Gays Far More Likely To Engage In Criminal Activities

[David_Paul]

Thekla:

We also don’t have the right to persecute people for their sins.

Who is persecuting gays? I don’t know anyone personally or of nation importance who does. Do you?

There is one whacked out minister with a handful of followers who does harass them. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if he and his gang turned out to be agents provocateurs.

 

[Thekla]

gilliam:

Jesus told the sinners to sin no more. He didn’t tell the sinners, to go out and find more and varied sins to commit because they were persecuted.

When Jesus said that how we treat the least of our brothers should be how we would treat him, he was including the sinners. And we can’t pretend that our own actions don’t influence others.

Jesus told the sinners to sin no more. He also said what would happen if we didn’t follow him. He was very clear on how we should live our own lives and less clear on what we are supposed to do about others who aren’t with the program.

 

[gilliam]

Thekla:

When Jesus said that how we treat the least of our brothers should be how we would treat him, he was including the sinners. And we can’t pretend that our own actions don’t influence others.

Jesus told the sinners to sin no more. He also said what would happen if we didn’t follow him. He was very clear on how we should live our own lives and less clear on what we are supposed to do about others who aren’t with the program.

What I am saying is that their sin does not justify them committing more sin. No matter how sorry you feel for them.

Jesus was very clear on this point. He forgave sinners, then told them to sin no more. He did not forgive them and tell them it was OK to keep on sinning, or branch out to other sinful activities.

 

[Thekla]

gilliam:

What I am saying is that their sin does not justify them committing more sin. No matter how sorry you feel for them.

Jesus was very clear on this point. He forgave sinners, then told them to sin no more. He did not forgive them and tell them it was OK to keep on sinning, or branch out to other sinful activities.

The title of the original thread is “Gays Far More Likely To Engage In Criminal Activities.” To me, the title was an attempt to associate being gay with being a criminal. However, it appears that the criminal behavior is self-destructive behavior. I’m not saying that because someone is gay it’s okay for them to go out and commit other sins. I’m saying that people who feel persecuted often commit self-destructive behavior. It’s a cycle.

 

[gilliam]

Thekla:

The title of the original thread is “Gays Far More Likely To Engage In Criminal Activities.” To me, the title was an attempt to associate being gay with being a criminal. However, it appears that the criminal behavior is self-destructive behavior. I’m not saying that because someone is gay it’s okay for them to go out and commit other sins. I’m saying that people who feel persecuted often commit self-destructive behavior. It’s a cycle.

Most criminal behavior is self-destructive behavior. Most criminal behavior is sinful behavior.

Again, sinning does not give you the right to engage in more sin. All sin is self distructive behavior.

Sinners tend to engage in other types of sin. Since sin is turning your back to God and doing your will rather than His. Once you have turned your back, it is easy to continue to engage in behavior that is of your own will and not what He wants you to do.

People who engage in mortal sin, want what they want, when they want, and really don’t care about others when they sin.

 

[Thekla]

David_Paul:

There is one whacked out minister with a handful of followers who does harass them. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if he and his gang turned out to be agents provocateurs.

Didn’t his daughter just run for office in Kansas?

seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/228401_westboro14.h…

BOISE, Idaho – A Kansas preacher and gay rights foe whose congregation is protesting military funerals around the country said he’s coming to Idaho tomorrow to picket the memorial for an Idaho National Guard soldier killed in Iraq.

…Phelps said the fact that French led an all-American life gives him all the more reason to picket her final public tribute.

“An all-American girl from a society of all-American heretics,” he said.

“Our attitude toward what’s happening with the war is the Lord is punishing this evil nation for abandoning all moral imperatives that are worth a dime,” Phelps said.

 

[Jeffrey]

Uhhhh…no I wouldn’t…well…prolly depends on how they were acting when I approached.

As for the aside…I was gonna remove it about an hour ago…(ok…ok…maybe 30 minutes ago…)… Just hadn’t gotten around to it yet. Altho…IMO I feel it is.

