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Lisa4Catholics
Guest
Look I was a minority hetero in a performing arts highschool and had lots of freinds who were homosexual,everyone had one or both factors that I described above,it is not genetic.God Bless
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Kevin_Walker
Guest
There are always the extreme cases that don’t apply to the majority of causal connections.Absolutely, iwent to a performing arts school and us straight folks were the minority.What struck me as strange is the lesbians or homosexual males all had either been sexual abused as children and or had a lack of or an abusive parent figure.This is not genetic it is perpetuating.God bless
I do not believe all of them are either,my best freind has been chaste for years he was suicidal whe he was active,because he knew it was wrong AND he had met so many of them that were pedifiles,that is what convinced him just how wrong it is.Coincidently, my freind was raped by a fourteen year old repeatedly at the age of 8 and his dad was an abusive alcohlic.Genetics,huh
For example, I was speaking with a recently released convict who went to prison when he was 17 and said he was repeatedly and violently ganged raped in all sorts of ways over a 20 year period. Something inside him snapped both mentally & spiritually and he just gave up all hope and became their ‘punk’ - a sex toy.
This man was punished in far excess of his crime and has a permanent couch in a psychiatrists office. I’m just amazed he hasn’t commited suicide yet.
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goofyjim
Guest
For that group the factors may be there but you have not talked to all of them. I did not say it was genetics. I did say there still has not been found a common cause. It is statistically impossible.:banghead:
Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner.
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goofyjim
Guest
Kevin Walker:
I shall pray that he doesn’t. Noone should.
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Lisa4Catholics
Guest
I will try to find some stats if you get rid of the bang head
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goofyjim
Guest
No more bang head.I will try to find some stats if you get rid of the bang head
But you won’t find the stats because not all homosexuals participate in the studies, including me for one. So take me as one that refutes all the theories. These forums are too limited to explain why. Just trust me. :tiphat:
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Lisa4Catholics
Guest
Interesting,PM me because you are the only one I have talked to or met that didn’t have one of the two factors.God BlessNo more bang head.
But you won’t find the stats because not all homosexuals participate in the studies, including me for one. So take me as one that refutes all the theories. These forums are too limited to explain why. Just trust me. :tiphat:
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goofyjim
Guest
I’m still new at the language. PM?
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Lisa4Catholics
Guest
Private messageI’m still new at the language. PM?
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Lisa_N
Guest
I do believe there might well be some kind of genetic predisposition or early environmental experience (in the womb for example) that contributes to homosexuality. I have long seen this condition to be like alcoholism. You may be born with a predisposition to alcoholism but if you are aware of this issue, or are never in the position to drink, you can avoid it. IOW I don’t think “born homosexual/always homosexual” anymore than I think someone is born an alcoholic and nothing can be done to prevent it. I do think that there are contributing factors to homosexuality along the way with respect to what Lisa4Catholics and others have mentioned.
My own experience knowing several homosexuals VERY well, is that most of them did have some kind of unstable home environment. Three of the four were adopted. One was abandoned by his mother at a friend’s home and she never came back to get him. He has no clue who ‘bio dad’ is and was raised by women. The other adoptee has an adopted sister (no relation) who is a lesbian. I have to think that SOMETHING about that family was influential in both unrelated, adopted at birth kids would be homosexual. The third was raised in a normal two parent, married family but a much beloved uncle was homosexual and very influential in this man’s life. IOW there seem to be triggers along the way and if we are aware of the signs early enough, can steer the child to a more normal life. That is why I absolutely detest “gay day” or “gay pride” because I think all it does is encourage confused kids that gay is cool or trendy or gets them some attention and thus they step over the line.
Totally off thread but I just read an extensive review of the books by EM Forster. He wrote Howard’s End among others. Very famous writer. He was a relatively closeted homosexual because in those days it was a bit less trendy to be ‘out.’ I went back and read his bio. Father died when he was a toddler. Raised by mom and two aunts…Makes you wonder doesn’t it?
At any rate while not on point with the thread, it does point to the fallacy of homosexuals marrying someone of the same sex. You cannot turn an abnormal lifestyle into a normal one with trappings, licenses, white dresses or champagne.
LIsa N
My own experience knowing several homosexuals VERY well, is that most of them did have some kind of unstable home environment. Three of the four were adopted. One was abandoned by his mother at a friend’s home and she never came back to get him. He has no clue who ‘bio dad’ is and was raised by women. The other adoptee has an adopted sister (no relation) who is a lesbian. I have to think that SOMETHING about that family was influential in both unrelated, adopted at birth kids would be homosexual. The third was raised in a normal two parent, married family but a much beloved uncle was homosexual and very influential in this man’s life. IOW there seem to be triggers along the way and if we are aware of the signs early enough, can steer the child to a more normal life. That is why I absolutely detest “gay day” or “gay pride” because I think all it does is encourage confused kids that gay is cool or trendy or gets them some attention and thus they step over the line.
