Gay 'marriages'?

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If any heterosexual couple blames their divorce on gay marriage, I think they have major problems.

“She handed to me.”
“The snake told me to eat the apple.”
 
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Ken:
OK. But I do think that each attack should be identified with the damage it does. Otherwise it isn’t an attack. Let’s take a few things which are credited with harming marriage and see how they do so. I will use divorce as an observable symptom of harm
  • Birth control allows fewer children and that makes it easier for a woman to divorce and retain custody while mainaining her own household.
  • No fault divorce makes the entire divorce procedure cheaper and more available. It removed any impediment.
  • Abortion reduces the number of children a couple may have, and has the same effect on divorce as birth control. It also removes a reason that prompted many marriages.
  • Catholic annulment clears the way for Catholics to divorce and remarry. That allows more Catholics who would not divorce without Church approval to take that option.
So, what is a similar statement of the effect of gay civil marriage on divorce.
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A few things here the first is you must not understand Annulment it does not clear the way for Catholics to divorce. It says the marriage never was in God’s eyes. The Church does not pursume to have the ablity to undo what God has done.

Second Birth Control and Abortion the reasons you site are vaild but are not the core issue to why they lead to marriages failing. Marriage is quite simply between a man and a woman for the purpose of procreation of children. When we close our selfs off the the truth of marriage and turn instead to our own desires instead of what God intended the marriage fails. When enough people close them selves off to what God intended then there is no support for the marriage in socity.

Ken if we dont respect the institution of marriage and help improve it for one another it is easy to give up on. And if we allow for Gay Marriages we have again undermined the institution created by God. I do not know why you avoid this issue and can not see that any time you weaken the definition of something you weaken that thing.

Also the reasons you cite here in your post are not direct they go to undermining what marriage was intended to do. That is the same as what allowing gay marriages will do. It will loudly and clearly that marriage is not worth fighting for because it is not:
  1. Created by God
  2. Between a man and a woman
  3. For service of one to another
  4. for self giving not taking
  5. Not for the procreation of children (IE more hetrosexuals will marry and not have the intent of having children why should they marriage is no longer for that your point about birth control and aborition)
  6. Take away socitys support for married couples in trouble after all marriage is just to fufill your wants and needs, and if they are not being met leave.
  7. soon we will have the free no fault divorce because after all the only reason Tom married Bill was for the tax break and they no longer want that.
Ken say what you will you know it will affect the institution you are a smart man. There must be some underlying issue here.

God Bless and have a great day.
 
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Shibboleth:
If any heterosexual couple blames their divorce on gay marriage, I think they have major problems.

“She handed to me.”
“The snake told me to eat the apple.”
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It is not the blame. Look at it this way 15 years ago I would never at my house have recived soft core porn the way I did yesterday. The Victorias Secret catalog came to my house. I am raising three boys one who is 14 at that age I do not need him having things like that defining what sexuality is. The same with marriage each time we take away from its meaning to our Children we hand on a socity that has no respect for what it was truly meant to be. There are a lot of Great Christian people that are divorced is it because they were bad people no I believe that for some socity has helped satan lie to them about what marriage should be. How many good Christian marriages failed because they were not self giving and open to children, why Birth control around every corner.

It is hard enough for me to keep my eyes on God due to what we as a socity have done to get our eyes of him. How hard are we making it for our Children to keep their eyes on God when we hand them a culture that says marriage is about self? Aborition is ok if the Child is in your way? Sex is about your pleasure?

Why do we want to give this as a gift to our children? I Pray we can stand for what God created and give to a Children an instuition that again means something other than my needs must be met.

“She handed to me.”
“The snake told me to eat the apple The occasion for sin is sometimes all that is needed for sin to occur. Adam did not do his job he should have called upon the Lord and asked for his help to remove the snake from the garden. Yes he sined by eating the apple but look again at the whole story (not just one line) his real problem was he did not stand against satan when he first appeared in the garden. Instead he allowed himself to listen and then to embrace the lie.
 
So, what is a similar statement of the effect of gay civil marriage on divorce.
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It cheapens the whole idea of marriage, by reducing its purpose to the satisfaction of romantic or sexual drives, no matter the consequence. This may lead more people to get married for the wrong reasons, and these marriages having failed, might result in a higher divorce rate.

Or maybe not. Should we take the risk?
 
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BobCatholic:
Let’s take a look at the slippery slope argument.

