Gay to Straight?

[BobObob]

SEXUAL DESIRE IS NOT THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM!!

I thought I should emphasize this.

In my opinion, homosexuality is a symptom and a product of other social and emotional problems that one began earlier in life. This is why you can’t treat homosexuality directly, you need to treat it’s particular causes in the particular person you are treating.

It should be noted, however, that the causes for homosexuality in females can vary more than in males.

Carla, your post operates on the assumption that gay people are gay because of some trauma that happened in their lives.

I think that the exert that Carla gave from the Catholic Medical Association was not trying to say that homosexuality is usually caused by trauma as in trauma from a traumatic event. I think that it is rather referring to emotional trauma throughout the course of growing up.

Personally, as someone with homosexual attractions, I think that the causes for homosexuality are usually social and emotional problems that start early on. I tend to think that the father/son relationship may be a little overrated in the development of homosexual attractions, while the boy’s relationship to his male peers may be underrated.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

What are the variables that “cause” heterosexuality?

If sexual orientation can be “caused” by childhood experiences, it would work both ways-right?

When I read these things it sounds like a guidebook for parents who want to know that they are doing everything “right” so their child doesn’t end up gay. What happens when they do everything “right” and they get a gay kid anyway? Ship 'em off to the “re-orientation camp”?

I know too many gay people who came from stable loving backgrounds, who don’t use drugs or alcohol and who are in every way but orientation exactly like straight people. I know more heterosexuals with drug, alcohol and relationship issues, to be truthful.

Real life experience with gay people is what has me struggling with these things. I find too many examples where the “truth” isn’t really true in the real world.

 

[CarlaOLS]

What are the variables that “cause” heterosexuality?

Mking accept my sincere apologies if my previous post sounded angry - it was never meant to be - perhaps my frustration was showing. I love you more than you can guess.

Each person is so unique, thier personality, their families, their experiences and their perceptions, so many different factors over our childhood and into our adulthood. What is sure is that same sex attraction is not genetic. We’ve hashed that point out earlier here - instead I’d like to address your question as it pertains to Lesbianism. But it is only the tip of the iceberg.

Understanding the Roots of Female Homosexuality

Compiled by Jodi Carlson

How do you define female homosexuality?

Homosexuality is one of the most hotly debated topics in society today. Today’s culture is sending confusing messages about this issue. Television, movies and other forms of media try to convince us it is normal. Because of the dominant pro-gay (or vocal anti-gay) worldviews competing within our culture, voices of reason are silenced or maligned—and wherever questions abound, complexity rules.

Beginning in the late 1960s, the scientific and psychological communities began to do away with a traditional understanding of the developmental causes and treatments of homosexuality. Needless to say, this was politically motivated as gay activists made inroads into these fields. This article on the causes of female homosexuality will strip away the myths and mixed messages, and foster a new understanding and compassion for those struggling with same-sex attraction. The contributors to this article are considered experts in lesbian research and recovery and will present another perspective—albeit a politically unpopular one. Their knowledge is extensive; collectively, they have counseled thousands of women seeking freedom from unwanted homosexuality. In addition to this article, Focus on the Family has a booklet available entitled: “The Heart of the Matter: The Roots and Causes of Female Homosexuality.” You can order this resource online at www.family.org or call us at 1.800.A.Family.

What homosexuality is…
Agendas, biases and prejudices aside, just what is the definition of a homosexual? Dr. Lawrence Hatterer, a nationally recognized psychiatrist who specializes in treating male homosexuality, offers a thorough explanation. Pertaining more to men than women, his definition nonetheless provides a basic foundation for understanding. He defines homosexuality as, “One who is motivated in adult life by a definite preferential erotic attraction to members of the same sex and who usually, but not necessarily, engages in overt sexual relations with them.”1 Female homosexuality, while similar in some ways to male homosexuality, is still more complex. According to Starla Allen, an author and mental health professional, lesbianism “includes all women whose sexual and emotional attractions are fulfilled by women” (emphasis added).2 These emotional and relational longings are the obvious differences between female and male homosexuals.3
…

 

[CarlaOLS]

con’t

Preconditioning factors
Female homosexuality actually has very little to do with sex. Rather, female homosexuality is driven by non-sexual, emotional and relational deficits that are usually—but not exclusively—based on one or more of the following preconditioning factors. While we will examine the root causes of lesbianism, please keep in mind that homosexuality is complex and a combination of factors work together to create this condition. It is too simplistic to attribute undue significance to any single aspect. Each preconditioning factor listed here, as well as others not discussed, can destroy a girl’s healthy perception of what it means to be female.

