I’m glad you believe it… but that doesn’t make it true.I believe that only people that never served in the military voted yes in this poll . I am interested if there is a active or former military person who voted yes and why?
They can still say it, but that wouldn’t make it true.…
Furthermore… does it even matter? I mean, does it honestly matter? Someone that has not served in the military can still say if something would be a good or a bad idea.
Yeah… so… I’m not totally sure if you agreed with me or not.They can still say it, but that wouldn’t make it true.
The fact is that if there was a draft, this issue wouldn’t be given the time of day. When there was a draft, the same people who now push for homosexuals in the military were rioting in the streets for its abolition. Well, they got their wish, but it wasn’t enough because the military got along without a draft.
Since the liberal goal is to cripple America [they know that the country with the more powerful military will prevail, whether or not it is actually deployed in combat], they must push for something else that is sure to weaken America’s military strength.
Yes, being a part of the military does make a difference on the perspective. Work for the military is not a 9-5 job. Work, in fact is not just a job, it dictates your life. You give up your freedom for the sake of the country. You do not determine where you will live tomorrow. You can not simply “quit” if you don’t like your job. Each contract is submitting yourself completely for the use of the country. It is ironic how close organization of the military community is to socialism. Yet, the fact that it is a volunteer military makes all the difference. Life in the military is incredibly different from civilian life, and it needs be due to the nature of the work. It is much more different than many people realize.Furthermore… does it even matter? I mean, does it honestly matter? Someone that has not served in the military can still say if something would be a good or a bad idea.
You are right you can say whether or not it is a good or bad idea, but you would be saying it from an UNINFORMED and INEXPERIENCED position. You do not know what it is like to be in the military. I do not know the environment that the politicans want to change to get more votes. Thus you do not know how that environment is going to be effected by the change.I’m glad you believe it… but that doesn’t make it true.
Furthermore… does it even matter? I mean, does it honestly matter? Someone that has not served in the military can still say if something would be a good or a bad idea.
This is what southern whites said about the northern opposition to slavery: “You don’t know us, you don’t know our economy, you don’t know blacks.”You are right you can say whether or not it is a good or bad idea, but you would be saying it from an UNINFORMED and INEXPERIENCED position. You do not know what it is like to be in the military. I do not know the environment that the politicans want to change to get more votes. Thus you do not know how that environment is going to be effected by the change.
May I say, then, that because I have never been pregnant, and can never become pregnant (I am a guy) that my opinion is off in regards to abortion? The assumption made earlier was that, because someone was not in the military, they would vote yes. Whereas someone that was in the military would vote no.Yes, being a part of the military does make a difference on the perspective. Work for the military is not a 9-5 job. Work, in fact is not just a job, it dictates your life. You give up your freedom for the sake of the country. You do not determine where you will live tomorrow. You can not simply “quit” if you don’t like your job. Each contract is submitting yourself completely for the use of the country. It is ironic how close organization of the military community is to socialism. Yet, the fact that it is a volunteer military makes all the difference. Life in the military is incredibly different from civilian life, and it needs be due to the nature of the work. It is much more different than many people realize.
I agree with ERose, I would like to know what those who are in the military think. The study that will be coming out in Dec will be very interesting. I think that Pelosi and her cohorts reveal the truth in their political agenda by pushing the repeal through without waiting for the results of the study. If they actually cared about the military, they would consider all the factors and evidence rather than taking the “holier than thou” approach and claiming they are the sole determinant of what is right and wrong.
Most of us have showered with gays repeatedly over our lives. They have been among us in every profession for all time. They were with us on early overnights. They were with us on our sports teams. They were with us on camping trips. They have been with us in our schools, and now in our places of employment. Gays have already been serving in our military for 100s of years. They have fought and died for our country, and for me and for my children. Gays have functioned within our groups and in all similar situations for millenia. To think that soldiers cannot function properly next to a gay comrade is fly in the face of the experience of all the rest of us and of military history.I said no, mainly because I’m thinking of the OTHER soldiers. As a man, I would find it awkward to do things such as shower with a women in the same room, simply because there is the good possibility that one or both of us would find the other attractive (in more of a lustful way).
In the same way, I would hate to shower in the same room as a homosexual man because he might find me attractive. I don’t want people looking at my body in that way. Other people would be forced into that situation if don’t ask, don’t tell was revoked. There are many other technical issues, like this one, that would have to be worked out (and I don’t see them being able to be worked out).
