Gay Persecution Around the World

[Mark86]

I have merely asked that it be established there is a human right violation before we chastise an entity for human right violations.

What am I supposed to do? Go there and take pictures for you? Get you on the phone with some doctor rotting in a jail cell in Uganda because one of his patients appeared in that tabloid homosexual “HIT list” and he didn’t “report” the individual to the death camps? I’m convinced there’s nothing I could do to get through to you. I’m sorry.

The fact of the matter is you don’t want to believe it exists regardless anything I show you, regardless of what any church official has said regarding it, and regardless of whether there are human rights abuses or not.

So you might as well go elsewhere. You have a right to not concern yourself with the persecution of gays around that world if that is your choice. I’m not going to force you to care about these individuals against your will, much less do something like pray for them.

Soon when “being Christian” is made illegal and carries a sentence of death, maybe you’ll change your tune about how a country should have this unlimited and un-questionable right to wantonly destroy and end the lives of its citizens any way it wants so long as there’s at a “law” within that country saying it’s okay for them to do so.

Way to stick up for the brutal dictators of the world. They can declare anyone they want to be a “criminal” and have them killed by that reasoning, and the Church would then have to agree with it because they had the right to do it? I don’t think so.

 

[Mark86]

What am I supposed to do? Go there and take pictures for you? Get you on the phone with some doctor rotting in a jail cell in Uganda because one of his patients appeared in that tabloid homosexual “HIT list” and he didn’t “report” the individual to the death camps? I’m convinced there’s nothing I could do to get through to you. I’m sorry.

The fact of the matter is you don’t want to believe it exists regardless anything I show you, regardless of what any church official has said regarding it, and regardless of whether there are human rights abuses or not.

So you might as well go elsewhere. You have a right to not concern yourself with the persecution of gays around that world if that is your choice. I’m not going to force you to care about these individuals against your will, much less do something like pray for them.

Soon when “being Christian” is made illegal and carries a sentence of death, maybe you’ll change your tune about how a country should have this unlimited and un-questionable right to wantonly destroy and end the lives of its citizens any way it wants so long as there’s at a “law” within that country saying it’s okay for them to do so. They can declare anyone they want to be a “criminal” and have them killed by that reasoning, and the Church would then have to agree with it because they had the right to do it? I don’t think so.

 

[ServusHumilis]

Anti-scientific and anti-natural nonsense.

The only thing anti-scieintific is the methods in which homosexuals were able to have their disorder removed from the DSM. Homosexuality is both against natural law as well as common sense.

That doesn’t even come close to what actually happened. Outrageous lies spread by those involved with religious cults that have been hostile towards homosexual people for thousand years and that stood behind the beginning of the mass persecution of homosexual people that began with the spread of Christianity(historical fact) using the words of their god written in their so-called “holy books”

I suggest you look into the degenerate criminals Alfred Kinsey and Rex King who helped pave the way to the misery we’re now going through with their “science.”

And sorry but we’re not “Nazis” because we refuse to glorify those with this disorder. Sodomy is not a human right.

 

[ServusHumilis]

Anti-scientific and anti-natural nonsense.

The only thing anti-scieintific is the methods in which homosexuals were able to have their disorder removed from the DSM. Homosexuality is both against natural law as well as common sense.

That doesn’t even come close to what actually happened. Outrageous lies spread by those involved with religious cults that have been hostile towards homosexual people for thousand years and that stood behind the beginning of the mass persecution of homosexual people that began with the spread of Christianity(historical fact) using the words of their god written in their so-called “holy books”

I suggest you look into the degenerate criminals Alfred Kinsey and Rex King who helped pave the way to the misery we’re now going through with their highly illegal “science” (historical fact).

And sorry but we’re not “Nazis” because we refuse to glorify those with this disorder. Sodomy is not a human right.

 

[Poussin]

What am I supposed to do? Go there and take pictures for you? Get you on the phone with some doctor rotting in a jail cell in Uganda because one of his patients appeared in that tabloid homosexual “HIT list” and he didn’t “report” the individual to the death camps? I’m convinced there’s nothing I could do to get through to you. I’m sorry.

The fact of the matter is you don’t want to believe it exists regardless anything I show you, regardless of what any church official has said regarding it, and regardless of whether there are human rights abuses or not.