Physical trauma, including but not limited to:

Sexual abuse
Incest
Rape
Neglect

Emotional trauma, including but not limited to:
Abandonment
Rejection
Unmet needs for love, acceptance, gender identification and validation
Absence of nurturing
Lack of protection
Verbal abuse

Skewed or unhealthy parental roles:16
Mom—Fails to fulfill her role as nurturer Dad—Fails to protect by being passive and/or unavailable
An unhealthy family environment:
Any dysfunction causing the child to perceive the world as unsafe and threatening

Personality temperament:
Insecure, alone, empty
Energetic/hyperactive
Creative, bright
Intuitive
Keenly aware of surroundings
Self-protective

Relationship issue: The first component of lesbianism

All human beings were created to be in relationship with one another. God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone” (Gen. 2:18). Relationships are vital, but on earth none are perfect, nor will they ever be. Inappropriate homosexual attractions are developed and pursued largely because of the breakdown in a girl’s initial relationship with her family—mother and father directly influence her ability to develop the capacity to connect with others in a healthy manner.17 If you are the parent of a young girl who may be displaying prototypical lesbian characteristics, please understand that each girl is unique and sees herself and the world around her differently. No matter how sophisticated your parenting skills are, a child’s perception ultimately becomes her reality.

Sexual abuse: The second component of lesbianism
Anne Paulk, author, previous Exodus International board member, and former lesbian, conducted a study in 2001 directed at women overcoming homosexuality. Of the 265 women who responded, the results reveal the tremendous weight many preconditioning factors hold:

69.1 percent experienced emotional abuse

55.7 percent received emotional trauma including sexual innuendoes and specific sexual remarks that made her feel violated

66.4 percent were victims of sexual abuse

53.2 percent were verbally abused

39.6 percent felt abandoned

32.5 percent were victims of physical abuse

20.0 percent felt utterly neglected
Of those who were sexually abused, almost 80 percent were molested by males. Forty-two percent of those cases were incestuous. Twenty percent were molested by females.18

The lesbian struggle is not a sexual orientation problem; it is an identity crisis.

An identity struggle: The second component of lesbianism

The lesbian struggle is not a sexual orientation problem; it is an identity crisis. Research shows that relationship, a deep connection with others and self-identity are all inseparable for women. Consequently, when the process of learning who they are is derailed by broken or unhealthy relationships, an identity crisis develops. Typically, rejection, abandonment and separation from Mom, and unavailable, negative or abusive treatment by Dad, combined with other factors, communicate that being a woman is unacceptable, unsafe and ugly. These women often despise being female.19 Lesbians are searching for a basic sense of self, as well as for an identity, and their concept of femininity has been distorted.

The developmental stages: How females develop homosexual attractions: Infancy
The primary influence in a baby girl’s life is her relationship with her mother. Ideally, the infant first bonds with and perceives her as nurturer, comforter and provider of life’s basic elements: food, warmth, protection, safety and love. An infant’s strong physical bond with her mother reinforces a sense of safety and security. Attachment to mother is essential: It is the foundation of her feminine identity.20

A baby can be denied these essentials for numerous reasons. For example, hospitalization may interrupt the initial bonding process without intention. In addition, when a female perceives or experiences rejection, abandonment or separation from her primary female caregiver, particularly as an infant, it may color all of her future relationships. The earlier the separation and neglect is perceived, the more profound the feelings of isolation and desolation21—and the more vulnerable she becomes to sexual identity confusion. Failing to obtain this attachment to mother is not the cause of homosexuality by any means; it simply opens the door for a child’s susceptibility to same-sex attraction in a number of subsequent developmental stages, including the formation of gender identity.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Anyway, all kidding aside, the Catholic Church makes it quite easy to make the right choice. You can’t have sex until you are married. You can’t get married to a person who is the same sex as you. Therefore you can’t have sex if you are gay. End of story.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

Anyway, all kidding aside, the Catholic Church makes it quite easy to make the right choice. You can’t have sex until you are married. You can’t get married to a person who is the same sex as you. Therefore you can’t have sex if you are gay. End of story.

