Gay Marriage in America

[michelleds]

I have been reading a lot about the Catholic viewpoint that defense of the family is the real issue regarding gay marriage. I’m on board with that. In any Catholic group, institution, college, parish, etc. we have the right to call it as we see it.

How do I transfer that viewpoint to others in the USA? In other words, in the U.S. there is an expectation or view which holds that as long as one doesn’t harm another, he/she is allowed the freedom to do as they like. “It’s a free country.” Why should I try to enact a law that is restrictive of ANY behavior that doesn’t cause direct, obvious harm to another?

While I don’t think homosexual behavior is morally correct, why should I try try to interfere with people who choose live that way? How does that behavior become my concern? Isn’t it the right of everyone in America to think, believe, and act as they choose as long as they don’t harm others? As a Catholic-American, do I have a duty to try to prevent legal gay-marriage?

Can anyone help me on this question?

Glennonite

Going back to the OP. I think you are going to have to decide if you a Relativist or a Catholic. There’s nothing that I can recall in the Bible or Tradition that would support a belief system of do what you want as long as no one gets hurt. Check out the 10 Commandments, #1, 2, 3, 9 and 10 are “victimless”.

1. I, the Lord, am your God. You shall not have other gods besides me.

2. You shall not take the name of the Lord God in vain

3. Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day

4. Honor your father and your mother

5. You shall not kill

6. You shall not commit adultery

7. You shall not steal

8. You shall not bear false witness

9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife

10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods

Matthew 22:36-40:
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Notice that there’s nothing there about do whatever you want as long as you aren’t hurting anyone else. Nor is there anything in there about support, advocate or legislate everything that anybody wants to do.

Finally, you said While I don’t think homosexual behavior is morally correct, why should I try try to interfere with people who choose live that way?

What about the idea that those same people are trying to interfere with how you live and believe and raise your children?

America is a Republic and everyone gets to have a say. You have every right to say and believe what you want without having to change or alter your statements to agree with someone else. Think this through. Adam and Bob are both Americans. Adam thinks that flag-burning is protected speech. Bob thinks it’s unpatriotic and hate speech. Can’t they both speak to their beliefs? should one or the other HAVE to agree with the opposite in the name of tolerance? isn’t that silly? what if one of them is a veteran? does his opinion count for more? It cannot count for more, it might make his argument more persuasive to others, but it doesn’t give his opinion more weight or credibility. why should same sex marriage be any different?

 

[StAnastasia]

I know “disordered” is the church’s wording, but do you happen to know the word that was used to write the original document in Latin? I’m wondering if it resonates with as much emotional weight.

CATECHISMUS CATHOLICAE ECCLESIAE

1. Homosexualitas relationes designat inter viros vel mulieres qui sexualem experiuntur allectationem exclusive vel praevalenter erga eiusdem sexus personas. Per saecula et culturas, formas induit valde diversas. Eius psychica origo manet magna ex parte non explicata. Traditio, sacra nitens Scriptura, quae eos tamquam graves depravationes praesentat, 238 semper declaravit « actus homosexualitatis suapte intrinseca natura esse inordinatos ». 239 Legi naturali sunt contrarii. Actum sexualem dono praecludunt vitae. E vera complementaritate affectiva et sexuali non procedunt. Nullo in casu possent accipere approbationem.

 

[michelleds]

In my experience, the people who argue most vociferously against homosexuality are very frequently people who are anxious and uncertain about their own sexual orientation. After all, if you were secure in your heterosexuality (as I am), why would you even be interested in interfering in someone else’s sexuality?

I am a person with SSA, Anastasia, so I guess I get to have an opinion.

 

[StAnastasia]

What a sad commentary on contemporary mores.

I suspect before long we will have another schism in the Catholic Church. In my parish I’m considered something of a dinosaur for opposing gay “marriage.”

 

[TMC]

Leaving the Church is apostacy. It’s latae sententiae excommunication. If they died as Muslims, they would not have salvation, because there beliefs would reject Christ as the Son of God, and consequently, his Divine Mercy. They would not be able to plead invincible ignorance because they are already have the gifts of the Holy Spirit through Baptism.

The Muslim issue is not that they believe those who don’t believe are condemned, but that those who convert away from the faith must be killed. There’s no comparison with Catholic teaching.

You like to use the word “superstitious”. Since you believe that those who are against homosexuality are insecure about their own sexuality, does your constant repetition of the word “superstition” indicate you are in bondage to superstition?

Do you practice the occult in any way, shape, or form?

The Church does not teach that all Muslims go to hell, or even that all Caholics that convert to Islam go to hell, and the Church certainly does not teach that children that follow the faith of their adoptive parents go to hell.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I suspect before long we will have another schism in the Catholic Church. In my parish I’m considered something of a dinosaur for opposing gay “marriage.”

There already are several parishes in schism in my area. St. Stanislaus is one, and it’s a sad story.

Sadly, the parishioners cannot agree with one another and the situation is deteriorating. At traditional Polish church got hijacked by a homosexual priest. He now lives in a loft and drives a rented BMW because life in the rectory is too “stressful.”

The original parishioners want to get back in union with Rome, but the gays and lesbians on the board won’t agree.

That’s what happens when you go into schism.

STA, not to worry though, there are many, many orthodox parishes in union with the bishop of Rome you can join.

 

[rossum]

One of the great mysteries to me is how the public health aspects of gay sex are ignored.

Quite right. Lesbians have a lower rate of STDs than those following the heterosexual lifestyle. The majority of people with AIDS are heterosexual women.

rossum

 

[StAnastasia]

There already are several parishes in schism in my area. St. Stanislaus is one, and it’s a sad story.

I know – I’ve read about it.

