Interested,It is a complete betrayal of trust from someone that you should be able to trust more than anyone. “Et tu, Brute?”
Wait a minute here. I happen to know of atheists who do not support same-sex marriage for the same non-religious reasons as others have already posted. (Said atheists don’t believe that there’s anything wrong with gays having sex in private, though.) There are many atheists who despise relativism, political correctness, and other forms of cultural Marxism. I also linked to an article on another thread that outlined the case why same-sex marriage should not be legalised – it was co-authored by a self-identified homosexual.OK, if it is non religious and rational why are atheists extremely pro gay rights?
I didn’t mean all atheists are extremely pro gay rights. I meant that if you polled atheists about gay rights issues they would probably be in favor of them more than just about any other group.Wait a minute here. I happen to know of atheists who do not support same-sex marriage for the same non-religious reasons as others have already posted. (Said atheists don’t believe that there’s anything wrong with gays having sex in private, though.) There are many atheists who despise relativism, political correctness, and other forms of cultural Marxism. I also linked to an article on another thread that outlined the case why same-sex marriage should not be legalised – it was co-authored by a self-identified homosexual.
So don’t go lumping all atheists into some pigeon hole as if atheism were a political party. There exist practising homosexuals who are against same sex marriage just as there do atheists.
We would all be happy to discuss that on a new thread.So why is Catholicism more valid than Mormonism or Scientology? What about Islam? Why is Catholicism more valid than Islam?
I was asking what proof that SSM is wrong would you accept.What proof would I accept for God or Christianity? God would have to come down and explain it, preferably to everyone in the world. And he would have to do it in a super miraculous way so no one would deny it. As it stands there really is no philosophical argument for God that could convince me.
Make one up and link it. I don’t even know the right sub forum.We would all be happy to discuss that on a new thread.
Well the same thing would have to happen to convince me that SSM is wrong. Actually, if God came down and said SSM was wrong, I might just disagree. Just because a god exists doesn’t mean that he would be all compassionate.I was asking what proof that SSM is wrong would you accept.
At least you admit that no truth will convince you about the existence of God.
Interested,Well the same thing would have to happen to convince me that SSM is wrong. Actually, if God came down and said SSM was wrong, I might just disagree. Just because a god exists doesn’t mean that he would be all compassionate.
But in all honesty I don’t think there is anything that could convince me that SSM is wrong. The golden rule is the gold standard of morality in my opinion and SSM doesn’t go against it at all. And in no way does SSM contradict loving thy neighbor.
A gay man in a committed, monogamous relationship with a good Christian man for producing virtue. A relationship that fosters love, forgiveness, grace and mercy of God in an intimate homosexual relationship.
In giving to either partner suggesting that this giving is actually giving selves to each other in a same sex union and believing that this intimacy is good and loving.
This all requires an understanding and acceptance of the same meaning of love, virtue and what it is to be intimate that is contrary to the notions as you propose.The notion that this intimate, bond-creating, household strengthening; relationship-building is a good thing in a homosexual relationship.
So how does being a homosexual go against the golden rule or loving thy neighbor?Interested,
You parrot “love thy neighbor” as if you believe that this justifies SSM. You cannot pull a verse out of a Bible and apply it as if you believe it applies unless you understand the entire context and the notion of “love”. It is not a warm fuzzy feeling, a feeling that a homosexual man in a gay relationship in SSM would be considered as I have heard it…
This all requires an understanding and acceptance of the same meaning of love, virtue and what it is to be intimate that is contrary to the notions as you propose.
Interested,So how does being a homosexual go against the golden rule or loving thy neighbor?
Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Leviticus 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
Luke 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
So what is love. Faith, Hope and Charity…Charity endures forever, for God is Love…so what is Love…30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
The better question is, ‘what is marriage?’ When you understand that, you will understand why a union of same-sex couples cannot be a marriage.So how does being a homosexual go against the golden rule or loving thy neighbor?
Your definition of marriage is different than mine obviously.The better question is, ‘what is marriage?’ When you understand that, you will understand why a union of same-sex couples cannot be a marriage.
I have no interest in subscribing to all your laws because I don’t agree with many of them. I am sure that there are laws in leviticus that you don’t believe in as well.Interested,
I said SSM, no homosexuals. You have plucked one law out of the many…it is one law…do you agree then that you should obey all the laws, or just this one…
So what is love. Faith, Hope and Charity…Charity endures forever, for God is Love…so what is Love…
Good Rabbi, why do you call me good, God alone is good…
So what is love, love is willing God to another in action and deed. Homosexual acts are contrary to the goodness of God and is not willing God to another. Agreeing that SSM is loving is not loving because it is not willing God to those that commit this offense.
So this then is the definition of love, to act, to will God to the other and in doing so knowing that what you will is for the greater good. To consent to homosexuality and SSM is not the greater good that is of God and is not love.
So now that you have asked which law you propose to follow, please subscribe to all the laws…you are welcome to join in with us.,…
What is your definition of marriage?Your definition of marriage is different than mine obviously.
I defined it in another thread and I believe it went something like this…a lifelong commitment between two consenting adults based on love.What is your definition of marriage?
Is Incest cool in your book? It fits this definition rather snug.I defined it in another thread and I believe it went something like this…a lifelong commitment between two consenting adults based on love.
I would prefer to know what it is, not what is 'something like. Meanwhile, I would defend the following “conjugal view” of marriage. It comes from a paper called “What Is Marriage?” (I started a thread on it that includes a link to a copy of the article, which appeared in the Winter 2010 issue of the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy. It makes no appeal to religious authority.)I defined it in another thread and I believe it went something like this…a lifelong commitment between two consenting adults based on love.
Incest causes birth defects so there is a problem with it. If one or both parties were sterilized I would see nothing wrong with it though I think it would be morally wrong to try to have kids knowing the large chance of birth defects.Is Incest cool in your book? It fits this definition rather snug.
OK, so if a man or woman is infertile they can’t get married either?I would prefer to know what it is, not what is 'something like. Meanwhile, I would defend the following “conjugal view” of marriage. It comes from a paper called “What Is Marriage?” (I started a thread on it that includes a link to a copy of the article, which appeared in the Winter 2010 issue of the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy. It makes no appeal to religious authority.)
Marriage is the union of a man and a woman
who make a permanent and exclusive commitment to each other
of the type that is naturally (inherently) fulfilled by bearing and
rearing children together. The spouses seal (consummate) and
renew their union by conjugal acts—acts that constitute the behavioral
part of the process of reproduction, thus uniting them
as a reproductive unit. Marriage is valuable in itself, but its inherent
orientation to the bearing and rearing of children contributes
to its distinctive structure, including norms of
monogamy and fidelity. This link to the welfare of children also
helps explain why marriage is important to the common good
and why the state should recognize and regulate it.
It seems genetic entropy is upon us already.Incest causes birth defects so there is a problem with it. If one or both parties were sterilized I would see nothing wrong with it though I think it would be morally wrong to try to have kids knowing the large chance of birth defects.