"gay" marriage

[Tlaloc]

Kevin Walker:

Chinese and blacks are a race, women are a gender, homosexuals are neither a race nor a gender - more illogic (a category mistake) from Tlaloc.

Except for the genetic component. Are you ever going to choose to acknowledge the facts or is this the galileo thing all over again?

 

[Tlaloc]

goofyjim:

Seems like those are not being enforced much. Again what is the problem if the behavior is kept behind closed doors of private residences? Of course I emphatically would not have it in my home but I see no reason to keep someone from doing it a theirs. My approach is to let them know the medical risks to prevent them from the result. I will not control their every action. This is my compromise that I offer them. I have yet to hear whether they concede.

And your approach is reasonable. By all means feel free to express you disagreement with homosexuality. Just don’t try to make your personal feelings into law.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

Tlaloc:

Except for the genetic component. Are you ever going to choose to acknowledge the facts or is this the galileo thing all over again?

-yawn-

As for the genetic component:

"However, to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality" APA

I believe, in Ignoratio elenchi, you supplied this information - thanks tlaloc (pagan gods were not noted for their intelligence).

 

[Beaver]

Tlaloc:

Then leave it to God to do something about it. God most definitely doesn’t need your help, He can take on the queers and communists all at once!

You think that He is not, oh how foolish, you will not like the results.

Tlaloc:

Everyone has to accept the consequences of their actions. Thats life. To you the consequences are harsh. To others they are acceptable. If this country would be destroyed by tolerance then it does not deserve to exist. It won’t be though anymore than the civil rights movement destroyed it or the suffragette movement. Each made America not more weak but more just.

You have not a clue of what you speak and yes, you will recieve the consequense. You are right the country does not deserve to exist, are you willing to go down with it. It will be far greater than any movement. America will be no more.

 

[Tlaloc]

-yawn-

As for the genetic component:

"However, to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality" APA

I believe, in Ignoratio elenchi, you supplied this information - thanks tlaloc (pagan gods were not noted for their intelligence).

Oh my god. Getting this wrong in one thread wasn’t enough? You actually had to parade your inability to read and comprehend to others?

 

[Kevin_Walker]

Tlaloc:

Oh my god. Getting this wrong in one thread wasn’t enough? You actually had to parade your inability to read and comprehend to others?

-double yawn-
No, just demonstrating how your relativism doesn’t prove the deterministic (genetic) cause of homosexuality.

Maybe you were correct in choosing the evil deity tlaloc, instead of using your real name?

 

[A_Chaoidh]

One thing I see missing in this discussion is recognition of the fact that the fundamental documents and laws of the United States are based on Judeo-Christian belief and law, which is the Foundation of our Republic (it is not a Democracy in the strictest sense). Also the so-called “Separation of Church and State” is a misnomer soundbyte.

The “gay marriage” movement is one more attempt to remove God from our country.

“In God We (still) Trust”! I guess there’s always Canada or France for those who don’t like it

 

[Lisa_N]

goofyjim:

Lisa

I stand corrected. Maybe I am misquoting or misunderstanding his comments. After all he would never approve of gay marriage any way.

But should we criminalize the behavior in a persons own bedroom? If so shouldn’t we criminalize adultery, fornication, and all the other stuff? This is my main concern on the topic of inequality. St. Paul certainly did not make one any worse or better than the others.

Jim, (I just can’t call anyone goofy sorry). I have made it CLEAR that what homosexuals (or heterosexuals) do in the privacy of their homes is none of my concern. I think criminalizing sexual behavior of consenting adults is a total waste of time and energy. Now any kind of CHILD abuse should be prosecuted to the end of the earth but if an adult wants to have sex with a shoe, I frankly don’t care.

What I object to is the homosexual agenda that insists on bringing their bedroom activities into the public square. I don’t WANT to know about sodomy thank you very much. I do not want children taught that sodomy is just “another choice” like having Pepsi instead of Coke. I don’t think secular institutions like public schools should have “gay day” anymore than they should have “oral sex day” or “necropheliac day.” Children should learn basic biology. These are the body parts and this is what they are DESIGNED to do. Value judgements, practices, birth control, etc are not up to public schools to determine.

So I am perfectly happy to live and let live if they stay out of the public with their practices.

Lisa N

 

[Arwen037]

Okay, I have to make a point here. One of you said that we shouldn’t deprive kids of a mommy or daddy. But if a female couple wants to adopt, and we tell them no, aren’t we depriving a kid of both a mother and a father? Isn’t having two mothers who will love the child better than leaving the child in an orphanage until they are 18 or so?

 

[Kevin_Walker]

Arwen037:

Okay, I have to make a point here. One of you said that we shouldn’t deprive kids of a mommy or daddy. But if a female couple wants to adopt, and we tell them no, aren’t we depriving a kid of both a mother and a father? Isn’t having two mothers who will love the child better than leaving the child in an orphanage until they are 18 or so?