Sadly, the parishioners cannot agree with one another and the situation is deteriorating. At traditional Polish church got hijacked by a homosexual priest. He now lives in a loft and drives a rented BMW because life in the rectory is too “stressful.”

 

[Eugenius]

CATECHISMUS CATHOLICAE ECCLESIAE

1. Homosexualitas relationes designat inter viros vel mulieres qui sexualem experiuntur allectationem exclusive vel praevalenter erga eiusdem sexus personas. Per saecula et culturas, formas induit valde diversas. Eius psychica origo manet magna ex parte non explicata. Traditio, sacra nitens Scriptura, quae eos tamquam graves depravationes praesentat, 238 semper declaravit « actus homosexualitatis suapte intrinseca natura esse inordinatos ». 239 Legi naturali sunt contrarii. Actum sexualem dono praecludunt vitae. E vera complementaritate affectiva et sexuali non procedunt. Nullo in casu possent accipere approbationem.

Thank you!

 

[StAnastasia]

I am a person with SSA, Anastasia, so I guess I get to have an opinion.

Indeed - everyone has a right to an opinion.

 

[qui_est_ce]

My parish is administered by Dominicans. They don’t plan to leave!

Sounds to me like they already have left Rome if what you say about your parish is true.

PS, you need to remove the extra

from your replies, it really messes up replying properly. I removed the last few for you.

 

[StAnastasia]

Sounds to me like they already have left Rome if what you say about your parish is true.

Maybe they have. But they still wear vestments and use Latin, and the liturgy still follows the Roman Missal, and will follow the new on begiining with Advent. I’ve already adopted the new wording “consubstantial,” but I’m used to saying that from visiting England.

PS, you need to remove the extra from your replies, it really messes up replying properly. I removed the last few for you.

Thanks – I thought I had been doing that.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Maybe they have. But they still wear vestments and use Latin, and the liturgy still follows the Roman Missal, and will follow the new on begiining with Advent. I’ve already adopted the new wording “consubstantial,” but I’m used to saying that from visiting England.

If they’re using Latin, they do not need to worry about the the English translation of the Roman Missal.

The Sed’s use the Latin and wear robes too.

There’s much more to being Catholic than vestments and word usage.

 

[StAnastasia]

If they’re using Latin, they do not need to worry about the the English translation of the Roman Missal. The Sed’s use the Latin and wear robes too. There’s much more to being Catholic than vestments and word usage.

Not all the Masses are in Latin – only one, in fact. And yes, I understand that vestments and words do not a Catholic parish make.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Not all the Masses are in Latin – only one, in fact. And yes, I understand that vestments and words do not a Catholic parish make.

Just trying to be logical and address your posts as exactly as I can…

 

[Groundhog_Day]

I have been reading a lot about the Catholic viewpoint that defense of the family is the real issue regarding gay marriage. I’m on board with that. In any Catholic group, institution, college, parish, etc. we have the right to call it as we see it.

How do I transfer that viewpoint to others in the USA? In other words, in the U.S. there is an expectation or view which holds that as long as one doesn’t harm another, he/she is allowed the freedom to do as they like. “It’s a free country.” Why should I try to enact a law that is restrictive of ANY behavior that doesn’t cause direct, obvious harm to another?

While I don’t think homosexual behavior is morally correct, why should I try try to interfere with people who choose live that way? How does that behavior become my concern? Isn’t it the right of everyone in America to think, believe, and act as they choose as long as they don’t harm others? As a Catholic-American, do I have a duty to try to prevent legal gay-marriage?

Can anyone help me on this question?

Glennonite

Who would have thought that homosexuality might be the thing that finally buries the CC. If the CC can’t find a reasonable and legitimate voice, it will only become more irrelevant. But who would have thought that the beginning of the end would be over incompetence handling the child molestation issue, and then an inability to support human rights? Time will tell, but historic events are so mercurial.

 

[Nate13]

Who would have thought that homosexuality might be the thing that finally buries the CC. If the CC can’t find a reasonable and legitimate voice, it will only become more irrelevant. But who would have thought that the beginning of the end would be over incompetence handling the child molestation issue, and then an inability to support human rights? Time will tell, but historic events are so mercurial.

haha if contraception didn’t bring the Church down I highly doubt the issue of homosexual marriage will. People have been wishing the Catholic Church would just go away for as long as it has been around so don’t consider yourself to be to special in that regard Go research how St. Ignatius died back in the early days of the Church and then come back and tell me you really believe that Church will ever collapse as long as people like that are around.

 

[Incomplete]

Who would have thought that homosexuality might be the thing that finally buries the CC. If the CC can’t find a reasonable and legitimate voice, it will only become more irrelevant.

The Catholic Church will not be buried. As the previous poster said, many have wished for that over the centuries. It won’t happen.

But just so you know, the Church doesn’t exist to be relevant. It won’t change it’s teachings to be relevant, at least not by the standards that most imply when they make a statement like yours. It exists for truth. Of course, some of us believe that truth is always relevant.

 

[LittleSoldier]

n=35 and 29 sound like small sample sizes. Are we to extrapolate this out to the whole society of 330 million? Were these subjects selected at random? How was “homophobia” and “non-homophobia” determined? Self-evaluation?

I noticed the low n, too, and that raised a red flag for me. I checked the site that was linked but didn’t see anything but the abstract and no links to the rest of the study. Maybe I missed them? Like you I would want to see the operational definitions for “homophobia” and “non-homophobia.” I would add “aggression” as this was also measured.

Without knowing everything that was done it’s really hard to know how to utilize this obviously limited research study.

 

[LittleSoldier]

They are a family unit. And one of their daughters is an altar server. Oh, I know you probably think that puts her halfway to hell, taking away a spot from an altar boy.

Oh dear, *so *uncharitable!!