When “marriage” can be redefined little by little away from its original institution, how far should we go before it is “too much?”

polygamy? Incest? polyandry? pedophilia?

The problem is, that before a river is polluted to the point that people are dying, people START the pollution asking “what is the harm?”

Then when the pollution gets out of hand, then it is too late, we’re long on the slippery slope.

So, how much poison would you like in your water supply?

So how much devaluing of the marriage instutition would you like?

Remember, this “gay union” c.r.a.p. is just a continuation of the devaluation of marriage as an institution.

1930, contraception OK by protestant decree

1954, contraception OK by government fiat.

1960’s: Birth control pill OK’d for use

1973, abortion OK by government fiat

1970’s easy divorce laws OK by government fiat.

1970’s-1980 - divorce rate skyrockets, that’s OK

1990’s: homosexuals step forward, demand their right to be just as scummy as heterosexuals have become in the secular society.

2000’s: gay unions legalized.

2010’s: polygamous unions legalized - Mormon fundamentalists rejoice

2020’s: pedophile unions legalized - NAMBLA rejoices

2030’s: object unions legalized: you can now marry things

…

You can’t build the building of harm without laying certain bricks and foundations.
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Bob, yesterday I was listening to St. Joseph Radio and Steve Wood that a program about this very topic. Steve Wood stated the first indication of the society of marriage being challenged was with one man and his interpetation of Scripture…“Martin Luther”. I didn’t say that Steve Wood did!
Steve’s reasoning was because the Reformation began to interpete the Bible differently than of the Catholic Church and thus that led to the lessening of the sexual taboos.
Go to St. Joseph Radio web site or Dads.org and I am sure you will find the actual program that this idea comes from.

Edwin
Glory be to Jesus Christ! Glory to Him Forever!
 
This is one of the many tragic results of “separation of Church and state.” All governments are based on religious principles to some degree. The further those principles are from the Laws of God, the more chaotic the rule. The further those principles are from the Laws of God, the closer thay are to the precepts of the prince of the world. Western civilization moved rapidly ahead in tune with the Judeo-Christian principles. We, the West, are throwing these out at an ever increasing rate and are slipping into chaos. Among the rules of ordered civiliztion is the premise: The basic unit of society is the family. The natural family has always consisted of a man and a woman and their issue, children. There is nothing natural in the abnormal; that would be a direct contradiction of terms. God ordered the “natural,” all of the perverted claims not withstanding. There always will be perversions (the fall of Adam guarantees it). The degree of success with which society controls and minimizes the perversions always will match their degree of success as a society. History has shown this without exception.

The U.S. Constitution was praised by many foreign thinkers during our early years, and many noted that it was an interesting experiment which could only work among a disciplined and deeply spiritual people.

For those who do not care one way or the other about homosexual and lesbian unions certified by the state as “marriages,” let me remind you of the “advantages” of that certification which costs everybody. More taxes must be collected for government entitlements, social security, medicare, etc. Insurance rates must go up to cover the “spouses” and other legalized dependents who do not contribute to the added cost. The net income of your employer will go down to cover additional benefits for these “spouses,” thus profits are reduced, opportunities for expansion or increased pay rates and benefits are lost to the added costs. Remember, “spouses” are entitled by law to many benefits, all of which cost all of us money out of our pockets. There is no “magic” pot for the government to produce money; the only “pot” is the taxes we pay. Every business MUST cover ALL of its costs, plus a profit, either by raising prices and/or reducing costs (your pay check). Perhaps those who don’t care about God’s condemnation of homosexuality might care about their pocketbooks.
 
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DominvsVobiscvm:
It cheapens the whole idea of marriage, by reducing its purpose to the satisfaction of romantic or sexual drives, no matter the consequence. This may lead more people to get married for the wrong reasons, and these marriages having failed, might result in a higher divorce rate.

Or maybe not. Should we take the risk?
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The difficulty in speaking of the purpose of marriage is that different people and different groups have different purposes. Many people try to say that their purpose should be embraced by all. Well, the rest of the folks don’t choose to do so.

Gay civil marriage is being decided in a secular society which has multiple purposes for marriage.
 
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Ken:
The difficulty in speaking of the purpose of marriage is that different people and different groups have different purposes. Many people try to say that their purpose should be embraced by all. Well, the rest of the folks don’t choose to do so.

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I understand what you are saying here however all I am praying for is that Catholics will become informed voters and vote their faith before they vote a party.
 
