Gay Marriage (A Different Perspective)

[StAnastasia]

So, SHW…you seem to have insider knowledge of who will and who will not inherit eternal life. I hate to be the one to tell you, my friend, but decisions like this are in God’s hands only. Statements like the one you made above are smug and arrogant, and worse than that – prideful! I thought this was a place where Christians of faith and humility could have a discussion. How about seeing to the sins you are committing in your own life – if any – and allow other human beings to look to God on their own in matters like this.

Alisa

Excellent point Alisa! There are a lot of plank-eyed folk on CAF searching for motes in other people’s eyes.

 

[StAnastasia]

Yes, every sin committed by each and every person causes harm to all of us whether we are doing the sinning or not. Perhaps the changes in the weather and in the earth which cause natural disasters are also a result of sin.

Have you run this theory by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration? The difficulty with your theory is that statistics show that natural disasters – tornadoes in particular – occur in inverse proportion to the number of gay and lesbian persons living in a state. States with the highest number of tornado disasters generally have fewer LGBT people and more fundamentalist Protestants and Catholics. So there is a positive correlation between being a fundamentalist and being visited by a tornado. Perhaps God’s sense of justice is different from ours.

StAnastasia

 

[StAnastasia]

That’s bad? I think there is good reason to fear them.

Not in our parish.

 

[StAnastasia]

Homosexual activism is their procreative drive. Since physical procreation is impossible for them, the next best thing in order to perpetuate the species is to adopt children so they can turn them into homosexuals. Another tactic is to get schools to force homosexual indoctrination on children before they have developed their normal sexual identity… Pretty sneaky if you ask me…

LOL

 

[Alisa]

Yes, every sin committed by each and every person causes harm to all of us whether we are doing the sinning or not. Perhaps the changes in the weather and in the earth which cause natural disasters are also a result of sin.

SHW, I tried my hardest not to respond to your comments above, especially those about the changes in the weather and in the earth, but I find that I simply must say something.

Again – let’s each see to our own lives. Not to make a judgment here, but I find living my life day-to-day and trying my best to be kind and helpful, to “be there” for my large and growing family, etc., are enough to take most of my time. I fail to understand how you, for example, have the time to cast your eyes around at the “sins” of others, and to cast stones as you deem necessary.

As I’ve mentioned, my sister’s child is living with a person of the same sex, and they have an absolutely darling little boy of almost 2. My familiarity with their little family has opened my eyes and helped me understand a little bit what it means to have been born homosexual. This family member differed from siblings from toddlerhood on. The family is large and heterosexual, and try as I might, I can see nothing within their family relationships which would have made this child “choose” to be gay.

Are these people living in sin? That is between them and God. Would I, for any amount of money, proselytize or declare to them that they will not “inherit the kingdom of heaven”? Again – God’s decision, not mine.

And as for world weather – SHW, I would suggest you read some of the current books on global warming and climatic change.

Alisa

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

So, SHW…you seem to have insider knowledge of who will and who will not inherit eternal life. I hate to be the one to tell you, my friend, but decisions like this are in God’s hands only.

I think God has already made His decisions about matters like this. Do you own a Bible?

 

[Alisa]

I think God has already made His decisions about matters like this. Do you own a Bible?

I do own a Bible, Ferde.

The point I’m trying to make here is that nobody knows what ultimate decisions God will make about eternal life for each one of us. We can each do our best and, with God’s help, raise our children and grandchildren in the way we believe He means us to do. But as far as other grown-ups go, they have their own consciences to follow and their own relationships with God to work out.

“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”

Alisa

 

[Brendan]

So, SHW…you seem to have insider knowledge of who will and who will not inherit eternal life. I hate to be the one to tell you, my friend, but decisions like this are in God’s hands only. Statements like the one you made above are smug and arrogant, and worse than that – prideful! I thought this was a place where Christians of faith and humility could have a discussion. How about seeing to the sins you are committing in your own life – if any – and allow other human beings to look to God on their own in matters like this.

Alisa

Alisa,

Such individualism does not have a place in the Church. We are one Body, so disease in one member affects us all.