Thekla:

It’s an interesting paradigm; how do you treat people conducting immoral behavior as you would Jesus?

As an aside, would you please consider removing the Islam=Satanism thing?

 

[fix]

Thekla:

The title of the original thread is “Gays Far More Likely To Engage In Criminal Activities.” To me, the title was an attempt to associate being gay with being a criminal. However, it appears that the criminal behavior is self-destructive behavior. I’m not saying that because someone is gay it’s okay for them to go out and commit other sins. I’m saying that people who feel persecuted often commit self-destructive behavior. It’s a cycle.

Funny. “Gays” are not persecuted in this culture. They are celebrated, embraced, copied and accepted. The author of the study is only pointing out the obvious. Those with a disorder tend to do disordered things. No surprise.

 

[Thekla]

Jeffrey

I appreciate it. Thank you.

Thekla

 

[JOHNYJ]

Lets see now, Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ never mentioned Gay people.He did mention people that lead children to sin. In the Gospel of Matthew he said that death was too good for them. The bishops that helped priests molest children, said they didn’t know how wrong it was,geuss they didn’t read that part of the Gospel.

 

[JOHNYJ]

Often Gay people were /are subject to persecution by the police in many parts of the U S A.So in a way they are pushed into minor acts that were/ are illegal.At one ime it was illegal for them to congegate, to dress like women, to own or operate bars to work in govt.,to hang out in public. To this day in many places gays ability to get a fair trial in municipal courts is questionable.

 

[sweetchuck]

JOHNYJ:

Lets see now, Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ never mentioned Gay people.He did mention people that lead children to sin. In the Gospel of Matthew he said that death was too good for them. The bishops that helped priests molest children, said they didn’t know how wrong it was,geuss they didn’t read that part of the Gospel.

True, Jesus never specifically mentioned gays. But he DID mention Sodom.

Lk. 17:26-30: “As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the Son of Man; they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage up to the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. Similarly, as it was in the days of Lot: they were eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, building; on the day when Lot left Sodom, fire and brimstone rained from the sky to destroy them all. So it will be on the day the Son of Man is revealed.”

And we all know why Lot left Sodom before it was destroyed.

Gen. 19:4-5: Before they went to bed, all the townsmen of Sodom, both young and old - all the people to the last man - closed in on the house. They called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to your house tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have intimacies with them.”

I doubt that God considers homosexual relations “natural,” patg, no different than being “left-handed.” Is being a pederast “natural?” What about being a sociopath? Is that “natural?”

To quote Leviticus 18:22:

“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.”

Translation: These things are hateful to God. They are against the natural order.

In fact, that’s the only place in the entire Levitical law that that particular word is used, with regard to sexual immorality in the 18th chapter of Leviticus.

Matt. 5:18: Jesus does address homosexual sex in this way, “Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.”

 

[Lisa_N]

JOHNYJ:

Often Gay people were /are subject to persecution by the police in many parts of the U S A…

Definitely a “WERE” as I have not heard of any such incidents in years. The supposed Mathew Shepherd hate crime turned out to be a drug deal gone bad. If you want to make a point, please back it up with facts.

JOHNYJ:

So in a way they are pushed into minor acts that were/ are illegal…

Such as?

JOHNYJ:

.At one ime it was illegal for them to congegate, .

Really, and congregate to do what?

JOHNYJ:

to dress like women,.

Somehow I have a really hard time imagining any police department checking out dress wearers for proper genitalia.

JOHNYJ:

to own or operate bars.

Really? There is a question on a liquor license that asks about your sexual preferences?

JOHNYJ:

to work in govt…

THat might be correct as I understand some government departments did not allow homosexuals.

JOHNYJ:

,to hang out in public. To this day in many places gays ability to get a fair trial in municipal courts is questionable.

Really? So there is a gaydar machine that routinely swoops through crowds identifying homosexuals? And there must be one at the courthouse steps if a homosexual cannot get a fair trial.