Easy if you’re straight and you have some hope of having sex at some point before you die.

Gay people are forced into the same celibate lives as Priests, Sisters, Monks and Nuns-but without the evaluation that individuals that choose those lifestyles go through. Have you known anyone who has entered an order? The process is intense, chiefly because the Church knows the difficulties that a lifetime of celibacy brings. The Church knows that not everyone is called to that existence, yet it is demanded of gay people. And at the same time, those gay people are completely cut off in most parishes. When was the last time you heard a public prayer for them? There are a minuscule amount of Courage groups-and I believe that group exists outside the Church-it isn’t officially sponsored by it. I’ll bet there isn’t one at your parish, there hasn’t ever been one at any parish I’ve attended, and if you ask-it’s like you were asking where they served alcohol in the Prohibition era. Nobody wants to talk about it, afraid someone will think they’re one of “THEM”.

We’re losing our gay brothers and sisters, and we’re losing their families and friends too. And maybe that’s ok with the Church, keeping it pure and all that. I can understand the idea of a smaller group that is more devoted. I understand it, but I still think it’s sad.

 

[Scottmcd]

Regarding the question posed by mkingdomlvr: *"I admit that I’m very concerned about advocating that people try to “change” their orientation-who knows what kind of emotional damage could occur if the person “fails”? *

You might want to read the personal stories of the many Christians who have tried to change their orientation from gay to straight – and have failed – ***with deep emotional and spiritual harm in the process. ***

This link might be helpful: beyondexgay.com/

Neither EXODUS nor NARTH, the two leading “change” organizations, has been able to produce a true “ex-gay” – in spite of over 30 years of trying. They (“ex-gays”) may have made major life changes, may not be acting on their attractions, and they may be happier, but they all admit that they are all still “SSA” – same sex attracted – not straight.

 

[Gertabelle]

I know too many gay people who came from stable loving backgrounds, who don’t use drugs or alcohol and who are in every way but orientation exactly like straight people. I know more heterosexuals with drug, alcohol and relationship issues, to be truthful.

Real life experience with gay people is what has me struggling with these things. I find too many examples where the “truth” isn’t really true in the real world.

Comparing the general morality of gay and straight people is a moot point. Unmarried persons need to remain celibate, and everyone needs to avoid drunkenness and drug abuse.

I, too, have “real life experience with gay people” – but I also have the added experience of having been on the “inside” of the lesbian world. Those lesbians and gay men who came from such stable and loving backgrounds also had secrets in their closets. Without exception, every single lesbian or gay man with whom I became friends (and there were dozens) was trying to escape something through their rejection of male-female relationships.

My relationships were empty and always grasping at being what I really wanted – a husband and children. Although my life was full and meaningful through my career and volunteer work, there was always a longing for a straight relationship, marriage, family. And there was always a long for Christ, and a distance from Him because of my choices.

I wish with all my heart that my experience would’ve given me THE ANSWER for how to change from gay to straight. The turning point for me was the death of my father and two of my dogs – all within a four-week period. This time of mourning was a wake-up call to stop pretending to be what I was not. The journey was messy, and personal, and not reproducible. There’s been marriage, motherhood, a return to the Church, and divorce/annulment.

Genuinely going from gay to straight is absolutely possible. But only God can bring about this change, because only He knows what’s going on in the minds and hearts of His beloved creatures.

In the meanwhile, each and every one of us is called to chastity; and for those who are unmarried, that means remaining celibate.

For those who are gay and are curious about changing, or even longing for change, I can only recommend united your heart with God, regardless of your circumstances or choices. Place your relationship with God above all things, and trust in His absolute love for you.

For those of you who are straight, devout Catholics, I beg of you to love God’s children with compassion, with a willingness to both acknowledge your ignorance and the power of God’s grace in your own life.

