Gay Persecution Around the World

[Mark86]

Besides for the one sentence in the Catechism describing how “unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided” (2358)… can anyone point me to where the Church has actively protected or defended or taken a direct and active stance against the human rights atrocities committed against homosexuals (and those assumed to be homosexual for cultural reasons) around the world?

I think it’s a very important pro-life issue, since there are 79 countries around the world where engaging in homosexual behaviors (or even those assumed to be), or even merely being homosexual, will land one in jail for years or decades or even life, or result in brutal executions. Let’s also remember that in many places a prison sentence as a homosexual is a death sentence in itself (due to rape and violence from other inmates). These individuals often don’t even have recourse to the Sacraments as they’re being put to death.

We all know homosexuality is a disorder and its practices sinful, but obviously the reaction it gets around the world in the blatant human rights atrocities that are directed towards it are appalling and nowhere in those areas even remotely resemble Christian understanding and compassion.

I’m just wondering what the Church has done to combat this. I see a lot of pro-lifers carrying signs to protect the unborn millions who are slaughtered every year. That’s good. Where are the pro-lifers carrying signs to protect the homosexual persons slaughtered every year around the world?

 

[Ositokc]

Mark, actually we don’t all know that homosexuality is a disorder, in fact, many of us Catholics and non Catholics alike do not see anything wrong with homosexuality, do not think it is a sin, or think expressing that in any way, even sexual, is wrong or disordered.

Therefore, while it seems your intention is good, it feels like kind of a bait, in the same vain as “love the sinner, hate the sin.” As from the vast threads already on the subject of homosexuality, it seems that those who believe in the “love the sinner, hate the sin” cannot seem to differentiate the 2, and thus somehow feel discrimination and hatred towards gay people IS justifiable, which is quite sad and sickening.

I agree that no one in this world should be persecuted for their color, their religious beliefs, their gender, or their sexuality. Happy new Year and let’s all hope, pray, and lead our lives with tolerance, respect, peace and most of all
love towards our neighbors and our enemies.

 

[ServusHumilis]

What atrocities? The only atrocities I know of is what is currently happening to the view of traditional marriage and the family as well as those of us who refuse to reject natural and divine law. Homosexuality wasn’t even legal all that long ago here either; what’s any different now that it should be?

Homosexuality is certainly a disorder. The only reason it was ever removed in the early 70s from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders is because a bunch of homosexual “activists” barged into a conference of psychologists and demanded as such. They wouldn’t leave and by the end of the conference they finally gave in and agreed to remove it. Does that not sound disordered?

 

[cena]

Mark, actually we don’t all know that homosexuality is a disorder, in fact, many of us Catholics and non Catholics alike do not see anything wrong with homosexuality, do not think it is a sin, or think expressing that in any way, even sexual, is wrong or disordered.

Therefore, while it seems your intention is good, it feels like kind of a bait, in the same vain as “love the sinner, hate the sin.” As from the vast threads already on the subject of homosexuality, it seems that those who believe in the “love the sinner, hate the sin” cannot seem to differentiate the 2, and thus somehow feel discrimination and hatred towards gay people IS justifiable, which is quite sad and sickening.

I agree that no one in this world should be persecuted for their color, their religious beliefs, their gender, or their sexuality. Happy new Year and let’s all hope, pray, and lead our lives with tolerance, respect, peace and most of all
love towards our neighbors and our enemies.

you can’t seem to separate it either. Homosexual actions (even consented thoughts) are sins
I’m not advocating for the death penalty for homosexuals, but homosexual desires/inclinations are disordered and when consent is given grave sins(whether it’s thought, word, deed, etc). Again, without consent it’s not a sin at all. Discriminating people who are not giving in to their temptations is very unjust. We have to treat people with respect but allowing them to gravely sin like that (or worse encouraging them) is wrong.

 

[ServusHumilis]

The only atrocities I know of for sure is what is currently happening to the view of traditional marriage and the family as well as those of us who refuse to reject natural and divine law. Homosexuality wasn’t even legal all that long ago here either; what’s any different now that it should be?