So you might as well go elsewhere. You have a right to not concern yourself with the persecution of gays around that world if that is your choice. I’m not going to force you to care about these individuals against your will, much less do something like pray for them.

Soon when “being Christian” is made illegal and carries a sentence of death, maybe you’ll change your tune about how a country should have this unlimited and un-questionable right to wantonly destroy and end the lives of its citizens any way it wants so long as there’s at a “law” within that country saying it’s okay for them to do so. They can declare anyone they want to be a “criminal” and have them killed by that reasoning, and the Church would then have to agree with it because they had the right to do it? I don’t think so.

What are you supposed to do? Well, for starters provide facts instead of sensationalized rhetoric and emotional diatribes. You start this thread asserting there is a violation of human rights and when challenged you refer us to a UN Declaration. Nowhere in the UN document does it say that Uganda is violating human rights for enforcing its criminal code. I have asked you to differentiate against the crime of homosexuality and murder. In response we are merely told that we are disgusting for even questioning the legitimacy of your claims. A law against certain behaviors is not equivalent to a law against religious conscience. States pass criminal statutes, and those statutes do not violate human rights merely because you do not agree with them. The solution for the ‘victims’ is to not engage in that behavior. If they do, they suffer the sentence.

Now if you want to develop a position in which the penalty for homosexuality in Uganda is disproportional with the crime, then we can have an academic discussion in which I may just give a little. I am not, however, going to allow emotion trump academic inquiry. So far, it would appear you find the imprisonment, by itself, some sort of human right violation, but provide no differentiating factors from other crimes resulting in imprisonment. Why should homosexual acts have a different standard than other criminal acts?

 

[SMGS127]

What are you supposed to do? Well, for starters provide facts instead of sensationalized rhetoric and emotional diatribes. You start this thread asserting there is a violation of human rights and when challenged you refer us to a UN Declaration. Nowhere in the UN document does it say that Uganda is violating human rights for enforcing its criminal code. I have asked you to differentiate against the crime of homosexuality and murder. In response we are merely told that we are disgusting for even questioning the legitimacy of your claims. A law against certain behaviors is not equivalent to a law against religious conscience. States pass criminal statutes, and those statutes do not violate human rights merely because you do not agree with them. The solution for the ‘victims’ is to not engage in that behavior. If they do, they suffer the sentence.

Now if you want to develop a position in which the penalty for homosexuality in Uganda is disproportional with the crime, then we can have an academic discussion in which I may just give a little. I am not, however, going to allow emotion trump academic inquiry. So far, it would appear you find the imprisonment, by itself, some sort of human right violation, but provide no differentiating factors from other crimes resulting in imprisonment. Why should homosexual acts have a different standard than other criminal acts?

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/12/11/gay-people-are-not-criminals-says-cardinal-gracias/

According to AsiaNews, Cardinal Gracias, a member of the Council of Cardinals advising Pope Francis on Curial reform, said “the Catholic Church has never been opposed to the decriminalisation of homosexuality, because we have never considered gay people criminals.”

“As Christians, we express our full respect for homosexuals. The Catholic Church is opposed to the legalisation of gay marriage, but teaches that homosexuals have the same dignity of every human being and condemns all forms of unjust discrimination, harassment or abuse,” Cardinal Gracias said.

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2014/03/04/cardinal-turkson-criticises-ugandas-anti-gay-law/

According to reports, Cardinal Turkson of Ghana, president of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, said earlier today that “homosexuals are not criminals” and shouldn’t be sentenced to life in prison.

 

[Poussin]

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/12/11/gay-people-are-not-criminals-says-cardinal-gracias/

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2014/03/04/cardinal-turkson-criticises-ugandas-anti-gay-law/

Your citations are not dispositve, in the least, of the issue. The first one pertains to India, not Uganda and does not take a position that laws against homosexuals are a violation of human rights.

The second citation refers to one person presenting a political (not theological) sentiment that the homosexuality laws should be repealed but does not even hint at going as far as indicating they are a violation of human rights. Furthermore, the Bishops counsel seemingly disagrees. I have never said that it is not legitimate to argue against such laws, merely that the existence of such laws do not establish a human rights violation. We change laws in this country all the time and not based on human rights grounds but a result of the democratic process. Your articles do not establish anything different.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

That’s great Oldcatholicguy. I can go along with that. Let us re-establish the Knights Templar, ask a blessing from the Vatican, and invade Uganda.

