Gay marriage OK because homosexuals born that way and deserve to have romantic relationships too?

[pathia]

How do potential employers know about your sexual orientation? If they do not hire you, yet they do not know your sexual orientation, then maybe something else is going on. If they know about your sexual orientation, then there seems to be that there is something about you which makes it obvious. What could that be?

I am not doubting you, but I wonder at what they do to make it there business. And I wonder why.

I am not just a person with SSA, I am a intersexed (older term for this is hermaphrodite) and a transsexual. At 14 I rejected how they assigned me at birth and finally legally changed my name at 24. Anyone can look up the court order and see my name change from a male name to a female name. Thus they instantly know my history. Such background checks are common place in any but the most menial jobs now a days.

 

[buffalo]

I am not just a person with SSA, I am a intersexed (older term for this is hermaphrodite) and a transsexual. At 14 I rejected how they assigned me at birth and finally legally changed my name at 24. Anyone can look up the court order and see my name change from a male name to a female name. Thus they instantly know my history. Such background checks are common place in any but the most menial jobs now a days.

Are you kidding me. Nowadays an employer tries to get references from past employers - he gets yes they worked for us. Period. They won’t give out rate of pay, reason for leaving, work performance, etc…

 

[pathia]

Are you kidding me. Nowadays an employer tries to get references from past employers - he gets yes they worked for us. Period. They won’t give out rate of pay, reason for leaving, work performance, etc…

Well, those were there reasons for firing me in every case. As soon as they found out, they told me I would be a legal liability no matter which restroom I used, and canned me.

Every job I’ve had recently, including my current one, involved a drug test and an extensive background check, because we’re a contractor company. We work on customer’s sites, they have to make sure we’re not going to start stealing information/inventory from the customer. Even the most basic criminal background checks will find a name change, because it’s documented at every level of my identity. It’s with the DMV, the courts, social security, the IRS and many other government organizations.

 

[JDaniel]

My partner was prevented from visiting me in the hospital. I had to get a lawyer to file paperwork against my own family, because they had disowned me at the time, to block them from taking over my medical choices. This has happened dozens of times as reported in the media, and I would no t be surprised if its happened hundreds if not thousands of times and people just give up and don’t fight it.

I love my family dearly, but I don’t trust them anymore. I don’t trust them to do the right thing. My partner would gladly let them come visit, but they would not extend that right to him, not without legal threats.

pathia:

If all that you say has happened to you, then, you have run into some very rotten people. However, if you are recounting your several misfortunes in order to exact sympathy from straights, it won’t help your case.

Almost every straight male has been in a fight - probably more than once in his life. Probably every straight male has been beaten up, more than once in his life. Some have been hospitalized. Some have received good treatment while others have not.

We all stand there - as we are - and take life as it comes at us. There are proactive things you can do: go to the gym, for one. Grow big muscles. I have seen this work. Little, weak guys (and girls) are more likely to be picked on than large, strong ones. If you do not want to take pro-active steps to insure your safety, stay away from places where you might be pounced on. Or, travel in groups.

Good Lord! There are too many “victims” wandering this planet. Do something for yourself. There are no quick fixes. You scream out for more “rights”, but, all of those new rights won’t give you an ounce of additional protection. (I have a gay acquaintance who does go to the gym. He does not look like Arnold, but, he’s large enough so that no one cares to mess with him.) Stop being a victim.

Science has been searching for a gene that predisposes someone to homosexuality for over 100 years. Science can’t even find one that predisposes someone to heterosexuality. Yes, the jury may still be out - but, over 100 years of fairly intense searching? Shall we call the search over at 1,000 years?

JD

 

[pathia]

pathia:

If all that you say has happened to you, then, you have run into some very rotten people. However, if you are recounting your several misfortunes in order to exact sympathy from straights, it won’t help your case.

Almost every straight male has been in a fight - probably more than once in his life. Probably every straight male has been beaten up, more than once in his life. Some have been hospitalized. Some have received good treatment while others have not.

We all stand there - as we are - and take life as it comes at us. There are proactive things you can do: go to the gym, for one. Grow big muscles. I have seen this work. Little, weak guys (and girls) are more likely to be picked on than large, strong ones. If you do not want to take pro-active steps to insure your safety, stay away from places where you might be pounced on. Or, travel in groups.

