Gay marriage OK because homosexuals born that way and deserve to have romantic relationships too?

[AveSantaMaria]

Out from Under: The Impact of Homosexual Parenting

secularheretic-st.blogspot.com/2009/01/out-from-under-impact-of-homosexual.html
Here is an extract from Dawn’s web site. Dawn Stefanowicz

My name is Dawn Stefanowicz, I grew up in a homosexual household during the 60s and 70s in Toronto, exposed to many different people in the GLBT (Gay, Lesbian, bisexual, Transsexual) subcultures, and explicit sexual practices.

I have considered some of the potential physical and psychological health risks for children raised in this situation. I was at high risk of exposure to contagious STDs due to sexual molestation, my father’s high-risk sexual behaviors, and multiple partners. Even when my father was in what looked like monogamous relationships, he continued cruising for anonymous sex.

I came to deeply care for, love and compassionately understand my dad. He shared his life regrets with me. Unfortunately, my father, as a child, was sexually and physically abused by older males. Due to this, he lived with depression, control issues, anger outbursts, suicidal tendencies, and sexual compulsions. He tried to fulfill his legitimate needs for his father’s affirmation, affection and attention with transient and promiscuous relationships. He and his partners were exposed to various contagious STD’s as they traveled across North America. My father’s (ex)partners, whom I had deep caring feelings for and associated with, had drastically shortened lives due to suicide, contracting HIV or Aids. Sadly, my father died of AIDS in 1991.

According to a growing number of personal testimonies, experts, and organizations, there is mounting evidence of strong commonalities to my personal experiences. Not only do children do best with both a mother and a father in a lifelong marriage bond, children need responsible monogamous parents who have no extramarital sexual partners. Parental promiscuity, abuse and divorce are not good for children.

From a young age, I was exposed to explicit sexual speech, self-indulgent lifestyles, varied GLBT subcultures and gay vacation spots. Sex looked gratuitous to me as a child. I was exposed to all inclusive manifestations of sexuality including bathhouse sex, cross-dressing, sodomy, pornography, gay nudity, lesbianism, bisexuality, minor recruitment, voyeurism and exhbitionism. Sado-masochism was allued to and aspects demonstrated. Alcohol and drugs were often contributing factors to lower inhibitions in my father’s relationships.

My father prized unisex dressing, gender-neutral aspects and a famous cross-dressing icon when I was eight years old. I did not see the value of biological complementing differences of male and female or think about marriage. I made vows to never have children since I had not gorwn up in a safe, sacrificial, child-centered home environment. I can tell you that I suffered long term in this situation, and this has been professionally documented.

Over two decades of direct exposure to these stressful experiences caused me insecurity, depression, suicidal thoughts, dread, anxiousness, low self-esteem, sleeplessness and sexuality confusion. My conscience and innocence were seriously damaged. I witnessed that every other family member suffered severely as well.

Marriage needs to remain a societal foundation that constitutes, represents, and defends inherently procreative relationship between the husband and the wife for the welfare of their biological children. Children need consistent appropriate boundaries and secure expressions of emotional intimacy that are not sexualized in the home and community.

Why is such a small, unrepresentative clique within the GLBT subcultures wanting same-sex marriage? Mr. John McKellar, Executive Director of H.O.P.E. (Homosexuals Opposed to Pride Extremism) has stated, and I quote:

“It is selfish and rude for the gay community to push same-sex marriage legislation and redefine society’s traditions and conventions for our own self-indulgence… Federal and provincial laws are being changed and the traditional values are being compromised just to appease a tiny, self anointed clique.”

In my opnion, same-sex marriage will put the human rights of the individual in a higher place than what is best for society, families and especially children. Human rights were meant to protect the individual and not groups. In this crucial debate, children’s human rights have become secondary, ignored and denied.

Already this is happening under the banner of anti-bullying, safe schools’ policies and through Gay-Straight Alliances. In reality, these policies provide a direct legal entranceway of indoctrination, desensitization, personal and political recruitment of our vulnerable children by some gay activists within our schools while silencing all students who oppose the gay agenda.