Homosexuality is certainly a disorder. The only reason it was ever removed in the early 70s from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders is because a bunch of homosexual “activists” barged into a conference of psychologists and demanded as such. They wouldn’t leave and by the end of the conference the psychologists finally gave in and agreed to remove it. It was never based on any scientific data or anything of the sort. Does that not sound disordered?

 

[georget]

it seems that those who believe in the “love the sinner, hate the sin” cannot seem to differentiate the 2, and thus somehow feel discrimination and hatred towards gay people IS justifiable, which is quite sad and sickening.

Nonsense. We are perfectly capable of differentiating, to judge with such a broad brush is in itself discrimination. You can do better I’m sure. Your bias is showing.

 

[georget]

Mark, actually we don’t all know that homosexuality is a disorder, in fact, many of us Catholics and non Catholics alike do not see anything wrong with homosexuality, do not think it is a sin, or think expressing that in any way, even sexual, is wrong or disordered.

Therefore, while it seems your intention is good, it feels like kind of a bait, in the same vain as “love the sinner, hate the sin.” As from the vast threads already on the subject of homosexuality, it seems that those who believe in the “love the sinner, hate the sin” cannot seem to differentiate the 2, and thus somehow feel discrimination and hatred towards gay people IS justifiable, which is quite sad and sickening.

I agree that no one in this world should be persecuted for their color, their religious beliefs, their gender, or their sexuality. Happy new Year and let’s all hope, pray, and lead our lives with tolerance, respect, peace and most of all
love towards our neighbors and our enemies.

Nonsense. Those of us who disagree with you are perfectly capable of differentiating the 2, it seems that you are the one discriminating now. I know you can do better if you try.
God be with you

 

[Poussin]

… can anyone point me to where the Church has actively protected or defended or taken a direct and active stance against the human rights atrocities committed against homosexuals (and those assumed to be homosexual for cultural reasons) around the world?

I would first proffer that most of the ‘discrimination’ is not a violation of human rights. Most of the press is regarding the right to marry, and you first need to establish that marriage between same sex couples is a human right or there is no violation. A politically popular position does not become a human right just because it gets a lot of press.

 

[Catholic13]

Mark, actually we don’t all know that homosexuality is a disorder, in fact, many of us Catholics and non Catholics alike do not see anything wrong with homosexuality, do not think it is a sin, or think expressing that in any way, even sexual, is wrong or disordered.

.

There’s nothing wrong with homosexuality? You’re joking, right?

 

[bisco1]

pretty sure pope francis made a definitive statement recently. but on the whole, the church doesn’t have specific positions on every hateful act that man conjures up. they pretty much all fall into one bucket. homosexuals are somewhat fortunate in that they can choose not to act on their inclinations. some people can’t hide whatever they are being persecuted for.

 

[SuperLuigi]

pretty sure pope francis made a definitive statement recently. but on the whole, the church doesn’t have specific positions on every hateful act that man conjures up. they pretty much all fall into one bucket. homosexuals are somewhat fortunate in that they can choose not to act on their inclinations. some people can’t hide whatever they are being persecuted for.

Interesting.

 

[Mark86]

Most of the posts above miss the point of this thread in some way.

pretty sure pope francis made a definitive statement recently. but on the whole, the church doesn’t have specific positions on every hateful act that man conjures up. they pretty much all fall into one bucket. homosexuals are somewhat fortunate in that they can choose not to act on their inclinations. some people can’t hide whatever they are being persecuted for.

In Uganda, not only are people with homosexuality imprisoned for life, but anyone who even suspects someone of being homosexual, and who doesn’t report it, will be imprisoned too (including parents, teachers, doctors, and PRIESTS), if it comes out that the person under their care is homosexual. Like I was saying elsewhere, there are countries in Africa (Liberia, Nigeria…etc.) where two men can’t even sit down next to each other without encountering the suspicion that they are gay, and they will face people’s accusations and even direct persecution, regardless of whether they are actually homosexual. In Nigeria, people with homosexuality are imprisoned for 14 years. People with homosexuality Saudi Arabia are sentenced to “death by lash” …essentially whipped to death. People with homosexuality in Iran and Sudan are sentenced to death.

Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe has called people with homosexuality “worse than pigs, goats, and birds” and has advocated for their routine slaughter just like those animals. Homosexuals are often the victims of violent assaults in these countries, including being rounded up and tortured without due process, with hands and necks and feet broken, bodies burned with irons, and executed either by hangings, firing squads, or stonings. Nobody does anything about it because there’s a “who cares! they’re criminals…” mentality within the culture.

I could go on and on with more examples, they are easy to come by… but my point is, the silence of the Catholic Church on this prompts many to think that the Church of Christ isn’t as compassionate as it claims to be. The thing is, regardless of whether the average Catholic chooses to remain ignorant about it or not, this kind of thing happens, and we simply can’t afford to remain silent. Otherwise what? The prophet Jeremiah rebukes us for our complacency with such objective evils:

**“They have healed the brokenness of My people superficially, Saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ But there is no peace.” ** (Jeremiah 6:14).

Let there be no more sin of omission on our part. Who among us is going to evangelize on this front?

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

I could go on and on with more examples, they are easy to come by… but my point is, the silence of the Catholic Church on this prompts many to think that the Church of Christ isn’t as compassionate as it claims to be. The thing is, regardless of whether the average Catholic chooses to remain ignorant about it or not, this kind of thing happens, and we simply can’t afford to remain silent. Otherwise what? The prophet Jeremiah rebukes us for our complacency with such objective evils:

**“They have healed the brokenness of My people superficially, Saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ But there is no peace.” ** (Jeremiah 6:14).

Let there be no more sin of omission on our part. Who among us is going to evangelize on this front?

I find myself more inclined to evangelize for the safety of Christians who are being beheaded for their faith in some countries.

 

[Jmd96]

I find myself more inclined to evangelize for the safety of Christians who are being beheaded for their faith in some countries.

Why not both?

As Christians, we are not just called to love other Christians, we’re called to love everyone, even our enemies.

That so few Catholics on this board are willing to stand up for the right to life of homosexual persons is incredibly discouraging to me. If being executed for merely being suspected of same-sex attraction isn’t “unjust discrimination”, then what is?

The Vatican itself recognizes that violence against homosexual persons like we see in Uganda is wrong. A few years ago, this statement was read to a UN panel by a representative of the Holy See:

Statement of the Holy See

Mr. Moderator,

Thank you for convening this panel discussion and for providing the opportunity to hear some very serious concerns raised this afternoon. My comments are more in the form of a statement rather than a question.

As stated during the debate of the General Assembly last year, the Holy See continues to oppose all grave violations of human rights against homosexual persons, such as the use of the death penalty, torture and other cruel, inhuman and degrading punishment. The Holy See also opposes all forms of violence and unjust discrimination against homosexual persons, including discriminatory penal legislation which undermines the inherent dignity of the human person.

As raised by some of the panelists today, the murder and abuse of homosexual persons are to be confronted on all levels, especially when such violence is perpetrated by the State. While the Holy See’s position on the concepts of sexual orientation and gender identity remains well known, we continue to call on all States and individuals to respect the rights of all persons and to work to promote their inherent dignity and worth.

Thank you, Mr. Moderator.

(source: boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/12/10/17738)

 

[bisco]

where did you get an idea like that? the vatican represents all catholics, what do you propose, a million man march? of course it’s wrong, but i don’t see the o/p’s solution, just complaining.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Why not both?

As Christians, we are not just called to love other Christians, we’re called to love everyone, even our enemies.

Hey…we gotta start somewhere. Might as well start forcing these backwards cultures to embrace our American ideals of human rights by not beheading Christians. Then we can insist that homosexuals be treated as equals. Regardless of what their primitive religious beliefs teach.

Why not start a 21st Century Crusade??

