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fix
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Innocence can mean uncorrupted by evil. I have it quite correct. Children are innocent unless corrupted by those with an evil agenda.
Children can be quite aware of absurdity.
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Children can be quite aware of absurdity.
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fix
Guest
It is mostly emotionalism combined with a post modern mindset that worships scientism.
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fix
Guest
I agree. Only the Holy Spirit can cut through all the propaganda. Faith and reason are needed.
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fix
Guest
Because teaching vice is helpful to children and our culture?
The answer to bad behavior is not teaching how to act badly.
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epan
Guest
I presumed nothing. I just repeated CDC statistics, and pointed out that children should be well educated in such matters as condom use. They should also be educated in the value of abstinence. About 20 years ago, about 60% of males in the same age range were having sex. The numbers have come down significantly.
Lisa, you presumed quite a bit when you read my post. Why?
You mention prurient interest and titilation in sex education classes. I don’t know what your experience was, but that was not mine. Is this a Catholic thing, this fascination with sex? It seems to take up more time and space here than on any other blogs I have visited, other than blogs which might actually be on the topic of human sexuality. I am starting to think that a perverse fascination with sexual activity is a characteristic of Catholic culture, or at least among the hyper-conservative Catholics, who seem the most prevalent here. Is this a fair statement?
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edwest2
Guest
That was the mantra repeated very often, starting in the early 1970s. Somehow, in ancient times, like a few years previous, parents were able to instill what their children needed to know about male-female relationships and the importance of marriage. In the 1960s, we had only a handful of STDs, today we have a lot more. You had to take blood tests before you got married.
Then, in the ‘modern’ early 1970s, parents became too stupid, afraid or embarrassed to talk to their kids about how things work. It worked for them. But no, apparently some “experts” forced everybody to teach teens about sex, and the message was spread that “they’re going to do it anyway.” Which was a lie. We knew that a baby would be the result of having sex. We knew that having sex before marriage, much less multiple sex partners, was a sin. It was drilled into our heads. They started to make virginity sound like a bad thing.
But it was all part of the plan. Get young people to stop listening to mom and dad - who were magically rendered unable to fulfill the role of educating their children. All the better for outsiders to convince us that “you can’t control yourselves,” which I’m sure boosted sales of artificial contraceptives and confused the heck out of teenagers, like me. Having sex is not rocket science. Relationships gradually did not matter as much as the right, wrong way to do it.
Sick.
Peace,
Ed
But no, the radicals who were telling us to smoke dope and live with our girlfriends also got to school boards and “proved” that our parents had, within a few years, become incompetent. “They” would teach us.
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Bradski
Guest
So would you be happy if your child called someone a pervert? Or a sicko? Or a deviant?
Incidentally, I can’t ever recall discussing homosexuality with my kids. The subject never came up as far as I remember. And it was never to my knowledge mentioned in any way at their schools (both Catholic schools by the way). But they both know gay people and have no problems with it whatsoever.
I think that if they saw that I’d written that gay people were perverted sickos and deviants, they’d probably be ashamed of me. How would your kids feel, Maximus?
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maximus
Guest
Just because someone uses a contraceptive efficiently it does not mean that there is no associated failure rate. Condoms/other barriers give a false sense of confidence against STDs because they break and are not as effective as some people think.
As a middle school child in D.R. we had a Canadian priest teaching us how the real facts regarding the of the use of contraceptives, including failure rates and side effects. Also, we were taught how the different abortion methods worked and how they were done and consequent side effects and risks associated. It seems these are presented here in the US without telling the whole story to appease certain agendas. For us Catholics we have NFP which works in harmony with our bodies, is superior to any chemical or barrier contraceptive. It does not violate our sexual ethics as long as used in the context of marriage.
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Bradski
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Yeah, right. This from here: mydr.com.au/babies-pregnancy/contraception-natural-family-planning
Some of the disadvantages of natural family planning are that:
it requires extensive instruction and many steps to predict ovulation (fertile period);
couples must be highly motivated;
it may result in periods of sexual frustration during periods of abstinence;
since the length of menstrual cycles and the day of ovulation may vary each month, the timing of intercourse must be adjusted accordingly; and
in practice, it is not as reliable as other methods of birth control.
So how would this work? All teenage girls keep a regular check on their fertility cycle? And only have sex when they are least fertile? Are you trying to actually increase the number of abortions?
And what did your kids say about you classing people as perverted sickos and deviants? Did you get a chance to ask them?
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maximus
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The context was grown ups teaching elementary children anything they pleased in the areas of sexuality and those of us opposed that we should just suck it up and allow it to happen to our children. Only a deviant and sicko would expose elementary school children to some of the things discussed here. I stand by the comment.
Now, two adults engaged in SS relationships that is their business. I do not celebrate them nor berate them. In fact at work the people constantly making gay jokes about a certain co-worker are harden liberals who brag about how for they supportive they are of the SS lifestyles. I would not make jokes about this individual’s lifestyle; I am privately sadden for him but it is his decision. I saw my child play with children of a SSL couple and allowed it. What I am against mainly is giving liberal agendas power to punish those would disagree with their agendas. I am a free Catholic who defends his right to raise my child as such and his right to worship.
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maximus
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NFP for Catholics that are bound to he Church’s moral code; if they chose to ignore it it is their business. I never said that NFP should be taught universally its use for within a Catholic marriage.
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edwest2
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Wow. That should be a on bumper stickers and bulletin boards.
