Gay priest fired from chaplain job asks Pope Francis to meet LGBT Catholics in U.S

[ProdigalSun]

FWIW, homosexual attraction does not equal a predilection towards pedophilia. Men that like men are not going to necessarily be attracted to little boys and more than men who like women would be attracted to little girls. Pedophilia is a different disorder entirely. I’m kind of offended on behalf of gays when this is suggested.

I never said that just because one has an SSA that the are pedophiles. I actually said nothing about pedophilia. I am talking about Men attracted to older youths. “Post Pubescent” Pedophilia is with prepubescent children. So again no need to be offended because this is not what was suggested.

Peace!

 

[pensmama87]

I’ve never heard that reasoning before. Can an impotent man become a priest? How about an asexual man? It doesn’t seem consistent to me.

It also ignores the fact that for 1000 years married men were able to become priests in the Roman Church and still are in the Eastern. There’s no sacrifice in those situations since they have a sexual outlet. Chastity is much easier when you can have sex with someone so there’s not really much of a sacrifice or at least no more than your average Catholic.

I believe the real answer is that gay men can become priests as long as the Bishop gives the okay.

With charity, I would ask you rethink this. Married chastity frequently requires sacrifice, albeit of a different nature than celibacy.

I also find it distasteful to associate “having a spouse” as “having an outlet,” as if a wife were simply a “receptacle” for her husband’s urges. It comes across as incredibly objectifying.

At any rate, the way a married man relates to his wife is the exact metaphor used to describe Christ and his Church. A man who experiences difficulty relating to others as a man, and sexuality is a part of that, is probably not suited to priesthood.

 

[J_Peterson]

An impotent or asexual man cannot be a priest either.

When I was in the seminary old priests told me that when society was far more agricultural they were asked prior to admission if they had castrated animals (pigs, cattle, or horses) since this would exclude them too.

Where did you get that from? I saw nothing about that in the Code of Canon Law under Holy Orders.

Do they really ask men if they 1) can have sex and 2) if they enjoy it? What if they simply responded by saying “I don’t know, I’ve never tried”. Is never trying any type of sexual activity an impediment?

I guess I’ve never seen a paralyzed priest but never thought in a million years that it would prevent someone from being ordained.

 

[J_Peterson]

With charity, I would ask you rethink this. Married chastity frequently requires sacrifice, albeit of a different nature than celibacy.

I also find it distasteful to associate “having a spouse” as “having an outlet,” as if a wife were simply a “receptacle” for her husband’s urges. It comes across as incredibly objectifying.

At any rate, the way a married man relates to his wife is the exact metaphor used to describe Christ and his Church. A man who experiences difficulty relating to others as a man, and sexuality is a part of that, is probably not suited to priesthood.

I am a married man and I go to confession a lot so I know the difficulties involved. I’ve had priests in confession call it a sexual outlet. I’m trying to keep it more clinical, didn’t mean to offend.

My point wasn’t that there’s no sacrifice. (name removed by moderator) stated that gay men can’t become priests because they aren’t supposed to have sex anyway so there’s no sacrifice in not having sex. I find it really hard to believe that a celibate gay man doesn’t suffer for his celibacy.

A gay man can relate to others as a man so I’m not sure what you mean in your last sentence. Is it really important who a priest wants to have sex with, if anyone? Do you really think out of all the priests you’ve known, none have been gay?

 

[pensmama87]

I am a married man and I go to confession a lot so I know the difficulties involved. I’ve had priests in confession call it a sexual outlet. I’m trying to keep it more clinical, didn’t mean to offend.

My point wasn’t that there’s no sacrifice. (name removed by moderator) stated that gay men can’t become priests because they aren’t supposed to have sex anyway so there’s no sacrifice in not having sex. I find it really hard to believe that a celibate gay man doesn’t suffer for his celibacy.

A gay man can relate to others as a man so I’m not sure what you mean in your last sentence. Is it really important who a priest wants to have sex with, if anyone? Do you really think out of all the priests you’ve known, none have been gay?