Gertie

 

[Gertabelle]

Neither EXODUS nor NARTH, the two leading “change” organizations, has been able to produce a true “ex-gay” – in spite of over 30 years of trying. They (“ex-gays”) may have made major life changes, may not be acting on their attractions, and they may be happier, but they all admit that they are all still “SSA” – same sex attracted – not straight.

Well then, I’m glad I never turned to one of those organizations for help. As for all of us ex-gays still being SSA, that is not at all my experience. Thanks be to God, and much to my own surprise, I have absolutely no SSA, and haven’t since even before my return to the Church. God’s grace is a powerful force

Incidentally, it was my ex-husband who wanted the divorce, not me. And I am actively pursuing the possibility of a relationship and sacramental marriage in the future. Thankfully, attraction to men is very real to me, so much so that I have to work hard at chastity.

Gertie

 

[BobObob]

What are the variables that “cause” heterosexuality?

If sexual orientation can be “caused” by childhood experiences, it would work both ways-right?

Check out “exotic becomes erotic” in the following link:

dbem.ws/Exotic%20Becomes%20Erotic.pdf

It is a theory that provides what I think is a fairly good explanation for the development of the sexual orientation for the vast majority of homosexuals and heterosexuals. It was developed by Dr. Daryl Bem, a psychology professor at Cornell. It is very important in viewing this theory to realize that a person’s perception of what goes on in his life is more important than what really goes on. Thus, someone who seemingly develops like any other child could have a different perception. This theory does a pretty good job of explaining why I had become a homosexual (in orientation, but not practice).

When I read these things it sounds like a guidebook for parents who want to know that they are doing everything “right” so their child doesn’t end up gay. What happens when they do everything “right” and they get a gay kid anyway? Ship 'em off to the “re-orientation camp”?

Even if parents raise their kids the same way, the kid’s perceptions and temperament, which is biologically influenced and changes one’s perception, will often change how those kids respond to that same parenting.

In general, I don’t think that certain parenting will always cause the same child development. Children of neglectful parents can become good people, but are less likely to do so. Children of good, loving parents can develop with many problems, although they are less likely.

 

[BobObob]

Easy if you’re straight and you have some hope of having sex at some point before you die.

Gay people are forced into the same celibate lives as Priests, Sisters, Monks and Nuns-but without the evaluation that individuals that choose those lifestyles go through. Have you known anyone who has entered an order? The process is intense, chiefly because the Church knows the difficulties that a lifetime of celibacy brings. The Church knows that not everyone is called to that existence, yet it is demanded of gay people. And at the same time, those gay people are completely cut off in most parishes. When was the last time you heard a public prayer for them? There are a minuscule amount of Courage groups-and I believe that group exists outside the Church-it isn’t officially sponsored by it. I’ll bet there isn’t one at your parish, there hasn’t ever been one at any parish I’ve attended, and if you ask-it’s like you were asking where they served alcohol in the Prohibition era. Nobody wants to talk about it, afraid someone will think they’re one of “THEM”.

We’re losing our gay brothers and sisters, and we’re losing their families and friends too. And maybe that’s ok with the Church, keeping it pure and all that. I can understand the idea of a smaller group that is more devoted. I understand it, but I still think it’s sad.

Celibacy can be very hard for many people. It is harder for some than it is for others. However, the Church has consistently held that ANYONE who is not married should be celibate. It is unfortunate that marriage (meaning a contract between 1 man and 1 woman for life) is usually not really an option for most homosexuals.

It is very unfortunate that most homosexuals, who are trying to live celibate lives, are usually socially isolated and disregarded. I think that this is partly due to lack of understanding of homosexuals, and the general shortcomings of many in the area of charity. As a practicing Catholic, I have many shortcomings in regards to charity. Who doesn’t?

I attend a local courage group during the school year. It was started by Fr. John Harvey at the request of Cardinal Terence Cooke, so I think it is Church sponsored. I would highly recommend that any Catholic homosexual or bisexual would check it out. It has been a great help for me.

It is not OK with the Church that homosexuals, whether practicing homosexuality or not, are often turned away from the Church (although that might be OK with some of the imperfect members of the Church). Christ founded the Church that it bring about Christ’s message of love and salvation to all, including homosexuals. However, the Church should not compromise her teachings on morality in order to appeal to homosexuals.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

Celibacy can be very hard for many people. It is harder for some than it is for others. However, the Church has consistently held that ANYONE who is not married should be celibate. It is unfortunate that marriage (meaning a contract between 1 man and 1 woman for life) is usually not really an option for most homosexuals.