Dawn’s book, “Out from Under: The Impact of Homosexual Parenting.” is now available for book orders at Annotation Books or by calling 1-877-421-READ (7323) Toll-Free or calling 1-360-802-9758 if outside of the U.S.

 

[Corki]

I think if you’re going to argue against gay marriage, you must also be prepared to explain why half the Catholics in America admit to ignoring the Vaticans rules against artificial birth control.

That’s such an easy explanation. The Church continues to teach that artificial birth control, within or out of marriage, is a grave sin. The fact that people ignore the “Vaticans (sic) rules” is irrelevant. Morality isn’t determined by popular vote.

Not to mention why Jacob, from the Old Testament, had twelve wives, at least two of which were his cousins.

And…??? Polygamy was not all that unusual in early civilization. Not to mention that Jacob was pre-10 Commandments. What does that have to do with same sex marriage?

 

[buffalo]

Judaism’s Sexual Revolution: Why Judaism Rejected Homosexuality

When Judaism demanded that all sexual activity be channeled into marriage, it changed the world. The Torah’s prohibition of non-marital sex quite simply made the creation of Western civilization possible.

Societies that did not place boundaries around sexuality were stymied in their development. The subsequent dominance of the Western world can largely be attributed to the sexual revolution initiated by Judaism and later carried forward by Christianity.

more…

 

[apromisemade]

That’s such an easy explanation. The Church continues to teach that artificial birth control, within or out of marriage, is a grave sin. The fact that people ignore the “Vaticans (sic) rules” is irrelevant. Morality isn’t determined by popular vote.

Apparently some people think it is. Because, as you stated, the Church teaches ABC is wrong, but plenty of Catholics still use it. Lots of them will go on about truth and absolutism when defending a Church teaching they agree with, but when a teaching is inconvinient, they reason out in their own minds why it’s okay to ignore it. My point is a lot of people are going to look at that and say “clean up your own house before you criticize someone elses.”

And…??? Polygamy was not all that unusual in early civilization. Not to mention that Jacob was pre-10 Commandments. What does that have to do with same sex marriage?

That’s something I have asked over and over again. But every time I brought up the topic of gay marriage with someone, they always say the same thing right off the bat, “If you condone gay marriage, then you must also be prepared to defend polygamy too.”

It puzzles me that people would rail on about people who “cherry pick” with the Bible, but then when you bring up parts of the Bible, not to mention Church history, that challenge their views, they wave their hand and say “Ah well, that was back in the day.”

 

[court14]

Out from Under: The Impact of Homosexual Parenting

secularheretic-st.blogspot.com/2009/01/out-from-under-impact-of-homosexual.html
Here is an extract from Dawn’s web site. Dawn Stefanowicz

Dawn’s book, “Out from Under: The Impact of Homosexual Parenting.” is now available for book orders at Annotation Books or by calling 1-877-421-READ (7323) Toll-Free or calling 1-360-802-9758 if outside of the U.S.

Do you have a scientific study to back these ascertains?
This is one situation. To assume that all same sex couples engage in this type of behavior is as insane as assuming that heterosexuals who raise children all wife swap.

 

[court14]

Apparently some people think it is. Because, as you stated, the Church teaches ABC is wrong, but plenty of Catholics still use it. Lots of them will go on about truth and absolutism when defending a Church teaching they agree with, but when a teaching is inconvinient, they reason out in their own minds why it’s okay to ignore it. My point is a lot of people are going to look at that and say “clean up your own house before you criticize someone elses.”

That’s something I have asked over and over again. But every time I brought up the topic of gay marriage with someone, they always say the same thing right off the bat, “If you condone gay marriage, then you must also be prepared to defend polygamy too.”

It puzzles me that people would rail on about people who “cherry pick” with the Bible, but then when you bring up parts of the Bible, not to mention Church history, that challenge their views, they wave their hand and say “Ah well, that was back in the day.”

This is a good example of how beliefs and facts differ. It is often times a willful ignorance.

