in your post # 704 “This arrangement represents the distilled knowledge and experience of all those countless generations and cultures.”
Really? You’re going to go with the “it’s always been like this” argument. That was pretty much the argument against ending slavery and racial segregation too. By this argument we would still be bleeding to cure actual diseases.
Ladybri77, Thank you for your comments. I am impressed with your thoughtfulness and resolve. You make a good points, that celibacy is a choice that some (gay and straight) believe is God’s will for them. It’s not for everyone gay or straight, and I think it’s up to each of us to try and understand what God’s will is for us. There are many gay and lesbians who don’t chose celibacy and believe it is not a sin but God’s will for them. They also are remaining in the parishes and forming lifelong committed relationships, having children, sitting on committees, being Eucharistic ministers, etc.
I believe we find God’s peace in living what we understand to be His will for each of us and I hope that’s what you’ve found in your choice of celibacy. As for bad relationship experiences, there are plenty of bad experiences in heterosexual relationships as well.
B
Benadam
Guest
A
AmyBrownEyes
Guest
Yeah well Prop 8 will get voted out in 2010 and if not then next in 2012 or 2014.Way I see it same sex marriage will be legal in 2010. The ban of same sex marriage isn’t the work of God here it is the work of stuck up people. That is how I see it.
A
AmyBrownEyes
Guest
Ok so if two gay men or women have sex it is sinful? Does making out mean it is sinful as well? However what if they couple don’t have sex but sleep in the same bed. Is that being sinful? Just wondering.
C
CoG
Guest
ladybri77
In the same manner, that immoral life style can change our genes a moral life style is also able to change our genes for the good. The good and bad thing about genetic changes is that they do not occur rapidly. The good is that it takes time to become genetically addicted to and immoral life style. The bad is that it also takes time and great effort to change back from genetic addiction.
The study I have referred to is not about a homosexual gene. The study shows that the genes of our body change with our life experience. Traits in animals have been induced by training and the training is able to be passed along to the next generation. The difference between animals and man is that man is able to choose and develop the traits we desire, this we call character. It is not by accident that the physical mannerisms change with homosexual behavior. Man is designed by God with freewill. Our freewill is able to direct our actions over all genetic, physical, or mental problems. If we are not able to have control over our actions we are considered by God and society as mentally disabled.
In the same manner, that immoral life style can change our genes a moral life style is also able to change our genes for the good. The good and bad thing about genetic changes is that they do not occur rapidly. The good is that it takes time to become genetically addicted to and immoral life style. The bad is that it also takes time and great effort to change back from genetic addiction.
S
StAnastasia
Guest
AmyBrownEyes, while I am not neither a proponent nor an opponent on this matter, I think the horse is already out of the barn. If Iowa can legalize same sex marriage, there is no stopping what will become a veritable tsunami in years to come. In a sense religious conservatives brought it on themselves by refusing to support even civil unions for same sex couples.
With the younger generation (including my children) same sex relationships are hardly an issue. As more and more people come to know people in the LGBT community as fellow human beings rather than as the moral monsters they are portrayed to be by the likes of Fred Phelps, we will see a massive attitudinal shift.
StAnastasia
C
CoG
Guest
San5210
Genetic samples were taken from identical twins at birth. At the time of birth the two genes were almost the same.
Samples were again tested later in life. I think it was at about the age of 50. The news article showed pictures of the difference. Even without the genetic test, changes were obvious.
I did not state that marriage is for the sole purpose of having children. Since God does not act against Himself, the nature of His design is quite clear. The sex act is the intended method by God of procreation. It is also clear that God wishes our intent to be the same as His. Evil are intents that are against the intent of God. Homosexuality is intent and action against the intent of God.
Good and evil are not graded on a curve or by majority action. The last judgement is not made on the curve. Sin is only by intent. People who refuse children by selfish intent are no less sinners. I can assure you that there is more possibility of children resulting from a man and a woman using birth control then is possible by sex between two men or two woman.
One of the major problems of homosexuality is the need for justification. With most sins that are part of our failure in everyday life there is seldom an effort to justify the sin and proclaim the sin is good. The justification of denying a sin is evil where evil becomes good and good becomes evil is part of the homosexual life style. There is great need to try to make the sin respectable. We see this with the push for gay marriage.
Homosexuality becomes an unforgivable sin. No sin that is not recognized and sorrow shown can be forgiven. The need for justification requires having increasing agreement with increasingly more people. I can assure you there will never be enough people that can ever make evil, good.
I think you life experience is lacking if you don’t think there are enough people who want to adopt a child. Check out what is takes to adopt a child in this country.