It is very unfortunate that most homosexuals, who are trying to live celibate lives, are usually socially isolated and disregarded. I think that this is partly due to lack of understanding of homosexuals, and the general shortcomings of many in the area of charity. As a practicing Catholic, I have many shortcomings in regards to charity. Who doesn’t?

I attend a local courage group during the school year. It was started by Fr. John Harvey at the request of Cardinal Terence Cooke, so I think it is Church sponsored. I would highly recommend that any Catholic homosexual or bisexual would check it out. It has been a great help for me.

It is not OK with the Church that homosexuals, whether practicing homosexuality or not, are often turned away from the Church (although that might be OK with some of the imperfect members of the Church). Christ founded the Church that it bring about Christ’s message of love and salvation to all, including homosexuals. However, the Church should not compromise her teachings on morality in order to appeal to homosexuals.

Take a look at the Courage website sometime and see how few groups there actually are. It’s nice for people who have groups in their area, but those are few and far between. And if the emphasis in that group is as much about trying to “fix” people as what we’ve read here, I can see why some gay people wouldn’t find it appealing.

For those who claim to have been “cured”, I’m not going to doubt your feelings. However, what I do know is that sexual orientation is not black and white. People are not 100% one or the other, there are gradations along the line. As has been previously suggested in this thread, perhaps those who identified as gay and then “became straight” were actually bisexual, and have chosen a side, so to speak to become “normal”. Being part of the majority is easier, I can certainly understand wanting to do that.

If you are straight, and cannot imagine being anything else, realize that there are gay people out there just like you. They’ve been gay as long as you’ve been straight, and they can’t imagine being anything else. Think about the messages that we send to our gay brothers and sisters, and try and put yourself on the receiving end of those messages. Think about people telling you that they’ll pray for you so that you can find release from your straight lifestyle. Think about people telling you that if you just tried, you could turn away from your straight lifestyle. Think about people telling you that your straight lifestyle is going to lead you to drug abuse, alcohol abuse, depression and suicide. Think about people telling you that you’re straight because your parents were abusive or otherwise inadequate, when you know they love you unconditionally.

I understand why my gay friends have left the Catholic Church. It’s sad to me, because I love them for who they are and I want them to stay-but I do understand what drove them away.

 

[ladybri77]

My dear friend .It is not possible to turn straight.you may think you can but ,this is who your are God made us this way for his purpose.If you were to marry ,in my opinion is more of a lie ,yes you may Love you wife.but the latter yrs. you’ll end up hurting her as well as yourself. You can have many friends and someone will be with you.Love yourself no matter who you are.As a gay man myself ,yes i have had many men after my divorce.I was happy just for a while .but the longing for same sex.was so painful.it destoryed my marriage fortunely.my wife and all my family have great support for me.I later gave to Our Heavenly Father my gift to him chastity. I have been Chasted for yrs. and truly happy with my choice.Gays DO not go to hell.nor are they bad. Love is Love .and what a wonderful gift of of showing someone you love ,and the love in return someone gives you.But if you are troubled by you sexuality.and feel it is wrong .become Chaste .it is an awesome choice for God .Please remember it is who you are and God truly loves you.we are his children. Love and Peace my friend God Bless You Edward .Leblanc.Chaste for Christ.and also all people should be Chaste until they marry. Many straight having sex .may think its alright to have sex, No they should be married .I know a Christian women who claims to be.,she doesnt play cards doesnt drink.or smoke cause she is a Christian. but sleeps with her boyfriend .doesnt make sense to me .God Bless her/

It IS possible to be straight. “All things are possible with God”. I’ve heard testimony after testimony of people who develop heterosexual feelings, not because of being “forced” but because they truly want to and trust God to help them through. It doesn’t happen every time, but there are many with these feelings who do remain chaste as we are called to do if we are single. Sometimes it is a cross to bear like Peter had. The Lord gave it to him to keep him humble and dependent on Him. Nothing wrong with that!