Totally off thread but I just read an extensive review of the books by EM Forster. He wrote Howard’s End among others. Very famous writer. He was a relatively closeted homosexual because in those days it was a bit less trendy to be ‘out.’ I went back and read his bio. Father died when he was a toddler. Raised by mom and two aunts…Makes you wonder doesn’t it?
At any rate while not on point with the thread, it does point to the fallacy of homosexuals marrying someone of the same sex. You cannot turn an abnormal lifestyle into a normal one with trappings, licenses, white dresses or champagne.
LIsa N
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goofyjim
Guest
I think the Church is giving more assistance to those who struggle than some want to admit. Finally they are calling the single life a vocation. I do not recall this being done in the past. Gives me encouragement. Bless you, Holy Father and all others.
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lovesdada
Guest
I just read all of the “Homosexuality” thread and found it was closed, so I’ll reply here though I’ve haven’t read all the other posts. Pardon me if I repeat.
I’d just like to post a few facts for you.
U.S. Gay Population
1948-- 37% of males experienced homosexual orgasm (4% exclusively homosexual), 13% of females (1-3% exclusively homosexual)
Kinsey, et al.
1974
Males, 25% had experienced orgams through homosexual contact
M. Hunt
1993
Of twenty- to thirty- yeard-old non-institutionalized males, 2% of sexually active men had homosexual activity within the past ten years. 1% had been exclusively homosexual over that period.
J. Billy, K. Fanfer, W. Grady, D. Klepingerm
1995
Males
20.8% reported homosexual behavior or attraction since age fifteen
Females
17.8% reported homosexual behavior or attraction since age fifteen
R.L. Sell, J.A. Wells, D. Wypji (includes France and U.K data)
1998
Point. It’s hard to define homosexuality. I notice most of you don’t reference lesbianism. Why is that? I also know it’s difficult to label yourself homosexual in an unaccepting society.
It’s also difficult to form lasting monogamous relationships in the face of such hatred (whether of sin or sinner) and prejudice.
Which might be why most posts reference “sex.”
As of December 1996 (I know, kinda old) 49.5% of AIDS cases were transmitted by male homosexual or bisexual contact.
25.2% by male or female IV drug use.
6.4% by male homo/bi sexual contact plus IV drug use
8.6% hetersexual contact
1.5% receipt of blood/tissue
9.1% other or undetermined
But this is all AIDS cases up through 1996.,
The Church has never supported an ultraliteral translation of the Bible, translators have agendas of their own, and we must all question our preconcieved notions/beleifs/religious teachings/etc before we become complete persons, and definitely before we start preaching hate this and hellfire that.
Hope some of that helped somebody.
I’d just like to post a few facts for you.
U.S. Gay Population
1948-- 37% of males experienced homosexual orgasm (4% exclusively homosexual), 13% of females (1-3% exclusively homosexual)
Kinsey, et al.
1974
Males, 25% had experienced orgams through homosexual contact
M. Hunt
1993
Of twenty- to thirty- yeard-old non-institutionalized males, 2% of sexually active men had homosexual activity within the past ten years. 1% had been exclusively homosexual over that period.
J. Billy, K. Fanfer, W. Grady, D. Klepingerm
1995
Males
20.8% reported homosexual behavior or attraction since age fifteen
Females
17.8% reported homosexual behavior or attraction since age fifteen
R.L. Sell, J.A. Wells, D. Wypji (includes France and U.K data)
1998
3.3% of sexually active men and 2.3% of sexually active women had had sex with someone of the same gender within the previous twelve months.
Point. It’s hard to define homosexuality. I notice most of you don’t reference lesbianism. Why is that? I also know it’s difficult to label yourself homosexual in an unaccepting society.It’s also difficult to form lasting monogamous relationships in the face of such hatred (whether of sin or sinner) and prejudice.
Which might be why most posts reference “sex.”
But sexuality is much more than sex.
It has three components. 1) Love 2) Sexual attraction 3) Identity
In other words, to answer the question “Are you homosexual?”
you must answer 1) Would it be possible for me to love another member of my biological sex? 2) Do I feel sexually attracted to members of my biological sex? and 3) Do I identify myself as homosexual?
The emphasis on the sex of homoSexual and the love of heterosexual is supreme, but covert, bigotry.
You may feel that homosexual sexual activity is sinful, but it’s offensive (and not very Christian) to constantly proclaim that homosexuality (which includes entirely celibate and happily engaged in heterosexual marriages lifestyles) is a vile sin, worthy of the world (and God’s) hatred.
As of December 1996 (I know, kinda old) 49.5% of AIDS cases were transmitted by male homosexual or bisexual contact.25.2% by male or female IV drug use.
6.4% by male homo/bi sexual contact plus IV drug use
8.6% hetersexual contact
1.5% receipt of blood/tissue
9.1% other or undetermined
But this is all AIDS cases up through 1996.,
In the world as a whole, HIV is primarily acquired through HETEROsexual sex.