Actually the concensus amongst child experts (Piaget, Masters & Johnson, Dr. Spock,) is that removing the child from a healthy stable environment into a dysfunctional environment (homosexual couple) would be traumatizing for the youth.

Boys Town, Ohio, keeps unadopted orphans institutionalized until they are 18 (then its out the door). By the time your 18, your personality should be solidified enough under a healthy stable environment so that you can contend with any trauma life throws at you without being deeply affected. The developmental years are generally birth - 6/7/8 years old. These are the years which have the greatest impact on the childs future emotional and intellectual development, and these are the years which the child must be safeguarded from any type of trauma whatsoever, since homosexuality is not genetically determined, but psychologically caused.

 

[goofyjim]

Lisa N:

Jim, (I just can’t call anyone goofy sorry). I have made it CLEAR that what homosexuals (or heterosexuals) do in the privacy of their homes is none of my concern. I think criminalizing sexual behavior of consenting adults is a total waste of time and energy. Now any kind of CHILD abuse should be prosecuted to the end of the earth but if an adult wants to have sex with a shoe, I frankly don’t care.

What I object to is the homosexual agenda that insists on bringing their bedroom activities into the public square. I don’t WANT to know about sodomy thank you very much. I do not want children taught that sodomy is just “another choice” like having Pepsi instead of Coke. I don’t think secular institutions like public schools should have “gay day” anymore than they should have “oral sex day” or “necropheliac day.” Children should learn basic biology. These are the body parts and this is what they are DESIGNED to do. Value judgements, practices, birth control, etc are not up to public schools to determine.

So I am perfectly happy to live and let live if they stay out of the public with their practices.

Lisa N

We have, though, already dug ourselves a hole. The mystery lies in the fact that if we don’t discuss the issue we never find out who to minister to therefore no exgay ministries. That doesn’t solve the problem either. Believe me I don’t claim to have the final solution.

BTW These forums remind me of the Argument Clinic on Monty Python. Just thought I 'd throw that in. I am as guilty as the next.

 

[goofyjim]

Tlaloc:

And your approach is reasonable. By all means feel free to express you disagreement with homosexuality. Just don’t try to make your personal feelings into law.

Ditto.

 

[Arwen037]

Kevin, so you’re saying it’s better to have a child living in a large group of other children with very few adults around, thereby leaving little personal time with the adults than to have two parents who love the child, and can spend a lot of time with him/her? I’d think that an orphanage would be much more damaging to a child than homosexual parent. I know which one I would prefer.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

Arwen037:

Kevin, so you’re saying it’s better to have a child living in a large group of other children with very few adults around, thereby leaving little personal time with the adults than to have two parents who love the child, and can spend a lot of time with him/her? I’d think that an orphanage would be much more damaging to a child than homosexual parent. I know which one I would prefer.

No. I’m saying that removing a child, sometimes more than once, from a healthy stable environment the child has grown accustomed (i.e. a good orphanage) and placing that child into a strange and dysfunctional environment (i.e. a homosexual couple ‘mock’ marriage) will be detrimental to the child’s healthy psychological development.

And, unfortunately, most children do not choose their parents, or have a preference as to their upbringing. They cope as best they can.

 

[goofyjim]

This is becoming like the “predestination v. freewill” debate several centuries. For the overall topic of homosexuality in and of itself there are no easy answers. Sodomy is wrongand we would be better not to discuss it. Yet we can’t return to denial of its existence either because too many might harm themselves. I suggest to those who suffer find a respectable priest and confide in him. To those who have already went beyond that begin silence on the issue and learn from current events. To those who are not affected learn to correct inaccurate assumptions. I go on to long. The answers are in the pure love club. Everyone check it out.

How’s that for advertising, Jason?

 

[Lisa_N]

Arwen037:

Kevin, so you’re saying it’s better to have a child living in a large group of other children with very few adults around, thereby leaving little personal time with the adults than to have two parents who love the child, and can spend a lot of time with him/her? I’d think that an orphanage would be much more damaging to a child than homosexual parent. I know which one I would prefer.

You assume that the ONLY alternatives for a child are either some sort of living herd of kids or two homosexuals. That is absolutely not true. For one there are very very very few “orphanages” around these days. Not that it wouldn’t be a good thing to have group homes for some children. I am involved in an organization that works with abused and neglected children. Sometimes adoption is the eventual outcome although the state tries to keep families together and studies show that if the bio family can be made reasonably compliant the child is better of with his/her bio parents.

That being said, once the child is available for adoption, the LAST thing you want to do is put an abused, neglected, probably mentally fragile child into an avante garde family situation. These children deserve the strongest most stable families available and they ARE available. The homosexual activists want you to believe all they want to do is care for the “unwanted” children but that is not the case. Further the real ‘problem’ children are probably not candidates for adoption and some are in permanent foster care with well trained and finacially supported foster parents. Often the ‘unadoptable’ child is older and does not want to be adopted. He or she can choose permanent guardianship, group home or permanent foster care until he/she reaches majority.