I admire your feelings about it and your desire to be heterosexual. Most times if you work through the underlying root causes or wounded emotions and get some resolution, filling up on the love of Jesus who is a man (God), the feelings sometimes go away.

I’ve struggled with the same thing. I am praying for you, Jack. Peace.

 

[ladybri77]

Take a look at the Courage website sometime and see how few groups there actually are. It’s nice for people who have groups in their area, but those are few and far between. And if the emphasis in that group is as much about trying to “fix” people as what we’ve read here, I can see why some gay people wouldn’t find it appealing.

NO WAY, JOSE! Courage is not about “fixing” people. It’s about finding strength from fellow sufferers who love the Lord, coming together and finding strength to stay celibate, and through prayer and support, they feel closer to God, and sometimes the feelings diminish. It’s all about working on the underlyling emotional root causes which sometimes allay the feelings.

Hope all works out for you, brother. Praying.:knight2:

In Christ,
Ladybri

 

[ladybri77]

I understand why my gay friends have left the Catholic Church. It’s sad to me, because I love them for who they are and I want them to stay-but I do understand what drove them away.

People drive people away, not the Catholic church’s teachings. They teach that it is a sin to act out on it, that we are to love those who struggle with it. As it says in scripture, so it is…sin. Sorry, but to approach our brothers and sisters with love and compassion and tell them the truth is truly loving them. If your friends were approached with compassion, they would have never left. The church just tells the truth, my friend, and sometimes the truth is hard to hear. But if we truly care about them, we will tell them.

 

[Gertabelle]

It is very important in viewing this theory to realize that a person’s perception of what goes on in his life is more important than what really goes on.

Landmark Education works with this same premise in all their courses. They call it the vicious circle – something happens, our brains immediately gives meaning to whatever happened, and then we spend the rest of our lives finding “proof” for the meaning our brains gave to a single moment in our lives. I would recommend the Landmark Forum for anyone who wants support in living the life of their dreams, whether that means simply growing in sanctity, or attaining some great achievement (like getting a doctorate )

For those who claim to have been “cured”, I’m not going to doubt your feelings. However, what I do know is that sexual orientation is not black and white. People are not 100% one or the other, there are gradations along the line. As has been previously suggested in this thread, perhaps those who identified as gay and then “became straight” were actually bisexual, and have chosen a side, so to speak to become “normal”. Being part of the majority is easier, I can certainly understand wanting to do that.

Are you kidding me? You think knowing a few gay people makes you some sort of expert? I was in that world, and I defended my being gay with my time, my talent, my voice, my money. I performed at a variety of events in which I used poetry, music, and acting to defend how I would never choose to be lesbian, but I just couldn’t be any other way. I took political action, and put myself in the public eye as one who was 100% gay, and with no desire to change. I spoke of justice, of biology, of having no choice. And I knew myself to be 100% gay, and so did my girlfriends

You, who have never been there, may think you know my life better than I, but that just speaks of ignorance and arrogance. I am not only a devout Catholic; I also have extensive experience in leadership training and development. In other words, I am living my life consiously, wide awake. I know who I was; I know who I am; and I know who I am striving to be through the grace of God.

I was not bisexual. I was not even homosexual. I was heterosexual and living out the beliefs I had about myself, men, women, power, etc…

Feel free to have your own beliefs about the world. But don’t you dare come to a public forum and start telling people that I just don’t know any better about who I was and who I am, as if you have some great psychological insight.

Maybe, just maybe, God is greater than you can imagine. Just something to consider.

Gertie

 

[ladybri77]

trust me my dear Pauline we are born gay. and that is that .oh yes i have lived a happy marriage for eight yrs. ,and have to wonderful adult sons. If you are straight. would you become gay and sleep with women NO. so why do you have the gale to insult my message ,how cruel you sound ,not nice . and please dont judge me any more .i was just explaining to the gentleman.my thoughts .I did not jugde him.ibelieve gays who thinktheycanchance.NOT GOING TO HAPPEN…and they will not be happy in their hearts.to live a straight life. it is a lie ,like i said .and a lie to their spouse . dont you get it my dear . God Bless you.

