Gay Marriage and Freedom of Religion

[Jossy]

QUOTE=NoMoreGames;4831937]-]I’ll start of by saying there is not always a “man” and a “woman” in a gay relationship (I hope I worded that right) meaning the child would not have to figure out which one was mom and which was dad, they would simply be parents./-]

I know what a gay relationship is, so you don’t have to explain
it to me.

But we’ll follow you logic from here on out. -] So you’re making the assumption that a father has clearly defined roles and a mother has clearly defined roles? What about a stay at home dad and a full time working mom? Wouldn’t that confuse the child equally because these roles you feel are so clearly defined would be switched and the child would have to figure out which was mom and which was dad (in terms of roles, not gender)?/-] And then it would be more confusing when the gender role did not match the actual role.

No, it will not confuse the child, even if the role’s where switched
as it have mentioned above because stay at home dad is still
dad (even though he is doing a moms job of taking care of him,
etc.) and working mom is still a mom (even though she is away
at work). Bottom line is, father is is male and mother is still
female - that is how it is and that is how it should be.

As for it not being the same as a broken home because the child would still have a mother and father. -]What it the father just up and leaves? Well, then there is no male to fill the male roll and we’re back to gender role vs actual role confusion./-]

Whether it is the father or mother leaving, does not matter.
Either father or mother will still be taking care of the children
single handedly - no problem there (with the grace from above).
I am in this situation and have survived 8 going to 9 years now
without a male partner and it has not affected my children
one bit.

And a day care is hardly even parenting at all. So -]rather than the actual parents fulfilling the roles, you have workers, potentially of either gender, filling both roles. Making there be multiple gender role vs actual role confusions/-] (the workers and the parents), not just one.

Daycare workers can never be parents. They are just workers
to keep the children happy, fed and looked after until the parents
come to pick them up. There is no confusion because a child
knows who his/her parents are.

 

[NoMoreGames]

Daycare workers can never be parents. They are just workers
to keep the children happy, fed and looked after until the parents
come to pick them up. There is no confusion because a child
knows who his/her parents are.

The child knows who drops them off and pick them up every day, yes, but who’s to say much parenting is done at home? You don’t think it’s confusing for the child to have the parents leave for a majority of the day time hours?

That response contain 6 other paragraphs. Thoughts on those?

 

[friarjamesosf]

I have not been able to read this entire thread, it’s quite long. But I have written an article that deals with most of the issues surrounding homosexual marriage, and the misconceptions that the Catholic Church seems to have about homosexuality.

In fact, I have broken down the article at catholic.com/library/gay_marriage.asp and found some very disturbing things… I invite you to read my article and come to your own conclusions about homosexuality.

geocities.com/gaymarriage@ymail.com/

Please feel free to contact me if you have any direct questions, I will try to keep up with this topic too for additional discussion on this subject.

• Ash

I don’t know who you are “Ash” but I hope I never meet you in an alley — you are a very scary person. After reading your “Special Report” I must confess that I have NEVER seen such a compilation of lies, inuendos, smoke screens, circular references, unsubstantiated “facts” and conclusions.

What moral make-up lets you couch such trash in the disguise of concern that the Catholic Church may not treat gays fairly. I assure you, the Roman Catholic Church has treated homosexuality with more honesty and respect that you have.
Please do not expect me to cite samples of what I say - the entire “Special Report” IS the example.

Unbelievable!
You will be in my prayers.

br jim

 

[NoMoreGames]

I don’t know who you are “Ash” but I hope I never meet you in an alley — you are a very scary person. After reading your “Special Report” I must confess that I have NEVER seen such a compilation of lies, inuendos, smoke screens, circular references, unsubstantiated “facts” and conclusions.

What moral make-up lets you couch such trash in the disguise of concern that the Catholic Church may not treat gays fairly. I assure you, the Roman Catholic Church has treated homosexuality with more honesty and respect that you have.
Please do not expect me to cite samples of what I say - the entire “Special Report” IS the example.