 

[court14]

Since when does economics not enter into morality? If a man can afford only one wife, then that becomes part of the fact situation, and if that becomes normal, people, even the wealthy, as a matter of convention will have only one wife. Gays right now are turning heaven and earth to create a new fact situation and demanding that public morality conform to it. It has earlier happened in the case of adultery, which has become acceptable
to a large degree.

As for the stone age stuff. new moralities are not necessarily more “liberating” than older ones.

You are confusing legality with morality.

 

[AveSantaMaria]

Do you have a scientific study to back these ascertains?
This is one situation. To assume that all same sex couples engage in this type of behavior is as insane assuming that heterosexuals who raise children all wife swap.

Yes, both scientific studies and evidence from gay magazines. I will only post a few of the studies now, but there are others that I can post if these studies are not sufficient.

David McWhirter and Andrew Mattison conducted a non-random study of 156 stable committed male homosexual couples. They found that none of the over 100 couples that had been together for more than 5 years had been sexually monogamous or exclusive. The authors, themselves a gay couple, argued that for male couples, sexual monogamy is a passing stage of homophobia and that many homosexuals separate emotional fidelity and sexual exclusivity. What matters for male couples is emotional not physical faithfulness. D. McWhirter and A Mattison, “The Male Couple: How Relationships Develop” (Englewood Cliffs, Prentice-Hall)

According to San Francisco muncipal STD clinic, gay-bisexual men report 7.9 different partners in 2 months in 2003. A graph with the average number of sex partners of gay/bisexual men, heterosexual men, and heterosexual women is there. Average number of partners for heterosexuals is around 5 in 12 months. Average number of partners for gay/bisexual men is around 20 and gay/bisexual men with HIV/AIDS have many more average partners than gay/bisexual men without HIV/AIDS. sfdph.org/dph/files/reports/StudiesData/STD/STD0408.pdf

NYC study: Center for Disease Control and Michael-Callen-Audre Lorde Community Health Center. Gay men with syphilis had about 16 partners in the prior 6 months while gay men without syphilis had about 11 partners.
“What we found was that many MSM (men who have sex with men), both cases and controls, were engaging in high risk sexual behaviors,” said Dr. Susan Blank, assistant commisioner of the city department’s Bureau of STD Control. "Specifically, that meant sex with multiple anonymous partners, unprotected anal intercourse, barebacking, recreational drug use before sex, and not discussing HIV status prior to sex with a partner. thebody.com/content/art28966.html

Bell and Weinberg reported evidence of widespread sexual compulsion among homsexual men. 83% of the homosexual men surveyed estimated they had had sex with 50 or more partners in their lifetime, 43% estimated they had sex with 500 or more partners; 28% with 1,000 or more partners. Bell and Weinberg p 308

The same study revealed that homosexual men have to a great extent separated sexuality from relationship. The survey showed 79% of the respondents saying that over half of their partners were strangers. Seventy percent said that over half of their sexual partners were people with whom they had sex only once. Bell and Weinberg pp. 308-309

In their study of the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals published in the Journal of Sex Research, Paul Van de Van et al. found that “the modal range for number of sexual partners ever [of homosexuals] was 101-500.” In addition, 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent had between 501 and 1000 partners. A further 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent reported having had more than 1000 lifetime sexual partners. Paul Van de Ven et al., “A Comparative Demographic and Sexual Profile of Older Homosexually Active Men,” Journal of Sex Research 34 (1997): 354

A survey conducted by the homosexual magazine Genre found that 24 percent of the respondents said they had had more than 100 sexual partners in their lifetime. The magazine noted that several respondents suggested including a category of those who had more than 1,000 sexual partners. “Sex Survey Results,” Genre (October 1996) quoted in “Survey Finds 40 percent of Gay Men Have Had More than 40 Sex Partners,” Lambda Report, January 1998, p. 20

exodusglobalalliance.org/ishomosexualityhealthyp60.php

 

[buffalo]

Apparently some people think it is. Because, as you stated, the Church teaches ABC is wrong, but plenty of Catholics still use it. Lots of them will go on about truth and absolutism when defending a Church teaching they agree with, but when a teaching is inconvinient, they reason out in their own minds why it’s okay to ignore it. My point is a lot of people are going to look at that and say “clean up your own house before you criticize someone elses.”