That is why the “Correction of Sinners” and “Instruction of the Ignorant” are both Spirtual Works of Mercy.

We are all to be on guard for each other’s spiritual welfare, if we do not, we are not acting in Mercy towards our neighbor.

So yes, if one person becomes aware of anothers sin, or of falling away from the teaching of the Church, we not only have a right to offer correction, but an actual duty.

 

[SHW]

So, SHW…you seem to have insider knowledge of who will and who will not inherit eternal life. I hate to be the one to tell you, my friend, but decisions like this are in God’s hands only. Statements like the one you made above are smug and arrogant, and worse than that – prideful! I thought this was a place where Christians of faith and humility could have a discussion. How about seeing to the sins you are committing in your own life – if any – and allow other human beings to look to God on their own in matters like this.

Alisa

I have no special “insider” knowledge. Scripture is for all to see. Since Scripture is God’s Word, why don’t you believe Him when He states that those who practice homosexuality will not inherit eternal life? Do you think that God is lying when He states this fact?

Since this is a thread on “gay marriage,” other sins are not being discussed. I never said that I was without sin. I would be lying if I did. However, I do everything possible so that I do not sin the sins (such as the practice of homosexuality) that would cause me to lose eternal life.

Stating God’s Word is not smug, arrogant, nor prideful. It is TRUTH.

 

[SHW]

And as for world weather – SHW, I would suggest you read some of the current books on global warming and climatic change.

People will always try to find an “acceptable” secular reason for the way things are. You are not Catholic in your beliefs about the sinfulness of practicing homosexuality. You fool yourself. You do not fool me.

2 Chronicles 7:12-14 "Then the LORD appeared to Solomon in the night and said to him: “I have heard your prayer, and have chosen this place for myself as a house of sacrifice. 13 When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command the locust to devour the land, or send pestilence among my people, 14 if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.”

I get so tired of CINOs. They believe that contraception and/or abortion are okay. They believe that the “gay lifestyle” is okay. These people disgrace the true Catholic faith. They must grieve our Lord very much.

 

[StAnastasia]

I get so tired of CINOs. They believe that contraception and/or abortion are okay. They believe that the “gay lifestyle” is okay. These people disgrace the true Catholic faith. They must grieve our Lord very much.

Does She smite them at a statistically higher rate than She smites non-CINOs?

 

[SHW]

I do own a Bible, Ferde.

The point I’m trying to make here is that nobody knows what ultimate decisions God will make about eternal life for each one of us. We can each do our best and, with God’s help, raise our children and grandchildren in the way we believe He means us to do. But as far as other grown-ups go, they have their own consciences to follow and their own relationships with God to work out.

“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”

Alisa

Casting stones deprives a person of his life. Only God judges who inherits eternal life and who is condemned, but He judges by His own commandments/laws regarding morals and these do not ever change.

Jude 1:20-23 " But you, beloved, build yourselves up on your most holy faith; pray in the Holy Spirit; 21 keep yourselves in the love of God; wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And convince some, who doubt; 23 save some, by snatching them out of the fire; on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

If I did not care what happened to you, I certainly would not be wasting my time here!

 

[Alisa]

Alisa,

Such individualism does not have a place in the Church. We are one Body, so disease in one member affects us all.

That is why the “Correction of Sinners” and “Instruction of the Ignorant” are both Spirtual Works of Mercy.

We are all to be on guard for each other’s spiritual welfare, if we do not, we are not acting in Mercy towards our neighbor.

So yes, if one person becomes aware of anothers sin, or of falling away from the teaching of the Church, we not only have a right to offer correction, but an actual duty.

First of all, I love the name Brendan – it’s also the name of one of our grandsons!

I don’t know who makes the decisions about who “has a place in the Church,” but unless you are my parish priest (at least,) I don’t think it’s you, Brendan. Many, many of my fellow Catholics, especially in the liberal-tending Pacific Northwest, share my views. If we were all told we had “no place” in the Church, the church numbers would decrease radically, at least in this area.