Children are in the foster system because they are not up for adoption. In my opinion, no child should be turned over to a mother who has already had one child out of marriage and this would be a second out of wedlock. These children should be taken and put up for adoption.
In many cases, having children has become a profit center for a woman. Check out the welfare system.
I think if you check you will find that your science is not up to date.
Genetic samples were taken from identical twins at birth. At the time of birth the two genes were almost the same.
Samples were again tested later in life. I think it was at about the age of 50. The news article showed pictures of the difference. Even without the genetic test, changes were obvious.
I did not state that marriage is for the sole purpose of having children. Since God does not act against Himself, the nature of His design is quite clear. The sex act is the intended method by God of procreation. It is also clear that God wishes our intent to be the same as His. Evil are intents that are against the intent of God. Homosexuality is intent and action against the intent of God.
Good and evil are not graded on a curve or by majority action. The last judgement is not made on the curve. Sin is only by intent. People who refuse children by selfish intent are no less sinners. I can assure you that there is more possibility of children resulting from a man and a woman using birth control then is possible by sex between two men or two woman.
One of the major problems of homosexuality is the need for justification. With most sins that are part of our failure in everyday life there is seldom an effort to justify the sin and proclaim the sin is good. The justification of denying a sin is evil where evil becomes good and good becomes evil is part of the homosexual life style. There is great need to try to make the sin respectable. We see this with the push for gay marriage.
Homosexuality becomes an unforgivable sin. No sin that is not recognized and sorrow shown can be forgiven. The need for justification requires having increasing agreement with increasingly more people. I can assure you there will never be enough people that can ever make evil, good.
I think you life experience is lacking if you don’t think there are enough people who want to adopt a child. Check out what is takes to adopt a child in this country.
Children are in the foster system because they are not up for adoption. In my opinion, no child should be turned over to a mother who has already had one child out of marriage and this would be a second out of wedlock. These children should be taken and put up for adoption.
In many cases, having children has become a profit center for a woman. Check out the welfare system.
C
CoG
Guest
StAnastasia our genes have an influence in our life. As I pointed out that we condition animals and that conditioning can be transferred to the next generation. The transfer is through genes.
The human study shows human genes changing with experience in life. We also see physical changes taking place. Change in voice or change in actions as a person becomes homosexual active. There are even change in the thought process.
When the changes produce negative results that are difficult to change it is considered an addiction.
The human study shows human genes changing with experience in life. We also see physical changes taking place. Change in voice or change in actions as a person becomes homosexual active. There are even change in the thought process.
When the changes produce negative results that are difficult to change it is considered an addiction.
C
CoG
Guest
AmyBrownEyes time is on the side of God. Nothing that is against the intent of God can last.
The only reason gay marriage has any support is a lack of moral education. It is sad that moral education is lacking in people of your age.
Only by following the intent of God can society last. Society is based on respect for human life. That respect of life includes the entire process of life.
All of your rights come from that respect of life and the process of life. Without respect of human life why should you not be treated like an animal?
You do not respect life if you do not respect the value of procreation in a process of love. With out the possibility of procreation and the intent of denying the life process the pleasure of sex is as by a thief in the night.
The only reason gay marriage has any support is a lack of moral education. It is sad that moral education is lacking in people of your age.
Only by following the intent of God can society last. Society is based on respect for human life. That respect of life includes the entire process of life.
All of your rights come from that respect of life and the process of life. Without respect of human life why should you not be treated like an animal?
You do not respect life if you do not respect the value of procreation in a process of love. With out the possibility of procreation and the intent of denying the life process the pleasure of sex is as by a thief in the night.
E
EnchantedEve
Guest
Sorry, San, but Vatican II did not change Church teaching on marriage, nor has an subsequent teaching on the matter (though emphasis was placed more heavily on other aspects, they, as far as I am aware, were never presented the primary ends). Therefore, Casti Canubii of Pope Pius XI and Arcanum of Pope Leo XIII (as well as others) still stands, and we are not in a position to change that.
Church teaching of course states that intent is necessary for a valid marriage, and homosexuals cannot intend to naturally conceive their own children, since this is not possible. Heterosexuals may do this, and since a couple would not know they were infertile until after marriage (or they should not any way
), the intent is valid and therefore even infertal couples may marry. Choice by the way, would not be a valid option.Nothing wrong with encouraging and promoting adoption and responsible family life, but offering homosexuality as an alternative, I am sorry to say, is a non-sequiter argument and not the sole or even ideal option for modern society’s malaise. You fix a problem by addressing it, not replacing it with a new one.
F
fix
Guest
Renaming an action or idea does not change the essence of either. Calling evil good does not make it so. Calling truth a phobia does not make it so. Calling license freedom does not make it so.
- Status