Science has been searching for a gene that predisposes someone to homosexuality for over 100 years. Science can’t even find one that predisposes someone to heterosexuality. Yes, the jury may still be out - but, over 100 years of fairly intense searching? Shall we call the search over at 1,000 years?

JD

How many straights had someone corner them in a bathroom and have someone try to ‘rape them gay’?

I am a very sickly person with fragile bones. Literally, if I work out too much my bones will start snapping. It is genetic, there is nothing that can be done to repair it, I am lucky to be alive, if I lived even 50-75years ago, I probably would have died at birth or in the first decade of life.

I cannot do heavy physical labor, I am never allowed to lift more than 60lbs per doctor. I have something akin to osteoporosis, despite being only 28, it first developed at about 18.

All of these incidents are in the past, I’ve moved, found a good place to live, I do not need any sympathy for my current situation, my current situation is good. I am speaking of past events to show people how horrible things can be for those with SSA.

Science has been searching for causes of cancer, all sorts of birth disorders, many many many things, and has not found 100% cause in the large majority of them. Should we just call off that research too?

 

[Fran65]

Pathia,

Forgive me if I have misunderstood. You said earlier that you were intersex. That means that you don’t necessarily ‘have’ SSA. You may have chosen to be ‘allocated’ to the biologically ‘wrong’ sex. That may have occurred for many reasons.

In the UK we have a male comedian who is on record as saying that he is a lesbian trapped in a man’s body. I’m not sure if he meant it as a joke or not. But is this what you mean before your transition? Homosexual trapped in woman’s body? Lesbian trapped in a man’s? Its possible I guess, but ‘intersex’ is very, very complex - you know that!

Anyway, God Bless and I hope that I have not offended you.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

I am not just a person with SSA, I am a intersexed (older term for this is hermaphrodite) and a transsexual. At 14 I rejected how they assigned me at birth and finally legally changed my name at 24. Anyone can look up the court order and see my name change from a male name to a female name. Thus they instantly know my history. Such background checks are common place in any but the most menial jobs now a days.

That is just plain WRONG. It is strange how they say that everything about our lives has to be public record…and then expect that they can control persecution and discrimination. There will always be those that act horribly…but they will never be true Christians.

I wish I owned a company…I would ask you to come work for me. You have been abused, and I apologize for them. I would severly punish my child who ever did such a thing to another human being.

These laws, however, will not make people who are prejudiced against others and want to inflict pain on others from continuing to do so.
There are already laws in place for the kinds of things that were done to you…both in the work force and anywhere else. These are hate crimes, and discrimination laws.
Making homosexuals eligible for “marriage” will do nothing except change the legal aspect of what is owed to each of them by and because of this “marriage”.

 

[pathia]

Pathia,

Forgive me if I have misunderstood. You said earlier that you were intersex. That means that you don’t necessarily ‘have’ SSA. You may have chosen to be ‘allocated’ to the biologically ‘wrong’ sex. That may have occurred for many reasons.

In the UK we have a male comedian who is on record as saying that he is a lesbian trapped in a man’s body. I’m not sure if he meant it as a joke or not. But is this what you mean before your transition? Homosexual trapped in woman’s body? Lesbian trapped in a man’s? Its possible I guess, but ‘intersex’ is very, very complex - you know that!

Anyway, God Bless and I hope that I have not offended you.

I have bisexual attraction, so whether or not a transitioned or my intersex status (But yes I am) matters, I am attracted to both men and women, so regardless of my true sex, I have SSA of one sort or another.

 

[pathia]

These laws, however, will not make people who are prejudiced against others and want to inflict pain on others from continuing to do so.
There are already laws in place for the kinds of things that were done to you…both in the work force and anywhere else. These are hate crimes, and discrimination laws…

No, not where these took place. I asked many lawyers, including the ACLU, who apologized but said they could not take a losing case.

It is not illegal to discriminate against non-straights in the state of Virginia. It is perfectly legal to fire them for it and admit it in court, there is no legal violation for it.

 

[JDaniel]

How many straights had someone corner them in a bathroom and have someone try to ‘rape them gay’?

I am a very sickly person with fragile bones. Literally, if I work out too much my bones will start snapping. It is genetic, there is nothing that can be done to repair it, I am lucky to be alive, if I lived even 50-75years ago, I probably would have died at birth or in the first decade of life.