Unbelievable!
You will be in my prayers.

br jim

If you read the whole article, it gives her full name, short biography and contact info at the bottom. The original article contains just as many lies, unreliable sources and non sequitur conclusions.

Her responses to the article was not about gays being treated unfairly by the church, but by the state. As far as the church treating them with respect, a fair portion of people on this site (even 2 within this tread alone) seem to express the idea that homosexuality itself is inherently evil. That’s not too respectful.

 

[Jossy]

The child knows who drops them off and pick them up every day, yes, but who’s to say much parenting is done at home? You don’t think it’s confusing for the child to have the parents leave for a majority of the day time hours?

That response contain 6 other paragraphs. Thoughts on those?

It depends on various parents how they deal with their
child after they pick them up from daycare.
All I know is that they will spend time playing with them,
helping them with homework (if they are school age),
give them a bath, hug and give them many kisses and put
them to bed. I have been a working mother all my life (since
my first child - who will be 25 this year) and I have made up
for all the missing hours that I have spent away from my
children by being loving to them. Certainly, there will be no
confusion there.

 

[Jossy]

The child knows who drops them off and pick them up every day, yes, but who’s to say much parenting is done at home? You don’t think it’s confusing for the child to have the parents leave for a majority of the day time hours?

That response contain 6 other paragraphs. Thoughts on those?

It depends on various parents how they deal with their
child after they pick them up from daycare.
All I know is that they will spend time playing with them,
helping them with homework (if they are school age),
give them a bath, feed, hug and give them many kisses and put
them to bed. I have been a working mother all my life (since
my first child - who will be 25 this year) and I have made up
for all the missing hours that I have spent away from my
children by being loving to them. Certainly, there will be no
confusion there.

 

[NoMoreGames]

Jossy, I understand that child care is not totally analogous to the situation. Can you please tell me your thoughts about the other things i mentioned, you seem to be ignoring them. Can I assume you agree and therefore understand that homosexual marriage poses no more threat to the family than heterosexual marriage in the first place

 

[royal_archer]

it is the lack of materialistic proof that makes it a belief. You can not PROVE Jesus was God, that is something we BELIEVE.

Nor can you prove that George Washington was the first president. In both cases we have no scientific evidence, just a written record and oral tradition.

 

[royal_archer]

Homosexual couples should have the same rights as Hertosexual couples. If you have to do this in sociaty by somthing called marriage then so be it. They have just as much legitimacy to be recognized as any others.

Claiming that most Homosexual relationships are short and brief things this is no more true than saying the same of many more hetrosexual couples.

People are born the way they are. Im sure most Homosexuals would have loved to be normal and not have these urges for the same sex growing up but thats the way it is. They have the right to live their lifes in such a way that the state recognises them as life partners and they are accorded the rights of such a partnership.

You dont have to like what they do or even agree with it however you do have to accept it. Start taking away rights from people or not according them the rights they deserve is a travesty you may as well not accord people of a different political/religious/skin colour rights.

How would you feel if the state turned round to a catholic couple and refused to recognize their maggiage? Their is absolutly no difference.

Why do you think homosexuals should have more “rights” than polygamists?

 

[NoMoreGames]

Nor can you prove that George Washington was the first president. In both cases we have no scientific evidence, just a written record and oral tradition.

Your comparison only works if what I said was that you couldn’t prove that jesus existed. There is indeed proof for that. Presidency is a tangible role. God (i mean like literal God, not the things that show us God in our daily lives) is not.

 

[Jossy]

Jossy, I understand that child care is not totally analogous to the situation. Can you please tell me your thoughts about the other things i mentioned, you seem to be ignoring them. Can I assume you agree and therefore understand that homosexual marriage poses no more threat to the family than heterosexual marriage in the first place

You want my thoughts on homosexual marriage?
It is a major threat, not only to families but to the whole world.
What will the children of homosexual partners be calling
them? mom, mom or dad, dad or just partner A and partner
B. Homosexuality must not be legalized at all, otherwise
we will have male mother figures in ladies toilets and vis versa.
I know that homosexual is a sickness of the mind and this
people can be free from this if they repent and turn to God for
salvation. Why trying to support this sort of thing is beyond
my understanding.
I believe that the disasters that are happening in the world today
are a just the beginning of a major disasters that will come
if we do not put a stop to this.
I am from a small country in the Pacific Ocean and it makes
me wonder why a country like AMERICA can have this
word “IN GOD WE TRUST” on their monetary unit and some
of its states are now trying to legalise this issue. No wonder,
they have tornado’s, hurricane’s, public shootings, planes
crushing into buildings, etc. Doesn’t this bring a message?

