Gay marriage : who cares?

[bkayw]

BOSTON, MA (FRIDAY FEB. 23)

This morning, federal judge Mark Wolf issued an outrageous and horrific 38-page ruling dismissing David Parker’s federal civil rights lawsuit against Lexington, MA school officials.

David Parker had filed the lawsuit, along with his wife and Rob and Robin Wirthlin, last April **after the schools refused to notify parents when teaching about homosexuality and transgenderism in the elementary school. **

School officials, aided by national pro-homosexual groups, had filed a motion to dismiss the case which was argued before Judge Wolf on Feb. 7.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

Why do we care about gay marriage? We do nothing active to stop divorcees from re marrying outside the church so why would we stop homosexual from marrying outside the church. Counterpoints are welcome. Just don’t spew hate about gay people. Thx

Divorce/remarriage do not seek to change the very nature of marriage into something it is not, and therefore is not as insidious a trend. Attempting to normalize gay relationships as a form of “marriage” would wreck the societal institution of marriage, further weakening the backbone of society and undermining what the Church teaches to be the default vocational state for most people. On top of that, it would necessarily lead to widespread adoption of children by gay couples as well as instances of surrogate and in vitro pregnancies. Children need a father and a mother, and the Church forbids tampering with procreation.

All in all, gay “marriage” is a far greater threat to society’s understanding of marriage than is the high divorce rate.

Peace,
Dante

 

[spankyg]

I think homosexuals have taken that word on in order to bring it’s negative connotations down; however, I do not think that non-homosexuals using that term is in good faith.

It was Homosexuals who took the word “Gay” and shift the meaning from “Happiness” and “Cheerfulness” to something which refers to themselves.

Homosexual lifestyle is a disturbing and unsettling paradigm. It’s morally wrong and defies the very laws of nature from both a Christian and naturalistic standpoint.

Permitting gay marriage will normalize depraved and immoral sexual behavior as well as contribute to society’s moral decline.

 

[kenofken]

Divorce/remarriage do not seek to change the very nature of marriage into something it is not, and therefore is not as insidious a trend. Attempting to normalize gay relationships as a form of “marriage” would wreck the societal institution of marriage, further weakening the backbone of society and undermining what the Church teaches to be the default vocational state for most people. On top of that, it would necessarily lead to widespread adoption of children by gay couples as well as instances of surrogate and in vitro pregnancies. Children need a father and a mother, and the Church forbids tampering with procreation.

All in all, gay “marriage” is a far greater threat to society’s understanding of marriage than is the high divorce rate.

Peace,
Dante

So institutionalized adultery and the reduction of marriage to a temporary casual situation among hundreds of millions of people isn’t a problem? Can I get that in writing from Rome?

 

[Veronica7978]

I was not trying to prove you wrong, just alerting you of your tone of words, it seemed disrespectful. I fully agree with you, but you must show them some sympathy and help them become better Catholics. Trust me, my generation, telling people to pretty much ‘Get over it and show some effort’ just pushes them away. They don’t want to listen to that.

I tell nobody anything. I treat my gay best friend as royalty. I expect my example to be enough. He knows his faith. He was raised Catholic. I don’t have to say a word. It’s not my business, which was my point.

 

[edwest2]

So institutionalized adultery and the reduction of marriage to a temporary casual situation among hundreds of millions of people isn’t a problem? Can I get that in writing from Rome?

“institutionalized adultery”? Who institutionalized it? After 40 years of gradually teaching everyone to engage in “alternative lifestyles” and to avoid tradition, especially Christian Tradition, like the plague, and instituting No-Fault Divorce and putting out books like, How to Have a Healthy Divorce, with a constant background noise that sounded like this, especially when directed to Christians, “Shut up! Leave us alone! We can do whatever we want!”

It was not institutionalized, it was marketed and promoted, just like classified ads in women’s magazines, that started like this: “Bi-curious?” Selling perversion was job one. Put porn in gas stations and convenience stores. Get it into grocery stores.

A few years ago I heard a young man on the radio. In a deleriously happy voice, he said, “Prositute. What an ugly word. We should just call them ‘working girls.’” Just like Stripper morphed into Exotic Dancer, without changing anything about the job description.

40 years of marketing evil can do that to a country, especially if you constantly tell religious people to shut up and mind their own business.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Veronica7978]

For those who think massresistance is not a credible web site, here are a few words from Catholic Insight:

catholicinsight.com/online/church/education/article_1027.shtml

God bless,
Ed

You still haven’t proven they’re doing it in public schools. This article say it’s wrong…agreed. My point is that public schools are too busy making test scores to push the gay agenda. If it is pushed, it’s typically some teacher gone rogue and not administration (as they would rather be shot than have to deal with angry parents over this issue). We have rogue priests, nuns, lay persons. You cannot control what every individual thinks and says. The pope has tried, it doesn’t happen when they are bent on doing wrong. Also, you see some “they” out there pushing this agenda. Who are “they?”