I cannot do heavy physical labor, I am never allowed to lift more than 60lbs per doctor. I have something akin to osteoporosis, despite being only 28, it first developed at about 18.

All of these incidents are in the past, I’ve moved, found a good place to live, I do not need any sympathy for my current situation, my current situation is good. I am speaking of past events to show people how horrible things can be for those with SSA.

Science has been searching for causes of cancer, all sorts of birth disorders, many many many things, and has not found 100% cause in the large majority of them. Should we just call off that research too?

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Back to the topic at hand, homosexual marriage.

I know that many people are born with handicaps. Matter of fact, I imagine that we are all born handicapped in some way, or we would all be equal at everything.

If homosexuals are “born” that way, then they have to deal with it accordingly. That does not mean that the definition of marriage should be changed.
If someone is born with no legs, should we redifine “walking” to accomodate those who are wheelchair bound?
I know that seems a silly argument, but don’t you think the people wheelchair bound want to be able to walk?

We do not get to choose what our handicap is most of the time. What we are called to do is learn how to live with it in a way that causes NO offense to God.

I married a man who later molested a child. I was forced to divorce him for lewd conduct…as I had children. For the rest of my life I am forced by my absolute faith in God’s Laws to be celibate.
Is this what I have wanted for myself? NO Way!!! This was forced upon me…just like homosexuality is forced upon homosexuals. And I have had to deal with it in the exact same manner has those with SSA have to. We are called to be celibate. And I realize that in today’s society it is difficult to master. I have to guard my eyes, ears and thoughts all day every day. But if I am careful about what I watch on television, computer and movies, what books or magazines or advertisements that I read, and what I listen to either in personal conversations or on the radio, stereo or computer…and if I go to Confession on a regular basis, spend time talking with God, and going to Mass…it is much easier to master.
Celibacy becomes something I embrace. It is actually freedom from attatchments that are unavailable to me anyway.

It is just a truth that everyone in the world does not have the blessing of God to be sexually active.

I am one of them. And I am still a very content and a person who has much peace about it.

I pray for all of those who are in a position where having sex is a mortal sin. I have fought the fight…and many times gave into temptation. But I have allowed Jesus to pick me up, dust me off and set me on the Right Path. I pray that everyone else will also allow Jesus to do so for them.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

It may not be genetic, but that doesn’t mean it is a treatable condition.

I’ve gone through 10years of therapy to ‘cure’ myself and all it did was likely push on my multiple suicide attempts. When I was in graduate school, we had a therapy group that had TWENTY college students that had all gone through the same sort of ‘cure’ sessions that I had. Every single one had multiple suicide attempts, many had physical scars from damaging themselves.

When compared to our other gay peers, our lives were complete shambles. It is true gay youth are on average have more suicidal thoughts than straight, but we were a group that tried to not be, and our rate was even higher still. It didn’t help anything, it just made it worse and worse. At least one student went back into the therapy partway through my time at school, and then he hung himself in his dorm room several months into the sessions with an ex-gay therapist.

The Catechism was quoted here, but the significance of it seems to be lost on most people.

Turning someone who experiences same-sex attraction into a straight person is something Evangelicals do, and it is in error.

Notice, the Catechism does not say that you have a disorder that must be treated and changed. It says you are called to celibacy. The homosexual has a cross to bear, no doubt. But again and again people forget the value of celibacy, and discount it as a realistic choice for those who have a homosexual orientation.

St. Paul tells us that the married are to be pitied in life, because those who are single, as he was, are at much greater peace in life.

Why do we always simply ignore this wisdom, and assume there is no happiness outside of active sexual expression?

Something to consider. The Catholic position DOES NOT, in any way, shape or form, condone hatred or exclusion of the homosexual. It only asks for celibacy, which is an exalted position, and the chosen position of its leaders.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

The Catechism was quoted here, but the significance of it seems to be lost on most people.

Turning someone who experiences same-sex attraction into a straight person is something Evangelicals do, and it is in error.

Notice, the Catechism does not say that you have a disorder that must be treated and changed. It says you are called to celibacy. The homosexual has a cross to bear, no doubt. But again and again people forget the value of celibacy, and discount it as a realistic choice for those who have a homosexual orientation.