Lisa N

 

[JOHNYJ]

I gather you never head of the stonewall Riots.The spark that set off the Gay civil rights movement.
New York city cops enforcing the law against Gays congregating in bars. Raided the stoewall bar and started pushing Gays around and arresting them for congregating.Instead of rolling over and taking it they resisted,big time. for 2 days there were riots in the area.
In big cities tolerance and fair treatment of Gays is pretty usual these days . In smaller cities and towns that is not the case .You cannot go by what liberal controled TV broadcasts as being the way things are, its more there attempt to make things that way.

 

[sweetchuck]

JOHNYJ:

You cannot go by what liberal controled TV broadcasts as being the way things are, its more there attempt to make things that way.

That’s utter nonsense, mere conspiracy-theory mumbo jumbo.

If the media is liberal, and promoting gay rights is a liberal ideal, don’t you think that more reporting would be done on the so-called gay oppression you allege is going on in suburban and rural America? Every gay-related event is top news wherever there is a media outlet. Quite the contrary, the oppression is from the minority and from the media. The gays and the “do-whatever-makes-you-happy” liberals are vociferously imposing their social dogma on the rest of the country, issuing an edict that their lifestyle must be accepted by all. Canada has neared the point of religious persecution, jailing Christians for “hate crimes” when they speak about the evils of homosexual sex. Don’t be disillusioned. The modern family is in the crosshairs. And God’s punishment will come, just as it did on Sodom. Don’t think that God will spare us because we are “the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave.”

Lev. 18:25-28: Because their land has become defiled, I am punishing it for its wickedness, by making it vomit out its inhabitants. You, however, whether natives or resident aliens, must keep my statutes and decrees forbidding all such abominations [see previous verses on sexual sins] by which the previous inhabitants defiled the land; otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it, just as it vomited out the nations before you.

Even ISRAEL was exiled for hundreds of years for their wickedness, and they were God’s chosen people!

 

[Lisa_N]

JOHNYJ:

I gather you never head of the stonewall Riots.The spark that set off the Gay civil rights movement.
New York city cops enforcing the law against Gays congregating in bars. Raided the stoewall bar and started pushing Gays around and arresting them for congregating.Instead of rolling over and taking it they resisted,big time. for 2 days there were riots in the area.

Wrong answer, I know quite a bit about this incident. How many years (decades???) ago was it? Does this really indicate such activities are commonplace today?

JOHNYJ:

New York city cops enforcing the law against Gays congregating in bars. Raided the stoewall bar and started pushing Gays around and arresting them for congregating.Instead of rolling over and taking it they resisted,big time. for 2 days there were riots in the area.
In big cities tolerance and fair treatment of Gays is pretty usual these days . In smaller cities and towns that is not the case .You cannot go by what liberal controled TV broadcasts as being the way things are, its more there attempt to make things that way.

The problem with people who overstate their case or try to morph a decades old incident into current events is that they lose credibility. If you want to make a point about harassment of homosexuals in public you need to provide something a bit more current.

While there might be isolated incidents here and there, the reality is that homosexuals can congregate where and when and with whom they want. Have you not heard of the bathouses that helped to create an AIDS epidemic? Seems like there was all kinds of ‘congregatin’ going on.

Lisa N

 

[JOHNYJ]

Ah Leviticus, It has always been a concept in Law. That one must enforce all laws,not just the ones ,one likes.So I gather you want to install Leviticus again as,the Law! sorta like a judeo/christian version of Shira.Things like back talking your parents is punishable by death ! touching pig skin is punishable by death ! A women is Un clean for a month after child birth.Stuff like that.
The bath houses were also an 70’s & 80’s institution .Most have been closed because of AIDS .
Gays are not accepted in Many parts of this country especialy in the South.Television gives a false impression of their acceptability.Also you will note, their sexual practices are not even simulated on TV .Even the liberals are afraid of going that far.

 

[fix]

In the discussion which followed the publication of the Declaration, however, an overly benign interpretation was given to the homosexual condition itself, some going so far as to call it neutral, or even good. Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.