 

[SuperLuigi]

Besides for the one sentence in the Catechism describing how “unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided” (2358)… can anyone point me to where the Church has actively protected or defended or taken a direct and active stance against the human rights atrocities committed against homosexuals (and those assumed to be homosexual for cultural reasons) around the world?

I think it’s a very important pro-life issue, since there are 79 countries around the world where engaging in homosexual behaviors (or even those assumed to be), or even merely being homosexual, will land one in jail for years or decades or even life, or result in brutal executions. Let’s also remember that in many places a prison sentence as a homosexual is a death sentence in itself (due to rape and violence from other inmates). These individuals often don’t even have recourse to the Sacraments as they’re being put to death.

We all know homosexuality is a disorder and its practices sinful, but obviously the reaction it gets around the world in the blatant human rights atrocities that are directed towards it are appalling and nowhere in those areas even remotely resemble Christian understanding and compassion.

I’m just wondering what the Church has done to combat this. I see a lot of pro-lifers carrying signs to protect the unborn millions who are slaughtered every year. That’s good. Where are the pro-lifers carrying signs to protect the homosexual persons slaughtered every year around the world?

First of all, abortion is a very grave evil, and maybe the most grievous evil of our time. That’s why you see Catholics carrying around signs. If you’re going to compare the killing of adults, even homosexuals which you seem to regard as eerily precious, to that of the unborn child in the name absolute justice, well, it could easily be argued that abortion is the graver evil.

Secondly, it seems to me that there are plenty of gay “marriage” activists who would take up this mantle on the surface, so why not ask them? Or have you already figured out that the buck for “equality” and such stops when they might be called racist by another culture, such as those who live in Botswana.

Third, what is your reason for posting this? Are you hoping to score tolerance points with gay “marriage” activists even though you evidently disagree with them? Do you really think that’s going to work?

 

[bisco1]

this thread seems to have an agenda…

 

[Mark86]

First of all, abortion is a very grave evil, and maybe the most grievous evil of our time. That’s why you see Catholics carrying around signs. If you’re going to compare the killing of adults, even homosexuals which you seem to regard as eerily precious, to that of the unborn child in the name absolute justice, well, it could easily be argued that abortion is the graver evil.

It was my impression that all human life is precious. Christ gave me that impression. I don’t see him prioritizing one form of human life over another when it comes to His Mercy and Compassion. I don’t see why we can’t pray for an end to both atrocities… an end to abortion and an end to persecution of homosexuals. I’m simply asking, who among us will?

Secondly, it seems to me that there are plenty of gay “marriage” activists who would take up this mantle on the surface, so why not ask them?

I’d like to see what the Church can do on this issue, for a change.

I’m saying there’s more to the care of homosexual persons and their needs around the world than the program of constant resistance to anything that has to do with them. They are the modern day Samaritans (as far as many in the Church are concerned), and so I applaud those, and especially the bishops and recent popes who I know have addressed these issues and implored the faithful to offer and do things for the suffering homosexuals around the world (Pope Benedict XVI, especially) that many within the Church seem unwilling or unable to take a stand for. The method of total silence on the reality of this atrocity has driven a wedge that I would like to see mended, as I’m sure it would be of great benefit for the Church’s pastoral care of homosexual people throughout the world.

Suffering is suffering, and if one suffers then we all suffer with him, whether it be in the womb or on the firing line. Merely suggesting that the Church also remember to offer herself as Mother toward those who are suffering needlessly because of their homosexuality should not be countered as such an “offense” to the Mercy of the Lord as it’s often assumed to be for some reason.

Third, what is your reason for posting this? Are you hoping to score tolerance points with gay “marriage” activists even though you evidently disagree with them? Do you really think that’s going to work?

My point was to ask what the Church has done on this pro-life issue, and what can be done. I’m interested in hopefully inspiring some people here to compassion and offer prayers for those suffering under this disorder all over the world, who are also facing unjust discrimination, torture, and even death on top of it, and I welcome you to consider doing the same.

 

[bisco1]

maybe try prayer intentions, i’m on board.