 

[NoMoreGames]

Did you really not see the other comments i made about other types of broken house holds, not just day care? That’s what I meant. I even referred to them as the 6 other paragraphs.

 

[NoMoreGames]

You want my thoughts on homosexual marriage?
It is a major threat, not only to families but to the whole world.
What will the children of homosexual partners be calling
them? mom, mom or dad, dad or just partner A and partner
B. Homosexuality must not be legalized at all, otherwise
we will have male mother figures in ladies toilets and vis versa.

What’s wrong with calling them both mom or dad? Don’t we already have male mother figures? (stay at home dads) As far as men in women’s restrooms, I don’t understand how that is related to gay marriage. There are countries where it is legal and they don’t have this problem.

I know that homosexual is a sickness of the mind and this
people can be free from this if they repent and turn to God for
salvation. Why trying to support this sort of thing is beyond
my understanding.

not even the church claims that. An individual need not repent from their homosexuality, just the homosexual actions. But again, this was now about the religious belief behind homosexuality, so don’t respond to this.

I believe that the disasters that are happening in the world today
are a just the beginning of a major disasters that will come
if we do not put a stop to this.
I am from a small country in the Pacific Ocean and it makes
me wonder why a country like AMERICA can have this
word “IN GOD WE TRUST” on their monetary unit and some
of its states are now trying to legalise this issue. No wonder,
they have tornado’s, hurricane’s, public shootings, planes
crushing into buildings, etc. Doesn’t this bring a message?

You honestly believe that two men or two women being in a relationship caused 9/11? Or tornados and hurricanes (which have been going on since the beginning of time)? How would a gay relationship cause a murderer to go on a shooting spree? And you realize these have all happened in countries where it is illegal as well, right?

 

[royal_archer]

Your comparison only works if what I said was that you couldn’t prove that jesus existed. There is indeed proof for that. Presidency is a tangible role. God (i mean like literal God, not the things that show us God in our daily lives) is not.

Yes Presidents exist today but can you prove they existed in the past with something more tangible than written and oral records?

 

[friarjamesosf]

If you read the whole article, it gives her full name, short biography and contact info at the bottom. The original article contains just as many lies, unreliable sources and non sequitur conclusions.

Her responses to the article was not about gays being treated unfairly by the church, but by the state. As far as the church treating them with respect, a fair portion of people on this site (even 2 within this tread alone) seem to express the idea that homosexuality itself is inherently evil. That’s not too respectful.

Hi NMG
You raise a good point about the respect. I doubt anyone would ever find an official document of the Roman Catholic Church that would say homosexuality is in itself inherently evil. As I know it, the still official church teaching is that being homosexual is not sinful, but performing homosexual acts is - as is every form of sexual activity outside of marriage.

Other churches have come closer to full respect than the Roman Church has. As for now, homosexuals will have to experience the Roman Church much like Galileo did.

 

[Jossy]

Did you really not see the other comments i made about other types of broken house holds, not just day care? That’s what I meant. I even referred to them as the 6 other paragraphs.

I thought I have already posted my say re your 6 paragraphs?
Maybe, it is not highlighted properly. It is contained in your
text.
THe only one that was
highlighted was the daycare issue, which you replied to.

 

[Jossy]

What’s wrong with calling them both mom or dad? Don’t we already have male mother figures? (stay at home dads) As far as men in women’s restrooms, I don’t understand how that is related to gay marriage. There are countries where it is legal and they don’t have this problem.

not even the church claims that. An individual need not repent from their homosexuality, just the homosexual actions. But again, this was now about the religious belief behind homosexuality, so don’t respond to this.