That’s something I have asked over and over again. But every time I brought up the topic of gay marriage with someone, they always say the same thing right off the bat, “If you condone gay marriage, then you must also be prepared to defend polygamy too.”

It puzzles me that people would rail on about people who “cherry pick” with the Bible, but then when you bring up parts of the Bible, not to mention Church history, that challenge their views, they wave their hand and say “Ah well, that was back in the day.”

The truth is never negated due to the fact people fail to live up to it.

 

[apromisemade]

The truth is never negated due to the fact people fail to live up to it.

That may be true, but no religion has the right to preach what they cannot practice to people outside their faith.

 

[court14]

That may be true, but no religion has the right to preach what they cannot practice to people outside their faith.

I agree but I think this is a non issue. The United States of America is not governed by the Roman Catholic Church. We don’t live in a theocracy.

 

[buffalo]

That may be true, but no religion has the right to preach what they cannot practice to people outside their faith.

If the religion is of man that is true, man is not capable. However, religion is of God.

Now the Catholic faith is a proposition not an imposition. You are free to choose.

The issue is do you know well enough what you are choosing against or is it hearsay?

 

[apromisemade]

I agree but I think this is a non issue. The United States of America is not governed by the Roman Catholic Church. We don’t live in a theocracy.

What does that have to do with anything?

I totally agree with you, we don’t live in a theocracy (thank dear merciful God). But how does that tie in with what I was saying? The point I was trying to make was Catholicism can teach whatever it want’s to people within its faith, but it really has no right to try to dictate to the rest of the country about gay marriage and such as it can’t even keep its own house in order with regards to sex and marriage (among other things).

 

[buffalo]

What does that have to do with anything?

I totally agree with you, we don’t live in a theocracy (thank dear merciful God). But how does that tie in with what I was saying? The point I was trying to make was Catholicism can teach whatever it want’s to people within its faith, but it really has no right to try to dictate to the rest of the country about gay marriage and such as it can’t even keep its own house in order with regards to sex and marriage (among other things).

and that is shooting the messenger regardless of the message.

 

[court14]

What does that have to do with anything?

I totally agree with you, we don’t live in a theocracy (thank dear merciful God). But how does that tie in with what I was saying? The point I was trying to make was Catholicism can teach whatever it want’s to people within its faith, but it really has no right to try to dictate to the rest of the country about gay marriage and such as it can’t even keep its own house in order with regards to sex and marriage (among other things).

I agree but my point was we are discussing law in the United States which isn’t governed by the Catholic Church. It doesn’t matter what the church teaches because the west is no longer subject to the Vatican.

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

Moral, truthful law and legal law should be the same else it isn’t authentic law, but the laws of lies and Death.

 

[court14]

Moral, truthful law and legal law should be the same else it isn’t authentic law, but the laws of lies and Death.

That sound like an easy task. Idealist Right?

 

[Cara_Serrano]

Has it been scientifically established that homosexuals are “born that way” as this post states?

 

[court14]

Has it been scientifically established that homosexuals are “born that way” as this post states?

Headed out the door but I will post the studies and their links a bit later. The idea is it is a combination of genetic markers on the x chromosome and/or an immune response of the mothers body in utero which leads to the male brain being less receptive to certain hormones. The brain develops more like a typical female brain. Not a definte yes but some strong conclusive evidence that it occurs before birth.

 

[court14]

Is Homophobia Associated With Homosexual Arousal?

…The results of this study indicate that individuals who score
in the homophobic range and admit negative affect toward homosexuality
demonstrate significant sexual arousal to male homosexual
erotic stimuli.

oogachaga.com/downloads/homophobia_and_homosexual_arousal.pdf

Interesting and I think somewhat relevant to the discussion at hand.