Case in point. I was driving through the bad part of Detroit and I saw a billboard with a black father and child eating fruit. The text read: “If they see you do it, they’ll do it too.” Now this applies here in the sense that instead of hiring some nutrition counselor at your local school, mom and/or dad are more than capable of not only teaching their kids good eating habits but instilling other good behaviors in them as well. It’s time to dump the outside experts, and put mom and/or dad back in the driver’s seat.
Peace,
Ed
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Bradski
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Do you think Maximus is expert enough in regards contraception? He thinks that NFP is more efficient than chemical or barrier methods. It just goes to show the need for greater education.
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epan
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I guess I just take the more pragmatic approach. If 40% of teens are going to have sex, then I think they should be well educated on the topic. The average pair of 16 year olds is not going to practice NFP. Education on the benefits of abstinence, as well as how to protect themselves otherwise from STD’s, and unwanted pregnancy, is important information for them to have.
Find one parent who can honestly say that their teen child has not made mistakes, or disobeyed them. We can be certain that about 40% of them will be having sex. So, let’s be realistic about it.
NFP is imperfect, and so are seat belts. I don’t buy the argument that imperfect safety measures should be discarded any more than I buy the fantasy that a large number of teens won’t be having sex together.
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CrimsonThorn
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Condoms dont prevent HPV. HPV is the leading cause of cervical cancer in females. What now?
Do we keep pushing condom use or get to the root of the problem with proper education?
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october_baby
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That dude was tottaly uncouth!
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edwest2
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More efficient? That assumes a lot. The natural role for most men and women is to get married and have children. For others, they either choose not to marry or have or develop conditions where having children is not possible. Adoption is an option.
Our bodies are naturally designed to do certain things and most healthy adults can do those things. I was there when babies were considered ‘bundles of joy’ and a gift from God. The marketing campaign for artificial contraceptives started with the premise that babies were undesirable.
I was born in the mid 1950s. There was no birth control pill. All of the neighborhoods around me had an an average of two - two kids per family - per block.
I think another poster here mentioned the failure potential of condoms, the carcinogenic and other health risks associated with The Pill, and spermicidal foams and barrier methods are not foolproof.
You’re on a Catholic forum so some of us are trying to present the fact that the Playboy, Hugh Hefner philosophy that sex is primarily for pleasure is absolutely wrong. 100% wrong. Sex is something that happens only after marriage and it involves the full giving of one to the other. Orgasms are the icing on the cake. The world you’re talking about only wants icing. In our world, you need cake.
Now that the mass media has removed love as a reason for relationships, we have people engaging in ‘just sex,’ like using a toilet. This may be suitable for dogs but not human beings. Creating this illusion causes a dissociation that robs male-female relationships of their full dimension. In fact, one goal is to remove gender from the picture entirely. Whatever produces sexual pleasure is viewed as acceptable, robbing each of us of the most necessary dimension - love.
The sexual deviants need to get out of our schools. Parents, not perverts, should be the educators of their own children, and if they feel they are not fully informed, should be able to have ready access to all the information on their own. Little Jimmy does not need to be shown the right way to put on a condom. What he needs is information, not from some pervert stranger, but from mom and/or dad. And what all young people need to be taught - above all - is what love means, including in marriage. What self-control, self-respect, decency in speech and dress mean. In the past, parents, not sexual deviants, advised you about the people you were dating, because marriage involves families - both families.
Sex is a tiny part of that, and no, Catholics don’t think sex is dirty, but we don’t look kindly at young people, or adults, who try to convince our kids, “Go ahead. Have sex with your girlfriend. You know you want to.”
It shows the need for more home schooling.
Peace,
Ed
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epan
Guest
Can you explain the apparent fascination? Do you know of any other religious discussion site which shares it? dude?That dude was tottaly uncouth!
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LisaA
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A couple of points, even if the CDC has statistics that about 42% of teens are sexually active, it doesn’t mean those teens are necessarily ignorant about sexual matters. They may be well educated in biology, contraception and avoiding STDs. There’s nothing in those figures that indicate a lack of knowledge or a lot of knowledge. IOW that X% of teens are engaging in sex doesn’t mean that the schools should or must provide sex education. So rather than my presuming anything, it seemed like you presumed something about these teens.
There has been quite a bit of news in recent years about the graphic or provacative nature of sex education in schools. And frankly much of it, I believe, is due to homosexuals wanting their practices detailed as part of the discussion. Many of the stories about these graphic and highly charged curricula dealt with homosexual activity. Further in a purported effort to prevent pregnancy, some teen sex education encourages oral or anal sex. Now the reality that while pregnancy might be prevented, STDs are even MORE likely to be spread with such activity, but that does not make the cut in these classes.
One of the major culprits here is Planned Parenthoood with its graphic websites and materials. They come into the schools under an “assumed name” and provide sex education classes, written materials and references to websites. I don’t recall the name of the site but it is directed at teens and is VERY VERY graphic. Further instead of encouraging the teen NOT to engage in sexual activity the material is very persuasive that “hey nothing wrong with exploring and experimenting.” Again I think it’s more indoctrination than education. The material is not scientific with charts and graphs and statistics believe me.
As to your theory about repressed Catholics talking about sex, if you are on a thread that refers to homosexuals, since that is their stated identification (sexual practices) of course it’s going to be about sexual matters. I am sure if you find this talk disturbing you can find a LOT of non-sexual threads and subjects.
Lisa
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PeaceInChrist
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So you want to require that sexual education be taught in schools according to your moral or ethical code (which is proclaimed to somehow have some kind of superiority over our Catholic sexual ethics, despite the required absence of moral absolutes in atheistic worldview), and yet have a problem with a parent teaching THEIR child about sex and sexual ethics through a Catholic lens? Not sure if serious…?
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