I don’t think that’s what we are saying (and if you’d read my previous posts on this thread you’d know that) . I think we are saying that if a person cannot get past his same-sex attraction (i.e. is living a gay lifestyle, or dealing with a lot of problems related to temptation in this area) that he’s probably not called to the priesthood - at least at this time.

Some men are able to achieve what I guess would be called a level of “sobriety” with regards to same-sex attraction. This doesn’t mean that they “turn straight” but that the attraction no longer has the same power over them that it used to. Being around other men while in formation would not be the same occasion of sin that it might be for someone else still really battling temptations frequently.

I’d say the same for a straight man with an active pornography addiction. Or if abstinence had only been recently attempted with success.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Some men are able to achieve what I guess would be called a level of “sobriety” with regards to same-sex attraction. This doesn’t mean that they “turn straight” but that the attraction no longer has the same power over them that it used to. Being around other men while in formation would not be the same occasion of sin that it might be for someone else still really battling temptations frequently. .

And how would you understand gay priests who are publicly out?

 

[pensmama87]

And how would you understand gay priests who are publicly out?

Depends on what you mean by “out.” If someone is open with a major struggle with sin they’ve dealt with in their life, that’s one thing - but probably still subject to prudence as far as how to disclose that and when.

If someone is advocating a sinful lifestyle, that is completely inappropriate for anyone, but especially inappropriate for a priest.

 

[ProdigalSun]

And how would you understand gay priests who are publicly out?

If there are gay clergy which I’m sure there are most of these would be from the older generation of priests.

I believe that one of the results of the abuse scandal was to take a firmer stance against admitting men with deep seated SSA. This was achieved with psychological testing during the admission process.

I believe/hope the these next generations of priests will be more faithful to the magisterium and the overall Church.

Peace:thumbsup:

 

[ComplineSanFran]

If there are gay clergy which I’m sure there are most of these would be from the older generation of priests.

I believe that one of the results of the abuse scandal was to take a firmer stance against admitting men with deep seated SSA. This was achieved with psychological testing during the admission process.

I believe/hope the these next generations of priests will be more faithful to the magisterium and the overall Church. :

Most of the gay priests I know are in their 40’s to early 60’s.

 

[pensmama87]

Most of the gay priests I know are in their 40’s to early 60’s.

Since you list your religion as Anglican, you may have a different understanding of priesthood than Catholics do.

 

[Corki]

And how would you understand gay priests who are publicly out?

They tend to fall into one of two camps. The first are those willing to be “out” about their sexual orientation as a means to demonstrate that is is possible to live a life as a chaste homosexual with a vocation. These priests need our prayers and support.

There are a few who use their sexuality as a way to try to drive a discussion about Church teaching and to stir up dissent. These priests also need our prayers as do their bishops who need to deal with them and the fallout they leave behind.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Since you list your religion as Anglican, you may have a different understanding of priesthood than Catholics do.

Sorry, I should have been more precise. I was referring to Roman Catholic priests.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Most of the gay priests I know are in their 40’s to early 60’s.

Are you asking us to just take your word for that? I am supposed to just believe you that you know Gay priest in their 40 to 60 range. hmmm interesting!

If indeed you do know priests in the 40 to 60 range that does not make my point invalid. I repeat that most would be in the earlier generation. I would suspect the amount of priests with with deep seated SSA from this older generation would be the same percentage as the general population at that time about 1 to 2 percent. With the new screening protocols in place I’m sure the number of Priests with deep seated SSA would be far less. I have certainly noticed many of the young priests being ordained, in our diocese of Calgary, are very orthodox and on fire for the Lord.

:thumbsupeace

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Are you asking us to just take your word for that? I am supposed to just believe you that you know Gay priest in their 40 to 60 range. hmmm interesting!

If indeed you do know priests in the 40 to 60 range that does not make my point invalid. I repeat that most would be in the earlier generation. I would suspect the amount of priests with with deep seated SSA from this older generation would be the same percentage as the general population at that time about 1 to 2 percent. With the new screening protocols in place I’m sure the number of Priests with deep seated SSA would be far less. I have certainly noticed many of the young priests being ordained, in our diocese of Calgary, are very orthodox and on fire for the Lord.