Maybe I’m wrong – but I just don’t think it’s my right or duty to go up to gay couples and inform them they are in danger of not receiving the gift of eternal life. I think that is neither loving nor Christian. If they want to tell me about their lives, I will listen quietly. If they ask me about my beliefs about homosexuality or any other matter, I will tell them. If that makes me “not a Catholic,” I would have to hear it from at least a priest.

Alisa

 

[SHW]

Does She smite them at a statistically higher rate than She smites non-CINOs?

I leave the smiting up to God. He has it covered.

Do you consider John the Baptist a “smiter” also? After all, he called for people to “repent.” How about all of the other apostles and disciples? You should be mad at them also, not just me. I am just re-telling their message and even using their own words.

 

[SHW]

Many, many of my fellow Catholics, especially in the liberal-tending Pacific Northwest, share my views. If we were all told we had “no place” in the Church, the church numbers would decrease radically, at least in this area.

So, the Church “should be/needs to be” a democracy?

Matthew 7:14 “Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”

CINOs, whether priest or parishioner, do not pass through the narrow gate. They do not inherit eternal life.

“Numbers” do not matter to God. “Obedience” matters to God. Obeying the gospel of Jesus is what matters to God.

1 John 2:4 “He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 “When the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 inflicting vengeance upon those who do not know God and upon those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord”

It really is plain. Obey His commandments or else be condemned to hell for eternity. You can run to another religion in order to try to get away from God, but you cannot hide from Him. He is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent.

Whoever tells you differently is lying and is doing you no favors.

 

[StAnastasia]

I leave the smiting up to God. He has it covered. Do you consider John the Baptist a “smiter” also? After all, he called for people to “repent.” How about all of the other apostles and disciples? You should be mad at them also, not just me…

What do you mean by “also”? I’m not mad at anyone.

 

[StAnastasia]

As I’ve mentioned, my sister’s child is living with a person of the same sex, and they have an absolutely darling little boy of almost 2. My familiarity with their little family has opened my eyes and helped me understand a little bit what it means to have been born homosexual. This family member differed from siblings from toddlerhood on. The family is large and heterosexual, and try as I might, I can see nothing within their family relationships which would have made this child “choose” to be gay…Alisa

Alisa, blessings on your niece! I think you are correct – all the homosexuals I know were produced by heterosexual couples. There are studies that suggest both genetic and hormonal causes. Sexual orientation is certainly not a choice in my experience, or that of anyone I know.

 

[StAnastasia]

CINOs, whether priest or parishioner, do not pass through the narrow gate. They do not inherit eternal life.

My entire parish is CINO, including the priests. In fact, considering that most people I know and respect and love are CINOs, given a choice I would prefer to spend eternity with them rather than with a smiter.

 

[Alisa]

Alisa, blessings on your niece! I think you are correct – all the homosexuals I know were produced by heterosexual couples. There are studies that suggest both genetic and hormonal causes. Sexual orientation is certainly not a choice in my experience, or that of anyone I know.

I guess I never thought of it exactly like that before, but I’ve been thinking, and I know of no homosexuals who were raised by homosexuals either.

I asked the partner of my niece when she knew she was attracted to women. Her reply to me, after thinking about it was, “Probably about the same time you realized you were attracted to men.” There’s lots we don’t know, and I’m sure scientists are working on finding out why some of us are same-sex attracted.

Alisa

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

The point I’m trying to make here is that nobody knows what ultimate decisions God will make about eternal life for each one of us.

Maybe you didn’t get it the first time. Let me repeat it, in caps this time: GOD HAS ALREADY MADE HIS DECISIONS ON MATTERS LIKE THIS.

Let me add, we know what they are. Some of us do, anyway. Others just don’t want to understand, do they?

We can each do our best and, with God’s help, raise our children and grandchildren in the way we believe He means us to do. But as far as other grown-ups go, they have their own consciences to follow and their own relationships with God to work out.

Those are fine, Methodist platitudes, Alisa. The way WE BELIEVE He means us to do?? Really? So it’s optional. Have you considered becoming a Methodist?