In the US, 52% of recent HIV transmissions are still between gay and bisexual men
All this info from the Census Bureau, 1999
Of course, census info also tells us that the divorce is not higher than it was in the 50s, and other unpleasant facts that shatter our “this world that allows two people of the same biological sex to love each is so much more sinful and decadent and divorce-y than the saintly days of yore when everyone was married and only had missionary-positioned sex every two years when a child was wanted” fantasy.
If you believe that homosexuality has no genetic link because Adam and Eve were not homosexual (and who says they weren’t?) how do explain the presence of “races” in the world (there is more genetic diversity among members of one “race” then between two “races”). The Biblical account of the creation of “blackness” links those dark-skinned people of the world to sexual deviance (either Noah’s son refusing to wait for sex before the Ark landed or Noah’s son gazing on Noah’s nakedness). Yet we, as a society, have successfully combated the stereotype of the sex-monster black man.The Church has never supported an ultraliteral translation of the Bible, translators have agendas of their own, and we must all question our preconcieved notions/beleifs/religious teachings/etc before we become complete persons, and definitely before we start preaching hate this and hellfire that.
Hope some of that helped somebody.
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Lisa_N
Guest
Baloney. Homosexuals tend to have transient relationships (averaging two years) even in countries where homosexuality is accepted such as in Scandinavian countries. Further unless you think that homosexuals are immediately detectible on sight, how is all of this hatred and prejudice being transmitted–brain waves?
Further I find it interesting that you, as is the usual tactic, claim that anyone who says this is abnormal behavior is therefore hateful and bigoted. OTOH other abnormal behaviors such as alcoholism are charcacterized as some kind of illness where treatment is appropriate.
Again you toss around ‘hatred’ like homosexuals are being strung up by their thumbs. Look around and tell me where this is happening please. Most people have a live and let live attitude. What someone wants to do in their bedroom, if legal is up to them. What most people are objecting to is having someone’s sex life made public. I don’t want to KNOW about your sex life or anyone else’s for that matter. Keep your private activity private and we’ll all get along.
Your data are not only old by please do the math. Even the most recent CDC reports indicate that male homosexuals who may comprise 2% of the population are STILL responsible for almost HALF of the cases in the US. Hello? Two percent creating almost 50% of the cases? Does this figure ring a bell? That heterosexual sex is the main problem in other countries is not particularly relevant to what is happening here. This is a public health problem and should be dealt with in that fashion.
And your point would be?
No it doesn’t. Your data and preconceived notions are totally outdated and rather irrelevant. Maybe you can go back to Google and find something a bit more germane. People toss out words like hatred and bigotry to shut down the discussion. No, people do not say homosexuality isn’t genetic due to Adam and Eve, but because there is no SCIENTIFIC evidence that it is. Genetics is quite advanced now in case you didn’t notice. Many genetic conditions have been mapped and the human genome has been decoded. But so far there is more evidence that homosexuality is a result of some kind of environmental factor and no ‘gay gene’ has been located.
Lisa N
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Brad
Guest
As far as the “good parties” go, I get invited to where I want to go - that’s good enough for me.
You obviously don’t know the faith. It is apparent you have little interest in learning it. If that changes, let me know. Until then, don’t pretend to know it.
Tolerance is no virtue. Christ went to the cross before he tolerated sin.
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Brad
Guest
You say mugging is bad. I say the re-definition of marriage is bad. How do you know who is right? Do we have to await to see if Tlaloc declares it obvious what is right and what is wrong or is their a standard somewhere? I flatly disagree that the re-definition of marriage is not harmful to society, and, because society is made of people, harmful to people.
And noone is legitimately persecuting anyone. You have a strange defintion of persecution.
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Brad
Guest
Ask the person with AIDS if they wish abstinence had been taught.
Ask the person who was robbed if “thou shall not steal” shouldn’t be a law.
Where is the source of good? Is it what Tlaloc thinks is good? What is your list of good things?
You’re wrong. Read a real history book rather than the liberal blather that spews through academia. Good biographies of Washington, Adams and others would be a good start.
Why is it that the judicial oaths require an understanding that divine law is to be upheld?
Why did the congress print bibles for the use of schools? Was it a mental breakdown?
Christianity is not your typical relgion. It allows tolerance (your beloved) of other faiths. It allows practice of other faiths. It is from the teachings of Christianity that democracy came. You are clearly confused. Because the teachings of other faiths demand the killing of infidels doesn’t mean Christianity teaches that. It teaches to love your neighbor and oppose sin.
My position is rock solid and based on truth rather than some fictitous utopia of secularlism that you dream the country was built on.
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goofyjim
Guest
To my solid Catholic friends on this thread, stand your ground. I’m praying for your victory but Know that anything else I say could and would be used against me.
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Kevin_Walker
Guest
Hi goofyjim,To my solid Catholic friends on this thread, stand your ground. I’m praying for your victory but Know that anything else I say could and would be used against me.
So to hone your skills in logic and debate, then consider every word you say wisely. Consider these threads as a learning experience to analyze the argument content of others.
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