:thumbsupeace

Yes, I do know quite a few Roman Catholic priests, most of them are in their 40’s to 60’s. And most of them are gay; some publicly and some quiet about it. My experience has been that the numbers are particularly high in that demographic. Your experience has been that the younger ones are less so.

I will have to go back and find the reports that talk about the number of gay men in the priesthood in North America. 50% would seem about right to me, especially when some would abstain from saying.

Orthodox and on fire for the Lord? One can be gay and both those things, don’t you think?

 

[Corki]

Orthodox and on fire for the Lord? One can be gay and both those things, don’t you think?

A younger priest, who entered after the current restrictions on ordaining homosexuals could be** either** orthodox and on first for the Lord or “gay” but not both. If homosexual, he would have used deception in order to be ordained.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Yes, I do know quite a few Roman Catholic priests, most of them are in their 40’s to 60’s. And most of them are gay; some publicly and some quiet about it. My experience has been that the numbers are particularly high in that demographic. Your experience has been that the younger ones are less so.

I will have to go back and find the reports that talk about the number of gay men in the priesthood in North America. 50% would seem about right to me, especially when some would abstain from saying.

Orthodox and on fire for the Lord? One can be gay and both those things, don’t you think?

This is simply untrue, 50% of the Priesthood in a America is Gay, At the very most it will follow the same percentage in population as the general public. 1 to 2 percent. But I will tell you what I will give you 10 percent. That means there are aprox. 400 gay priests in the states. Most of which must be in your San Fran Diocese. But since there are no actual stats out there and only guess work. I’m sure we will never know. I do know that much less are being admitted to the seminaries because of a greater emphasis on testing. This will go along way to decreasing much of the homosexual scandals in the future.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

This is simply untrue, 50% of the Priesthood in a America is Gay, At the very most it will follow the same percentage in population as the general public. 1 to 2 percent. But I will tell you what I will give you 10 percent. That means there are aprox. 400 gay priests in the states. Most of which must be in your San Fran Diocese. But since there are no actual stats out there and only guess work. I’m sure we will never know. I do know that much less are being admitted to the seminaries because of a greater emphasis on testing. This will go along way to decreasing much of the homosexual scandals in the future.

I with there were accurate studies out there that could help with this. 400 gay priests in the US? That is rather absurd. I do know that about 10 years ago, Fr Donald Cozens wrote his book on the future of the priesthood and his numbers ranged from 23 to 58%. I’ve seen other figures that are in that range also.

americamagazine.org/issue/387/article/church-and-homosexual-priest

The class of younger men who are entering seminary may indeed have a different make-up, but my guess is that there will always be a gay subculture within the priesthood, especially in communal life.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

This is simply untrue, 50% of the Priesthood in a America is Gay, At the very most it will follow the same percentage in population as the general public. 1 to 2 percent. But I will tell you what I will give you 10 percent. That means there are aprox. 400 gay priests in the states. Most of which must be in your San Fran Diocese. But since there are no actual stats out there and only guess work. I’m sure we will never know. I do know that much less are being admitted to the seminaries because of a greater emphasis on testing. This will go along way to decreasing much of the homosexual scandals in the future.

Amongst priests admitted before 1990 the percent is way higher than 1-2% given that for a Catholic man of the time the only way to not be hassled about lack of dating or marriage was to either become a priest or a monk. For a gay man who didn’t desire to be in a relationship with a woman the priesthood offered the perfect escape, no Catholic would fault him for lack of relationships with women and it offered a respectable position in society. For a heterosexual man giving up marriage would be a sacrifice whereas to a gay man giving up marriage is very likely viewed as giving up a burden. There were lots of reasons for gay men to join the priesthood whereas for a heterosexual man the concept of giving up sex and the ability to be a father was a major strike against joining the priesthood.