St. Paul tells us that the married are to be pitied in life, because those who are single, as he was, are at much greater peace in life.

Why do we always simply ignore this wisdom, and assume there is no happiness outside of active sexual expression?

Something to consider. The Catholic position DOES NOT, in any way, shape or form, condone hatred or exclusion of the homosexual. It only asks for celibacy, which is an exalted position, and the chosen position of its leaders.

I can only say that, living celibate is my preferred choice now that I have accepted and experienced it. Before I married, I was always searching for love…and the supposed physical expression that would go along with it. Only, until I got married I never realized how EMPTY the act of sex was. I realized it after my marriage because I was able to compare it with something that was not empty at all…at least for me.

I must say that the peace I feel with celibacy is much greater than anything I ever felt in having sex with anyone with the exception of my ex husband. And, if I were honest, I would have to say that it had nothing to do with the act itself…only the love and life it offered to me as a woman and wife. This is something that homosexuals can never experience…as their physical actions can do nothing to bring about life. And heterosexual physical actions are missing the LOVE if they are not married, and therefore, when life is given to them, there is anxiety about what decisions about the baby and parents will be made. It is only truly love if those decisions are already secured in a total committment (marriage) before the physical action.

I will say that even were my ex husband to pass away, I would NOT become involved in another romantic relationship. I am much more at peace living in celibacy. And I say this at the time in my life when statistically, I am at the prime of my sex drive.

 

[buffalo]

I pose the question - if there was a pill for homosexuality would there be lines in the doctor’s office?

 

[pathia]

I pose the question - if there was a pill for homosexuality would there be lines in the doctor’s office?

If someone is happy with who they are, why would they wish to change? I am sure those that are in ex-gay therapy would like a pill like that, but most of us are quite comfortable in our brain as is.

Once you reach a certain point in life, erasing something that started so early on would have destructive effects on the psyche.

What if it was a brain lobotomy that did it? What if castration did it?

I certainly would never take such a pill, it would wipe out 20years of my life in a blink. I would probably commit suicide shortly after. What if you could take a pill and it erased your marriage of 20years, but put nothing in its place?

 

[Annn]

I pose the question - if there was a pill for homosexuality would there be lines in the doctor’s office?

Before I met my partner, yes, I would take it. Now, no.

 

[buffalo]

Before I met my partner, yes, I would take it. Now, no.

So you are choosing to continue your condition.

 

[Holly3278]

You know what I am getting tired of seeing in my own thread as well as other homosexuality threads here on CAF? I am getting tired of seeing homosexuals, bisexuals, transsexuals, and any other person of an “alternative sexuality” come in here with their sappy stories of how they were mistreated due to their sexuality and then use that as an excuse to somehow get sympathy for their cause of making homosexuality or whatever mainstream and accepted by all.

Now don’t get me wrong, I feel sorry for people who have been mistreated due their sexuality. It’s wrong to mistreat people due to their sexuality. However, coming into a thread with sad and sappy stories attempting to convert people to your side of view with these sad and sappy stories is just stupid and is a horrible way to debate.

So therefore, if you’re only reason for coming in to my thread is to post a sad and sappy story in order to try and convince people to your way of thinking, please reconsider your post. Thank you. And I mean this in no way to be offensive to anyone. As I said above, I do feel sorry for people who are mistreated because of their sexuality.

 

[CWBetts]

Hi everyone. A friend of mine has come up with an argument for homosexual marriage that I can’t seem to defeat. He says that homosexuals should be allowed to marry because of the fact that they were born that way and also because they deserve to have romantic relationships too. He says it would be unjust to deprive them of equal rights just because they are attracted to the same sex. How do I counter this?

The CCC tells us:

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience a predominant or exclusive sexual attraction towards persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affectiveand sexual comlimentarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

and

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacremental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Does that help?

 

[Holly3278]

The CCC tells us:

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience a predominant or exclusive sexual attraction towards persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affectiveand sexual comlimentarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

and

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacremental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Does that help?

Yes, it does help somewhat. However, I was already familiar with these quotes in the Catechism before posting my question. So I felt that it needed some deeper thought put into it. That is why I posted my question. But anyway, thanks for posting the Catechism references anyway as I am sure they will be quite helpful to someone.