The World has certainly turned upsidedown. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think that any past civilization allowed gay marriages: not even ancient Rome or Greece.

Our post-Christian world is more like that of the Roman Empire before Constantine and the conversion of the Empire and Europe. We have little left in common with the Age of Faith. So maybe we should get used to this and more abominations and paganizations of society.

Just so it doesn’t take place in the Catholic Church. Our sacramental marriages will remain as is.

What does surprise me -somewhat - is the attitude of some anti-Catholics. Protestantism has historically seen the papacy as the antichrist. Yet it isn’t the papal antichrist who is promoting homosexuality and gay marriages. But much of Protestantism is, especially in the Episcopal Church. Yet nobody is calling them antichrists.
 
Another idea to keep in mind is that marriage was once the only way to receive certain social benefits. Today there are competing ways.

For example, a woman once was doomed to poverty and social ostracism if she did not marry. Today she can pursue a successful career on her own merits and without a husband.

Children were once necessary to take care of people in their old age. Today that is not the case as large scale social programs have taken the responsibility.
 
I’m thinking of applying for a marriage certificate in Mass. for me and my sheep! Think it will be approved?
 
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Tom:
I’m thinking of applying for a marriage certificate in Mass. for me and my sheep! Think it will be approved?
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Not yet. You’ll have to wait until 2028.

If you don’t want to wait, you can wait until 2014 and you can marry your self 🙂
 
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Ken:
The difficulty in speaking of the purpose of marriage is that different people and different groups have different purposes. Many people try to say that their purpose should be embraced by all. Well, the rest of the folks don’t choose to do so.

Gay civil marriage is being decided in a secular society which has multiple purposes for marriage.
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Ahhh, you make a good point Ken. Marriage has now become a dual concept in our society. For purposes of argument, we must either focus on God’s plan for marriage - where and man leaves his father and mother to become one with his wife.

The second choice would be a secular ideal of tax, economic and social reasons for joining. Ergo the pre-nup - because we need to keep our things when the eventual break up occurs.

The sacrament of marriage is much, much more. It is a covenant with God that is entered into by a man and a woman for eternity. It is part of God’s plan since the begining of time.

One thing that we lose site of today is this… in Matthew 22:21 …“Then repay to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God.” These two are not mutually exclusive.
We have man’s law and we have God’s law. Both existing here on earth. We can follow man’s law until it comes into conflict with God’s law. As Christians - there is no choice! For some day, His will - will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
 
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heenan:
One thing that we lose site of today is this… in Matthew 22:21 …“Then repay to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God.” These two are not mutually exclusive.
We have man’s law and we have God’s law. Both existing here on earth. We can follow man’s law until it comes into conflict with God’s law. As Christians - there is no choice! For some day, His will - will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
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I agree and until he comes we must do all that we can to comform the world to his will.
 
Christ instituted gay marriages. This gay or happy marriage exists only between a man and a woman. There is no other kind of gay marriage that God accepts.
 
I was hoping that someone else would bring this point up besides me. If taken to the extreme, acceptance of homosexual behavior can lead to huge cultural problems. How do we know this? Because it has happened…

In Sparta boys were taken from their mothers at age seven to live with other boys and begin their military training. At age 12 they were paired with an older single man (22-25 years old) who became their teacher, mentor and lover. The problem the Spartans had was when it came time for men to be married they didn’t want to leave their male partners.
To make it easier for her husband to have relations with her on their wedding night the bride would shave her head and wear the clothes of a young boy. Her husband would leave his male lover, come to be with his wife, and then return to his male lover. Some men only took a couple of days before they moved in with their wife, but others took years or never made the transition to normal sexual relations.

These practices led to a rapid decline in population that they tried very hard to remedy but unfortunately it was too late and unsuccessful.

(clipping)Later we find the soil coming more and more into the possession of large landholders, and by the middle of the 3rd century s.c. nearly two-fifths of Laconia belonged to women. Hand in hand with this process went a serious diminution in the number of full citizens, who had numbered 8,000 at the beginning of the 5th century, but had sunk by Aristotle’s day to less than 1,000, and had further decreased to 700 at the accession of Agis IV in 244 BC. The Spartans did what they could to remedy this by law: certain penalties were imposed upon those who remained unmarried or who married too late in life. But the decay was too deeply rooted to be eradicated by such means…(end clip)

Keep in mind that this is an extreme case and the current trent in America is not in this direction. Sparta also totally eliminated money in their culture, something that America will never do.
 
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