Gays in military: Do allies' experiences matter?

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jerryson said:
And what about the 99% of actual scientific studies that show gays are born that way?
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I would like to see this study also; yes I do believe people are born with homosexual tendencies and by Church teachings are a disorder and a trial I mean who the heck would want to volunteer for this?

99% I’m not going for it man

I also believe the majority of homosexuals today; it is a lifestyle choice I may be wrong but just stuff I’ve seen over the years.

It still does not matter this thread is not about homosexual marriage it’s about should they serve in the military and not be kicked out for just being homosexual—I say no

As I posted before homosexuals can kill the enemy just as good as heterosexuals—after that’s what the military is for—kill the enemy heck you have my back I don’t care who the hell you have sex with I want to go home to my wife.

BTW comparing animals to humans; like my dogs will hump any dog my dogs are not homosexual they just smell; we humans are beyond that.
 
The Church has stated that homosexual acts are disordered. I’m going out on a limb and inferring that means “sinful”. I think that concupiscence is an active part of this and that people choose to do those acts. Once someone has dabbled in it, addictive behaviors come into play and the person who chooses to do these sinful acts becomes enslaved to them. To say that people who do homosexual acts cannot be changed is to deny the transformative effect of Christ’s grace.

As to the military, all of its members are indeed sinners, but I don’t think there’s a place for people who self-identify by their sin of choice. Unity and cohesiveness would certainly suffer. As to the experience of other country’s forces with homosexual soldiers, I don’t think there’s very much we want to emulate in them (face it, they’re mostly pathetic). As to homosexuals being capable of being proficient killers, I have no doubt. But that is not what makes for an effective military unit. Lots of terrible armies abound with blood-thirsty murderers, but they couldn’t win a war against the well-disciplined and professionally-led US troops. Why would we want to become less effective?

I will now put on my asbestos gear to prepare for the inevitable uncharitable barrage.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
The notion that the United States is God’s chosen, doesn’t appear in Catholic beliefs, but derives in great part from Calvinist theology in its belief in the “Elect.” Manifest destiny is the secular form of this theology.
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I was just looking at the results of America’s advent. At that time, 90% or more of the world’s governments were monarchical or despotic. Now, 90% of the world’s governments are some form of elected government. America’s revolution plays a direct impact on that change, imho.

I also think that when it comes to social justice (human rights) and human dignity (Catholic teaching), the world has more to learn from us, than we have to learn from the world’s same old abuse of humanity.
 
Cactus said:
As to the experience of other country’s forces with homosexual soldiers, I don’t think there’s very much we want to emulate in them (face it, they’re mostly pathetic).?
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I have to disagree the Australian, Canadian, and United Kingdom militaries are professional and equal to ours.
 
stanmaxkolbe said:
I have to disagree the Australian, Canadian, and United Kingdom militaries are professional and equal to ours.
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OK, I must admit that these particular forces have, by and large, performed admirably. I was thinking of these UN forces that seem to be worse than useless.
 
Cactus said:
OK, I must admit that these particular forces have, by and large, performed admirably. I was thinking of these UN forces that seem to be worse than useless.
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Cactus, I am impressed!! I’ve seen so many posters here, both Catholic and non-Catholic, hold onto an idea like a dog holds onto one of those rope things, pulling on it and growling, with no possibility of letting go.

Thank you for your clarification and admission. 🙂
 
bbarrick8383 said:
We have witnessed sexual cannibalism amongst the animal kingdom as well. Please let me know when we start justifying the murder/consumption of the human male by the human female because the animal kingdom does it too.
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So according to bbarrick8383, being a homosexual is equal to cannibalism

stay classy, bbarrick8383
 
For anyone here still opposed to gays in the military, I will repeat the following yet again and would like to hear your answer:
jerryson said:
Everybody here and in this whole debate seems to miss the obvious point: Gay people pay federal taxes, taxes fund the military, hence the military is a tax payer funded institution. If gay people pay taxes for the military, then they have every right to join it. Now, if you believe so strongly that gay people should not join the military, then at least be consistent and demand that gay people be exempt from paying military taxes then.
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jerryson said:
So according to bbarrick8383, being a homosexual is equal to cannibalism

stay classy, bbarrick8383
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No according to bbarrick8383 we do not justify our actions by pointing at animals actions and saying that it is ok.

Boy, your on a roll today. Keep throwing them up so I can hit them out of the park on you. It’s ok, once the frustration goes away the embarrassment will kick in. Maybe at that point you will post things that make sense.
 
jerryson said:
For anyone here still opposed to gays in the military, I will repeat the following yet again and would like to hear your answer:
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I’m opposed to homosexuality being an acceptable open action in society.

That being said, and being former military myself. I have to admit that it should totally be up to the military and not some politician, judge or bureaucrat on this type of decision.

If it were me, I’d leave it up to the commanders and their subordinates to decide. There are certainly roles in the military homosexuals could fill that would not cause any problems whatsoever. But if I’m not mistaken our special forces are overwhelmingly opposed to serving alongside gays. And that is completely understandable.

As for making them exempt from paying military taxes(whatever that is), that is ridiculous. There are many, many people who are denied entry into the military for various reasons. They should not all be exempt from paying taxes because of it.
 
bbarrick8383 said:
I’m opposed to homosexuality being an acceptable open action in society.
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What does that mean?
bbarrick8383 said:
That being said, and being former military myself. I have to admit that it should totally be up to the military and not some politician, judge or bureaucrat on this type of decision.
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The military is a branch of government and hence is a servant of the people and our elected officials
bbarrick8383 said:
As for making them exempt from paying military taxes(whatever that is), that is ridiculous. There are many, many people who are denied entry into the military for various reasons. They should not all be exempt from paying taxes because of it.
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Yeah those people are denied because of things like physical handicaps, being gay doesn’t exactly affect soldier performance!
 
bbarrick8383 said:
No according to bbarrick8383 we do not justify our actions by pointing at animals actions and saying that it is ok.

Boy, your on a roll today. Keep throwing them up so I can hit them out of the park on you. It’s ok, once the frustration goes away the embarrassment will kick in. Maybe at that point you will post things that make sense.
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I was claiming that Homosexuality has a biological cause, showed proof that humans and animals shared this, and then cannibalism was then thrown in the mix by bbarrick8383 and equated with it, and now you are saying the complete opposite despite the fact we can all read clear as day what he just said? Good job, genius http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-downsbravo.gif
 
jerryson said:
I was claiming that Homosexuality has a biological cause, showed proof that humans and animals shared this, and then cannibalism was then thrown in the mix by bbarrick8383 and equated with it, and now you are saying the complete opposite despite the fact we can all read clear as day what he just said? Good job, genius http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-downsbravo.gif
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I never equated it, I said we can not look at animals as a justification for something we know is wrong.

I’m done with you, you are a waste of time. Have a happy thanksgiving.
 
bbarrick8383 said:
I never equated it, I said we can not look at animals as a justification for something we know is wrong.

I’m done with you, you are a waste of time. Have a happy thanksgiving.
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bbarrick8383 said:
We have witnessed sexual cannibalism amongst the animal kingdom as well. Please let me know when we start justifying the murder/consumption of the human male by the human female because the animal kingdom does it too.
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Oh I see so people can just lie about my posts and I gotta take it like a whipping boy? Sorry but when I get cornered I bite back, so stand back if you can’t take the heat
 
jerryson said:
Oh I see so people can just lie about my posts and I gotta take it like a whipping boy? Sorry but when I get cornered I bite back, so stand back if you can’t take the heat
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Uhh, one last point there whipping boy.

You accused everyone of being racist sheep.

Buh Bye.
 
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