Gay Marriage in America

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Nate13 said:
No I said I want him to follow whatever is more likely to lead him to the Truth in the given situation haha. But forgive me if I ask as is necessary in this day and age, did you take the time to ask the soldier next to you what “loyalty” meant to him 😉 Being “loyal” in and of itself means nothing. Loyal to what end is what matters. Its like saying you want the soldier next to you to be for the “progress” of the unit. Progress to what end though? The radical Islamic might see progress or loyalty as finding a way to get you all killed. Do you really believe that “loyalty” means the same thing to a Christian, Jew, Muslim, druid, pagan, and atheist haha?
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Yes, I do expect that loyalty to the unit is the same for Christian, Jews, Muslims, druids, pagans and atheist. This is not political correctness, it is real life. The soldier will soon make apparent to his mates where his loyalties lie; I would not expect a particular religion to stand out. Benedict Arnold thought of himself as a Christian, did not stop him from betraying Washington.
 
Wardog said:
And it was the lesbians who responded.
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Yes. One was asked to come back when she got in shape and could do twenty pushups. I wonder how many heterosexuals could do ten or twenty pushups.
 
StAnastasia said:
John, I don’t know what society you live in, but where I live our society is strong and vibrant. In our Catholic school I have been co-room parent with a lesbian mother of my son’s friend. Our school is bursting at the seams, the parish liturgies are vibrant, the Latin Mass is well-attended, and the outreach to the poor and homeless is heartfelt and substantial.

If the fabric of society is tearing because we no treat LGBT people as human beings, I can’t see any evidence of the rips. I recognize it might be different in parts of the country with high unemployment, where one might naturally point the finger at gay and lesbian couples and say “It’s them; they are the ones who are ruining the fabric of society! Let’s go get rid of them!”
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Um, speaking of a University education 😉 … [staying within logical argument? ;)]

I could have sworn that the title of the thread, and the OP’s theme, was gay marriage in America. I don’t see the logical argument of bringing into the discussion a more tolerant social atmosphere, high unmeployment, “vibrant liturgies,” full enrollment at a particular (“our”) Catholic school, attendance at a particular Mass, etc.

The institution of marriage, and the definition of that, is irrelevant to the anecdotal sentiments you have introduced. And gay “marriage” is not required for full social tolerance, full Christian charity, or the enforcement of constitutional protections.
 
StAnastasia said:
Yes. One was asked to come back when she got in shape and could do twenty pushups. I wonder how many heterosexuals could do ten or twenty pushups.
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You are kidding, right? You think the Marines take recruits who can’t do 20 push-ups?
 
Nate13 said:
@ChestertonRules

I love your Chesterton quote btw 😉

I think Catholicguy100 could take something from that quote. The beauty of Catholicism is not that it takes two ideals, white and red, and turns them into pink. The beauty is that it takes white and red and shows how they can exist together harmoniously. For example with Catholicism we can both celebrate the celibacy of priest at the same time as we celebrate the sacredness of marriage. We can celebrate the Trappist monk who lives his life apart from the World and the Pope who communicates with millions of people.
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Exactly. That’s very Chestertonian thinking!

He compares the Church’s view of martyrdom vs. suicide.

Martyrdom is praised and suicide is condemned.

The martyr has found something worth dying for while the person who commits suicide has found nothing worth living for.
 
EasterJoy said:
You are kidding, right? You think the Marines take recruits who can’t do 20 push-ups?
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That’s what the news story said. Maybe they got it wrong. I haven’t checked into the Marines’ requirements.
 
I could have sworn that the title of the thread, and the OP’s theme, was gay marriage in America. I don’t see the logical argument of bringing into the discussion a more tolerant social atmosphere, high unmeployment, “vibrant liturgies,” full enrollment at a particular (“our”) Catholic school, attendance at a particular Mass, etc.
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Read the post to which I was responding.
And gay “marriage” is not required for full social tolerance, full Christian charity, or the enforcement of constitutional protections.
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Quite true.
 
"Elizabeth502:
I could have sworn that the title of the thread, and the OP’s theme, was gay marriage in America. I don’t see the logical argument of bringing into the discussion a more tolerant social atmosphere, high unmeployment, “vibrant liturgies,” full enrollment at a particular (“our”) Catholic school, attendance at a particular Mass, etc.
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StAnastasia said:
Read the post to which I was responding.
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I read it. Your post is still outside of the scope of the argument.
"Elizabeth502:
And gay “marriage” is not required for full social tolerance, full Christian charity, or the enforcement of constitutional protections.
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StAnastasia said:
Quite true.
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Then your anecdotes about local tolerance are irrelevant.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
You claimed that all discrimination against Christian groups who support traditional morality with regards to homosexuality is fake.
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You provided no evidence for your claims, and sedonaman blew you out of the water in post #147, to which you have failed to respond.
 
StAnastasia said:
So? And?
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Why introduce them if they have nothing to illumine the argument that homosexual “marriage” is not required by tolerance, by constitutional rights, by Christian charity? All they are is soft sentiments about you feel about your geographical world, not about the topic at hand on the thread.

That’s the “so” and the “and.” :rolleyes:
 
Nate13 said:
Catholic adoption agencies shut down when they become required by law to let homosexual couples adopt kids and have no conscientious way of opting out. The opinions of the source should be ample proof of its unbias to this regard haha.
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Catholic adoption agencies which accepted government funding shut down, or severed their links with the Catholic Church when they become required by law to let homosexual couples adopt kids.

If you accept government funding then you have to accept the government;'s rules. If you are exclusively privately funded then you have more freedom to act.

rossum
 
Elizabeth502 said:
Why introduce them if they have nothing to illumine the argument that homosexual “marriage” is not required by tolerance, by constitutional rights, by Christian charity? All they are is soft sentiments about you feel about your geographical world, not about the topic at hand on the thread.
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I was responding to Rock Happy in post 111. I said nothing about homosexual “marriage” being required by tolerance or constitutional rights.
 
StAnastasia said:
You provided no evidence for your claims, and sedonaman blew you out of the water in post #147, to which you have failed to respond.
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FYI:

Catholic Charities to end Adoptions
boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/03/11/catholic_charities_stuns_state_ends_adoptions/

British Catholic Charities to end Adoptions
csmonitor.com/Business/The-Adam-Smith-Institute-Blog/2010/0827/British-Catholic-adoption-agency-closes

Teacher suspended for Supporting Traditional Values
blog.faithandfreedom.us/2011/08/teacher-suspending-for-opposing-gay.html

University professor suspended for teaching Catechism
patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/07/14/university-of-illinois-professor-fired-for-being-anti-gay/

Swedish Pastor prosecuted for teaching that homosexuality is a sin
chalcedon.edu/research/articles/swedish-pastor-faces-jail-for-preaching-against-homosexuality/
 
Eugenius said:
Lord Devlin’s piece also applies to heterosexuals who go home and then get divorced. Oddly nobody seems to notice that the moral fabric of our culture is already in tatters, it didn’t start with homosexuals wanting to get married.
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That’s exactly the point I have been trying to make. It can simply be bored workers going home each night and getting blind drunk, or a vast bulk of a population going home and getting as high as kites on illicit drugs. Or it can be an ever increasing number of heterosexual couples who are breaking the bonds of marriage. Devlins was making the single point that there comes a point where private behaviour can become so widespread that it has an impact on the greater social fabric. We allow individual rights for certain behaviours to the extent that eventually there is greater social harm. Devlin says that even tolerance must have its limits. And yes, the principle also applies to the increasing lack of respect for the institution of marriage and its disastrous consequences for the young victims of marriage breakups - the kids.
 
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