The myth that there are all these poor little children that no one wants is just that, a myth.

Lisa N

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Kevin Walker:

No. I’m saying that removing a child, sometimes more than once, from a healthy stable environment the child has grown accustomed (i.e. a good orphanage) and placing that child into a strange and dysfunctional environment (i.e. a homosexual couple ‘mock’ marriage) will be detrimental to the child’s healthy psychological development.

And, unfortunately, most children do not choose their parents, or have a preference as to their upbringing. They cope as best they can.

A freind I went ot high school with had “two dads”.He was embarrassed one of them would flaunt it leaving gay porn about the house walking around naked if a freind came to the house and even seduced a high school freind of his.There were three kids, one girl and two boys.One of the boy is a crack addict,the other boy has to see a psyciatrist and the girl is a sado masocist that made a ton of money selling disgusting things on the web, including torture devices,scalples and body bags.She is currently married to her “master”.The biological dad described above died of aids two years ago:nope: Nothing good about this:tsktsk: An orphanage is indeed preferable.God Bless

 

[Lisa_N]

Lisa4Catholics:

A freind I went ot high school with had “two dads”.He was embarrassed one of them would flaunt it leaving gay porn about the house walking around naked if a freind came to the house and even seduced a high school freind of his.There were three kids, one girl and two boys.One of the boy is a crack addict,the other boy has to see a psyciatrist and the girl is a sado masocist that made a ton of money selling disgusting things on the web, including torture devices,scalples and body bags.She is currently married to her “master”.The biological dad described above died of aids two years ago:nope: Nothing good about this:tsktsk: An orphanage is indeed preferable.God Bless

Indeed. We have a horrible situation in Oregon where a homosexual pair of men were found to be systematically abusing not only their own foster son (abuse started at age 12 and he is now 16) but they used their son to get to other schoolboys and have apparently abused a number of the young man’s classmates. One of the “dads” was a school volunteer…hmmm does this sound familiar? Turns out he had some kind of internet kiddie porn thing going and was caught when a computer technician saw the kiddie porn on his computer. Our lovely couple is also one of the first “married” couples in Oregon oh and one of the “dads” also taught Sunday school. Do you want to just gag? I do. Do you think a group home might have been better than “two daddies” for this poor boy? He will have a very hard time getting over this. Can you imagine a high school kid facing his friends who know that his “dad” was into kiddie porn? That is so humiliating.

I cannot believe that the “so open minded our brains fell out” attitude toward homosexuals in this area allowed this to happen. I think people are going overboard to pretend that homosexuals are just like everyone else and ignoring warning signs…like this man ONLY wanted to volunteer with male sports teams…Is it time to get a clue?

Lisa N

PS and NO I do NOT think all homosexuals are pedophiles but we have to realize it IS a possibility and act accordingly

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Lisa N:

Indeed. We have a horrible situation in Oregon where a homosexual pair of men were found to be systematically abusing not only their own foster son (abuse started at age 12 and he is now 16) but they used their son to get to other schoolboys and have apparently abused a number of the young man’s classmates. One of the “dads” was a school volunteer…hmmm does this sound familiar? Turns out he had some kind of internet kiddie porn thing going and was caught when a computer technician saw the kiddie porn on his computer. Our lovely couple is also one of the first “married” couples in Oregon oh and one of the “dads” also taught Sunday school. Do you want to just gag? I do. I cannot believe that the “so open minded our brains fell out” attitude toward homosexuals in this area allowed this to happen. I think people are going overboard to pretend that homosexuals are just like everyone else and ignoring warning signs…like this man ONLY wanted to volunteer with male sports teams…Is it time to get a clue?

Lisa N

Absolutely, iwent to a performing arts school and us straight folks were the minority.What struck me as strange is the lesbians or homosexual males all had either been sexual abused as children and or had a lack of or an abusive parent figure.This is not genetic it is perpetuating.God bless
I do not believe all of them are either,my best freind has been chaste for years he was suicidal whe he was active,because he knew it was wrong AND he had met so many of them that were pedifiles,that is what convinced him just how wrong it is.Coincidently, my freind was raped by a fourteen year old repeatedly at the age of 8 and his dad was an abusive alcohlic.Genetics,huh

 

[goofyjim]

Lisa4Catholics:

Absolutely, iwent to a performing arts school and us straight folks were the minority.What struck me as strange is the lesbians or homosexual males all had either been sexual abused as children and or had a lack of or an abusive parent figure.This is not genetic it is perpetuating.God bless
I do not believe all of them are either,my best freind has been chaste for years he was suicidal whe he was active,because he knew it was wrong AND he had met so many of them that were pedifiles,that is what convinced him just how wrong it is.Coincidently, my freind was raped by a fourteen year old repeatedly at the age of 8 and his dad was an abusive alcohlic.Genetics,huh

There are those who came from normal families. If you take time you might meet some. Doesn’t mean genetics but doesn’t find any conclusive cause either. Proper upbringin should prevent behavior and has but it does not prevent the disposition.