It is quite true that the Biblical literature owes to the different epochs in which it was written a good deal of its varied patterns of thought and expression (Dei Verbum 12). The Church today addresses the Gospel to a world which differs in many ways from ancient days. But the world in which the New Testament was written was already quite diverse from the situation in which the Sacred Scriptures of the Hebrew People had been written or compiled, for example.

What should be noticed is that, in the presence of such remarkable diversity, there is nevertheless a clear consistency within the Scriptures themselves on the moral issue of homosexual behaviour. The Church’s doctrine regarding this issue is thus based, not on isolated phrases for facile theological argument, but on the solid foundation of a constant Biblical testimony. The community of faith today, in unbroken continuity with the Jewish and Christian communities within which the ancient Scriptures were written, continues to be nourished by those same Scriptures and by the Spirit of Truth whose Word they are. It is likewise essential to recognize that the Scriptures are not properly understood when they are interpreted in a way which contradicts the Church’s living Tradition. To be correct, the interpretation of Scripture must be in substantial accord with that Tradition.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

 

[Lisa_N]

JOHNYJ:

Ah Leviticus, It has always been a concept in Law. That one must enforce all laws,not just the ones ,one likes.So I gather you want to install Leviticus again as,the Law! sorta like a judeo/christian version of Shira.Things like back talking your parents is punishable by death ! touching pig skin is punishable by death ! A women is Un clean for a month after child birth.Stuff like that…

And how in the world do you draw that conclusion? I don’t believe our laws are based on Leviticus are they? Homosexuality is treated throughout the Hebrew Bible and NT as an abomination. It is not simply a sidebar in one chapter of Leviticus. Prohibitions regarding homosexuality are included in among the EARLIEST church writings. This is consistent. The prohibitions regarding using cooking utensils for meat and milk, the prohibitions regarding blended fabrics, etc have not consistently been a part of Church teachings.

JOHNYJ:

The bath houses were also an 70’s & 80’s institution .Most have been closed because of AIDS …

And that is a GOOD thing don’t you think?

JOHNYJ:

Gays are not accepted in Many parts of this country especialy in the South.Television gives a false impression of their acceptability.Also you will note, their sexual practices are not even simulated on TV .Even the liberals are afraid of going that far.

Accepted as what? People? Is there gaydar on every corner so we can point them out and exclude them? As to not simulating sexual acts on TV, I suspect that is coming but frankly I hope not. The idea of this is beyond disgusting. Why do you continually promote acceptance of deviant, unhealthy and by our standards sinful behavior?

Lisa N

 

[sweetchuck]

JOHNYJ:

Ah Leviticus, It has always been a concept in Law. That one must enforce all laws,not just the ones ,one likes.So I gather you want to install Leviticus again as,the Law! sorta like a judeo/christian version of Shira.Things like back talking your parents is punishable by death ! touching pig skin is punishable by death ! A women is Un clean for a month after child birth.Stuff like that.

You demonstrate the unfortunate and all-too-common misunderstanding of the difference between Pentateuch’s moral code and its purity code and Jesus’ teachings on both. And both can be found in Mark 7. Uncleanliness was not a moral condition, it just meant that you were unable to go to the Temple. Unholiness is different, however.

Mk. 7:18-20: He said to them, “Are even you likewise without understanding? Do you not realize that everything that goes into a person from outside cannot defile, since it enters not the heart but the stomach and passes out into the latrine?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.) “But what comes out of a person, that is what defiles.”

Leviticus served its purpose well in the Old Covenant. However, the moral code of Leviticus is not repealed in the New Covenant. (Otherwise, beastiality would be a-OK, too. After all, Jesus never talked about beastiality, this is the same fallacious reasoning given that Jesus approved of homosexuality.) However, Jesus DID say in Mark 7:21-23 that porneiai – sexual sins – are evil (though this is lost in the translation from Greek to English). At the time Jesus said that, all Jews would have known porneiai to mean the list of sexual sins in Leviticus 18-20. Since Jesus explicitly mentions this, this code extends into the New Covenant.