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

I’m watching a documentary now on TV. The school board in Alameda, California decided to make mandatory for 2nd grade kids (7-year olds) to read a picture book entitled “And Tango Makes Three”. It’s about a little penguin named Tango, who has two penguin daddies. The parents in Alameda are outraged, but to no avail. The school board will force the kids to read that book, against the protests of the parents.

 

[Seeker2010]

The New York Times tells us that many gay couples who commit to each other are not monogamous.

Many heterosexual couples who commit to each other are also not monogamous. I know this because I am one of them, and I know many hundreds of others. So what?

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

foxnews.com/story/0,2933,521209,00.html

Quote:

Gay Curriculum Proposal Riles Elementary School Parents
Friday, May 22, 2009
By Katie Landan

A group of parents in a California school district say they are being bullied by school administrators into accepting a new curriculum that addresses bullying, respect and acceptance – and that includes compulsory lessons about the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community that will be taught to children as young as 5 years old.

The parents from the Unified School District in Alameda, a suburb of San Francisco and Oakland, say these issues are best learned at home and most definitely are not age-appropriate for elementary school children.

The parents are also angry that they will not be allowed to keep their children out of the classes.

“I believe these children are far too young to be learning about what these issues mean,” said Alaina Stewart, who has three children who attend elementary school in Alameda. “These are adult issues and they are being thrust upon the children.”

But the school board says otherwise, and its attorneys say that if the curriculum is adopted, the parents will have no legal right to remove their children from class when the lessons are being taught.

“By not allowing kids to opt out,” says David Kirwin, who has two children in the system, “the school district is violating a First Amendment right for those who have a religion that doesn’t support homosexuality.”

 

[Holly3278]

Lots of people care including devout and orthodox Catholics, conservative Episcopalians, conservative Lutherans, evangelical Christians, Muslims, conservative and orthodox Jews, etc etc etc. That’s who cares! Also, God cares!

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.
(Leviticus 18:22 NAB-A)

Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.
(Romans 1:24-27 NAB-A)

Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10 NAB-A)

 

[Nexttogodliness]

"We should care about gay marriage (from a Spiritual standpoint, I oppose it. From a legal standpoint, I support it),"

Your comment is against the teaching of the Church on homosexual marriage:

Pope Benedict wrote, “In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, **clear and emphatic opposition is a duty.” **

“One must refrain from any kind of formal cooperation in the enactment or application of such gravely unjust laws and, as far as possible, from material cooperation on the level of their application. In this area, everyone can exercise the right to conscientious objection.”

Pope Benedict’s Doctrinal document Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions between Homosexual Persons, July 31, 2003

I’m gonna give you ( and everybody ) a scenario: a man and a woman are about to get married . The man regularly beats the woman but the woman does nothing to get out of the relationship, fearing she might be killed if she does. That marriage can take place while a two man, who love eachother more than anything in the world wan’t to get married but can’t b/c they are not man and woman. Does that seem fair ? ( the man and woman scenario is a true story about one of my ( former) friends

 

[Nexttogodliness]

“We do nothing active to stop divorcees from remarrying outside the church.”

All parishes require preCana classes & interviews with the priest to avoid divorce.

“Why do we care about gay marriage?”

Legalizing homosexual marriage normalizes the sexual acts of the various types groups in the homosexual lifestyle (male and female homosexuality, bisexuality, transexuality) and define the meaning of marriage.

Abstinence in the homosexual community is seen as a denial of homosexuality. People involved in homosexual lifestyles rarely pledge themselves to one partner.

lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/mar/09031007.html

All your stats are pointless. Yes they are more sucseptable to HIV/AIDS because they go anal. But let me ask you this… Why do you think gays are suicidal and achoholic? Because people like you want to take asu there rights. People like you tell them they are going to burn in he’ll for all eternity! Some people ( hopefully not like you ) even brutally beat gays for being gay. That is why they are depressed and suicidal. Bcuz they are treated like ****!

"Now queer community leaders are admitting that gay sex is downright dangerous. But rather than speak about abstinence, they say they require the government to shift public health priorities away from the average population to the queer community, even though the statistics they provide demonstrate disproportionately higher spending on the gay community currently.

Here are some of the stats that they cite in their human rights complaint:

· Life expectancy of gay/bisexual men in Canada is 20 years less than the average; that is 55 years.
· GLB people commit suicide at rates from 2 to 13.9 times more often than average.
· GLB people have smoking rates 1.3 to 3 times higher than average.
· GLB people have rates of alcoholism 1.4 to 7 times higher than average.
· GLB people have rates of illicit drug use 1.6 to 19 times higher than average.
· GLB people show rates of depression 1.8 to 3 times higher than average.
· Gay and bisexual men (MSM) comprise 76.1% of AIDS cases.
· Gay and bisexual men (MSM) comprise 54% of new HIV infections each year.
· If one uses Statistics Canada figure of 1.7% of GLB becoming infected, that is 26 times higher than average.
· GLB people are at a higher risk for anal cancers."