There is no scientific evidence that has prooven there is a gay gene. If you have a study out there that has proven it, please show me. The AMA has just come out with a statement that they do not know of one also. No one is “born” gay so far seen as nothing has scientifically been proven as of yet. You might have felt that way from when you can remember, but there may be other factors for this. Please be open to other causess and don’t rule out conscious/unconscious environmental messages and other causes for this. I have struggled with this myself and have seen transformations through support, prayer, hard work, and God’s healing. Thank you.

 

[CarlaOLS]

Neither EXODUS nor NARTH, the two leading “change” organizations, has been able to produce a true “ex-gay” – in spite of over 30 years of trying. They (“ex-gays”) may have made major life changes, may not be acting on their attractions, and they may be happier, but they all admit that they are all still “SSA” – same sex attracted – not straight.

R U KIDDING?

Have you ever been to an Exodus conference, swimming with happy long-term ex-gays?

It is a lie plain and simple that they all admit to having SSA. On top of that, those ex-gays who are still in counseling and therapy routinely report that SSA lessens on a continuing basis. One describes his SSA as an occassional minor annoyance, like swatting a fly. He also reports that he can now tell the difference between normal hetrosexual desires and his homo-emotional attractions. So having same sex attraction is NOT the same as wanting sex with the the same-sex. Recognizing the difference, ex-gays learn to satisfy their hom-emotional needs legitimately through healthy bonding and Christian friendship.

The gay activists remind me of the mentality the Nazis had towards the German public - just keep spreading the same misinformation and the masses will eventually believe it.

 

[ladybri77]

Malarky. Every scientific study into “conversion therapy” points to high rates of severe depression and even suicide with microscopic rates of changed behavior and no evidence of a change in sexuality.

Courage does not now nor has it ever claimed to be able to change a person’s sexuality. It only encourages chastity.

Those are the old methods. Nowadays, they simply encourage you to associate homosexual feelings, desires, and emotions with physical pain by inflicting pain whenever you have such thoughts and encourage sexual relations with the opposite sex.

We are NOT talking about CONVERSION THERAPY. We are talking about regular, run of the mill psychology that helps one deal with things that happened to them in the past, hurts, anger, unresolved fear issues, whatever. Conversion therapy seeks to change the individual. I am not a fan of it, but I am a fan of conventional psychotherapy which allows one to deal with hurts from the past so they can live a full and effective life and won’t be held back by relational issues that stem from past hurts living either a chaste and/or a heterosexual life.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

Landmark Education works with this same premise in all their courses. They call it the vicious circle – something happens, our brains immediately gives meaning to whatever happened, and then we spend the rest of our lives finding “proof” for the meaning our brains gave to a single moment in our lives. I would recommend the Landmark Forum for anyone who wants support in living the life of their dreams, whether that means simply growing in sanctity, or attaining some great achievement (like getting a doctorate )

Are you kidding me? You think knowing a few gay people makes you some sort of expert? I was in that world, and I defended my being gay with my time, my talent, my voice, my money. I performed at a variety of events in which I used poetry, music, and acting to defend how I would never choose to be lesbian, but I just couldn’t be any other way. I took political action, and put myself in the public eye as one who was 100% gay, and with no desire to change. I spoke of justice, of biology, of having no choice. And I knew myself to be 100% gay, and so did my girlfriends

You, who have never been there, may think you know my life better than I, but that just speaks of ignorance and arrogance. I am not only a devout Catholic; I also have extensive experience in leadership training and development. In other words, I am living my life consiously, wide awake. I know who I was; I know who I am; and I know who I am striving to be through the grace of God.

I was not bisexual. I was not even homosexual. I was heterosexual and living out the beliefs I had about myself, men, women, power, etc…

Feel free to have your own beliefs about the world. But don’t you dare come to a public forum and start telling people that I just don’t know any better about who I was and who I am, as if you have some great psychological insight.

Maybe, just maybe, God is greater than you can imagine. Just something to consider.

Gertie

I believe I wrote that I do not doubt anyone’s feelings. I’m glad you’ve come to peace in your life-however your SINGLE experience does not mean that what worked for you will work for every other LGBT human being on the planet.

What do you say to the person who has tried all that you have-and it hasn’t worked for them? That God doesn’t love them as much as He loves you because He didn’t “fix” them?