You honestly believe that two men or two women being in a relationship caused 9/11? Or tornados and hurricanes (which have been going on since the beginning of time)? How would a gay relationship cause a murderer to go on a shooting spree? And you realize these have all happened in countries where it is illegal as well, right?

We can go on and on arguing about this issue, but the bottom
line is this - IF GOD’S LAW IS NOT FOLLOWED/WITNESSED,
THIS WORLD WILL FACE DISASTERS, especially countries
that do not allow religious instructions taught in schools.
For those Christian who will stand and fight for GOD’S LAW
TO PREVAIL will be saved and for those who are AGAINST
WILL BE LOST.
So stand fast and ACKNOWLEDGE THAT GOD’S WORD
IS LAW.

 

[mangy_dog]

Maybe under the Catholic view, those are what marriage is, but to some one of a different faith, or no faith at all (as protected by the Bill of Rights) those may not be crucial ingredients. If Muslims overtook the united states and demanded prayer to Allah at all the proper hours, you would be upset, right? Well in this case, those against allowing gay marriage in a legal aspect, not religious, are the Muslims from the example (nothing against Muslims, just the first example that came to mind)

As far as being against the natural law, what are non organic drugs, or machines that keep people breathing after their brains have stop functioning? Everything has to be brought into perspective.

And dkdempsey, if you’re going to be sarcastic and rude, please refrain from speaking. I’m looking for an honest debate.

#1. The catholic church is the one, true, catholic and apostolic church that Christ intended to exist after His ascensin into heaven and of which He left Peter as its first pope…264 popes later to Pope Bendict XVI. And the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

#2. The actualization of homosexuality is a sin. No two ways about it.

#3. If you insist on defending this posture… you are simply giving in to the devil.

#4. There is a Warning coming…it is prophetic! Garabandal is not the only "apparition"of the Virgin Mother of God that indicates this. Medjugorje and Fatima also indicate this. And if that isn’t enough…the book of Apocalypse also indicates this event.

Bottom line…don’t stay in a sinking ship.

 

[NoMoreGames]

We can go on and on arguing about this issue, but the bottom
line is this - IF GOD’S LAW IS NOT FOLLOWED/WITNESSED,
THIS WORLD WILL FACE DISASTERS, especially countries
that do not allow religious instructions taught in schools.
For those Christian who will stand and fight for GOD’S LAW
TO PREVAIL will be saved and for those who are AGAINST
WILL BE LOST.
So stand fast and ACKNOWLEDGE THAT GOD’S WORD
IS LAW.

To start of, I offer my sincereiest apologies. You response ot hte other factoes was on hte bottom of a page and almost complete crossed out and I never saw it, sorry aoub that. I’ll respond to that later.

As far as this goes, it’s not an argue, it’s a debate I would like you to respond however. I don’t deny that God’s word is law. But we, as humans, are not able to force that upon all the other citizens of this country. I would really like to know if you honestly believe that things like hurricanes, tornados and tidal waves (all natural occurrences) as well as shootings and terrorists attacks (all of which happen everywhere, reguarldes of religious affiliation) really happen because of homosexual marriage (or anything religiously negative thought socially fine).

 

[NoMoreGames]

#1. The catholic church is the one, true, catholic and apostolic church that Christ intended to exist after His ascensin into heaven and of which He left Peter as its first pope…264 popes later to Pope Bendict XVI. And the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

#2. The actualization of homosexuality is a sin. No two ways about it.

#3. If you insist on defending this posture… you are simply giving in to the devil.

#4. There is a Warning coming…it is prophetic! Garabandal is not the only "apparition"of the Virgin Mother of God that indicates this. Medjugorje and Fatima also indicate this. And if that isn’t enough…the book of Apocalypse also indicates this event.

Bottom line…don’t stay in a sinking ship.

I think you are another who missed the point of this topic. It was questioning the social debate on gay marriage. SOCIAL, not religious.