I am sure we could expect some support from a few other countries who would want to “hold the act of just living to be a fundamental right.” After we put all the Ugandans to the sword we could establish a safe haven for homosexuals. Their own country, so to speak.

Think about it. Rainbow Nation…or whatever they would want to call it. Of course it would only exist for one generation. Without reproduction there wouldn’t be many citizens left…

Oh well…for one brief moment we had Camelot.

Yes, because the only other alternative to not using the rather flawed American ideals as the basis for one’s moral compass is to of course re-establish a religious military order and then engage in actions that violate the teachings of the faith said military order is based upon.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Of course we could pray for gays (who really need prayers) but I think we need ACTION.

Remember "the Church Militant".

We MUST get out there and do something. Prayer is important …but Catholic Action is called for.

I propose an invasion of Uganda by a New Age Holy Roman Catholic Crusade. After they are forced into complete submission we can establish a Roman Catholic form of government based on Cannon Law.

Think about the message this would send to those other barbarian cultures who behead Christians. They would be shaking in their boots. They would ask themselves…if that is what the Crusaders do to countries that mistreat homosexuals…imagine what they will do to us…who behead Christians???

Prayer is important for our overall victory…but real Catholic Action is what is called for.

So in your mind the life of a Christian is somehow of more value than the life of a homosexual. Funny, I’m pretty sure the Church teaches that all lives are of equal value since all are from God.

 

[Tigg]

I’m always slightly suspicious of threads like this given the fact that Christians in over 40 nations of the world today are being persecuted for believing in Christ. The year 2014 had more martyrs for the faith than ever before. But I’ll go along with it if it isn’t agenda driven and doesn’t try to reinterpret Christ’s prohibition against sex between two people of the same gender. But quite honestly, although I do believe there is isolated true homophobia, at this stage of the game I’m just as sympathetic toward the innocents who are genuinely intimidated by the gays and their radical lobby and mocked and scorned into silence. I sometimes wonder just who is bullying who. When school boards are convinced by gays not to hire Christians, when the Dept of Education and others use the force of the federal government to attempt to indoctrinate school age Christian kids on homosexuality and undermine parental authority, and astonishingly even have the nerve to imply that traditional morality is responsible for teen suicides, really……I must ask just who has the upper hand here?

Given the force of the movement and its aggressive nature, it is realistic to ask who is the most discriminated and persecuted and how is it many do not recognize the clear and present danger which goal is to remove all moral boundaries from human sexuality.

 

[Poussin]

So in your mind the life of a Christian is somehow of more value than the life of a homosexual. Funny, I’m pretty sure the Church teaches that all lives are of equal value since all are from God.

A more accurate way of stating it is the life of a Christian is more valuable than the inconvenience of a non-Christian imposed by Christian beliefs.

 

[Tigg]

I could go on and on with more examples, they are easy to come by… but my point is, the silence of the Catholic Church on this prompts many to think that the Church of Christ isn’t as compassionate as it claims to be. The thing is, regardless of whether the average Catholic chooses to remain ignorant about it or not, this kind of thing happens, and we simply can’t afford to remain silent. Otherwise what? The prophet Jeremiah rebukes us for our complacency with such objective evils:

**“They have healed the brokenness of My people superficially, Saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ But there is no peace.” ** (Jeremiah 6:14).

Let there be no more sin of omission on our part. Who among us is going to evangelize on this front?

The CDF has spoken clearly on this. Why do you think the Church not compassionate?

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

And further clarification comes:

Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder. …] It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church’s pastors wherever it occurs.

Ratzinger asserted that, while Christians rightly oppose any violence against homosexual persons, it is wrong to then claim that the homosexual orientation is good or neutral:

But the proper reaction to crimes committed against homosexual persons should not be to claim that the homosexual condition is not disordered. When such a claim is made and when homosexual activity is consequently condoned, or when civil legislation is introduced to protect behaviour to which no one has any conceivable right, neither the Church nor society at large should be surprised when other distorted notions and practices gain ground, and irrational and violent reactions increase.