 

[kenofken]

Lots of people care including devout and orthodox Catholics, conservative Episcopalians, conservative Lutherans, evangelical Christians, Muslims, conservative and orthodox Jews, etc etc etc. That’s who cares! Also, God cares!

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.
(Leviticus 18:22 NAB-A)

Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.
(Romans 1:24-27 NAB-A)

Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10 NAB-A)

All well and good, but Old Testament doesn’t carry much weight with me on the subject, unless all of you start obeying the prohibitions on mixed fabrics, kosher law, death for insolent children etc.

As for the rest, why is it only spoken of by men with obvious cultural agendas and never Jesus himself. I mean, I know he had a brief and busy ministry, but you’d think he’d have found time to say something about it, if it were that important. He did speak quite clearly about divorce and remarriage amounting to adultery. And yet, we have the Prop 8 movement taking it on themselves to legislate morality and conscience and marriage for a whole nation, and they’re totally ignoring the one directive on the subject from their founder. From where I stand, it’s pretty transparent that they’re just dressing up their own hatred of gays as divine imperative. If they were not, I would expect to see a parallel campaign to outlaw divorce and remarriage. I wouldn’t support either thing, but they would have some credibility in my eyes.

 

[Nexttogodliness]

Science has proven no such thing.

narth.com/docs/hope.html

Some people are, in fact, born with certain conditions but they seek treatment. They don’t throw up their hands and think, “Oh well. There’s nothing I can do or should do about this.”

God bless,
Ed

No. Studies from sandiego university have isolated the " gay gene " and have located it to be present in chromosone 28. Also, studies have proven that in a womb, the female body thinks the male body is a foreign threat and sends antibodies to attack it, sometimes, the result is that the antibodies in the Romans body " feminize" the man, making him gay. Oh, and btw, get your facts from people who know what they are talking about. Not a christian site that bends the truth in there favor

 

[Charlemagne_II]

kenofken

As for the rest, why is it only spoken of by men with obvious cultural agendas and never Jesus himself. I mean, I know he had a brief and busy ministry, but you’d think he’d have found time to say something about it, if it were that important.

I’m wondering why you present yourself as an authority on scripture when you can be so wrong about what you just said. This is one of the most famous passages in scripture. Have you never heard it? Obviously Jesus is speaking of Sodom as the city punished for its sexual perversions. I know you’ve heard of sodomy.

Matthew 11:20-24
*Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. "Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you." *(NIV)

 

[Veronica7978]

Wait a minute. Are you saying that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality? Is that only in the OT. If somebody has something on this.

 

[kenofken]

kenofken

As for the rest, why is it only spoken of by men with obvious cultural agendas and never Jesus himself. I mean, I know he had a brief and busy ministry, but you’d think he’d have found time to say something about it, if it were that important.

I’m wondering why you present yourself as an authority on scripture when you can be so wrong about what you just said. This is one of the most famous passages in scripture. Have you never heard it? Obviously Jesus is speaking of Sodom as the city punished for its sexual perversions. I know you’ve heard of sodomy.

Matthew 11:20-24

    *Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. "Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you." *(NIV)

That’s about as clear a reference to homosexuality as a guy clearing his throat on the subway. It sounds a whole lot to me like he’s lambasting people and places for a lack of faith despite ample evidence (miracles), and that their suffering would bring about a worse fate than Sodom. WHY Sodom was destroyed is not material to what he is saying here. He’s just saying that “God brought terrible wrath down on this city, but it will be worse for those who spur him now and in the future.”

There is considerable debate among scholars as to what Sodom’s great sin was. More than a few believe it was not homosexuality per se but rape and the violation of hospitality. So it might be that Jesus was just taking a very roundabout way to condemn homosexuality, but that’s only self evident to those who wish it to be.

 

[edwest2]

You still haven’t proven they’re doing it in public schools. This article say it’s wrong…agreed. My point is that public schools are too busy making test scores to push the gay agenda. If it is pushed, it’s typically some teacher gone rogue and not administration (as they would rather be shot than have to deal with angry parents over this issue). We have rogue priests, nuns, lay persons. You cannot control what every individual thinks and says. The pope has tried, it doesn’t happen when they are bent on doing wrong. Also, you see some “they” out there pushing this agenda. Who are “they?”

Here is some additional information:

catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0049.html

God bless,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Many heterosexual couples who commit to each other are also not monogamous. I know this because I am one of them, and I know many hundreds of others. So what?

Indifference has been identified by Pope Benedict as a real problem. People, in general, can say “so what” to most anything. The point here, on a Catholic Forum, is that all forms of sexual activity outside of one man and one woman marriage are wrong.

God bless,
Ed