You missed the point. The fact is KNOWING that the person might find arosal from seeing you in a location, like a shower, that is the problem. It wouldn’t make me uncomfortable to shower in front of a group of guys… UNLESS I knew that one of them was gay.Most of us have showered with gays repeatedly over our lives. They have been among us in every profession for all time. They were with us on early overnights. They were with us on our sports teams. They were with us on camping trips. They have been with us in our schools, and now in our places of employment. Gays have already been serving in our military for 100s of years. They have fought and died for our country, and for me and for my children. Gays have functioned within our groups and in all similar situations for millenia. To think that soldiers cannot function properly next to a gay comrade is fly in the face of the experience of all the rest of us and of military history.
Unless someone wants to argue that gays have not been among us in the past.
I agree with you to a certain point. I personnally am not arguing that gays should not be allowed in the military but they should be silent about it. Let me put it this way. If you are in a community shower with those of your same sex you are for the most part do not think about it. But let us say one or two of the people that you share a community shower with confesses that he or she is gay. How would that effect the community shower experience? Would you feel comfortable taking a shower at the same time as that person? Would he or she feel comfortable taking a shower with the rest of the group knowing that the rest of the group knows? In my opinion it would be the same as putting a man in with a group of all women or a woman in with a group of all men.Most of us have showered with gays repeatedly over our lives. They have been among us in every profession for all time. They were with us on early overnights. They were with us on our sports teams. They were with us on camping trips. They have been with us in our schools, and now in our places of employment. Gays have already been serving in our military for 100s of years. They have fought and died for our country, and for me and for my children. Gays have functioned within our groups and in all similar situations for millenia. To think that soldiers cannot function properly next to a gay comrade is fly in the face of the experience of all the rest of us and of military history.
Unless someone wants to argue that gays have not been among us in the past.
Active duty military are allowed to publicly protest - just not in uniform.Active duty military are also not allowed to publicly protest. This is rather large amount of our population which silently serves our country, protecting our freedom of speech. We should at very least respect them enough to actually find out their thoughts on legislation which directly effects their everyday lives.
Thanking you for expressing what I was trying to say in a clearer manner.I agree with you to a certain point. I personnally am not arguing that gays should not be allowed in the military but they should be silent about it. Let me put it this way. If you are in a community shower with those of your same sex you are for the most part do not think about it. But let us say one or two of the people that you share a community shower with confesses that he or she is gay. How would that effect the community shower experience? Would you feel comfortable taking a shower at the same time as that person? Would he or she feel comfortable taking a shower with the rest of the group knowing that the rest of the group knows? In my opinion it would be the same as putting a man in with a group of all women or a woman in with a group of all men.
I voted yes, and served in the US Navy for 10 years.I believe that only people that never served in the military voted yes in this poll . I am interested if there is a active or former military person who voted yes and why?
You didn’t give me a why?I voted yes, and served in the US Navy for 10 years.
Of course homosexuals have been among us in the past, and if you want to use history as a precedent, see my post #269.… To think that soldiers cannot function properly next to a gay comrade is fly in the face of the experience of all the rest of us and of military history.
Unless someone wants to argue that gays have not been among us in the past.
Is comfortableness in a shower the criteria for military policy? It would be pretty low on my list.I agree with you to a certain point. I personnally am not arguing that gays should not be allowed in the military but they should be silent about it. Let me put it this way. If you are in a community shower with those of your same sex you are for the most part do not think about it. But let us say one or two of the people that you share a community shower with confesses that he or she is gay. How would that effect the community shower experience? Would you feel comfortable taking a shower at the same time as that person? Would he or she feel comfortable taking a shower with the rest of the group knowing that the rest of the group knows? In my opinion it would be the same as putting a man in with a group of all women or a woman in with a group of all men.
What? I don’t understand your question.Of course homosexuals have been among us in the past, and if you want to use history as a precedent, see my post #269.
And in your spare time, you can tell us why a military obligation was “involuntary servitude” to liberals in the Vietnam era, but a “right” to them today.
What is your point? All this is, is a quote. It is usually helpful to add a bit of your own reason for citing it.From “The Writings of George Washington From The Original Manuscript Sources, 1745-1799;” John C. Fitzpatrick, Editor:
“Head Quarters, V. Forge, Saturday, March 14, 1778: At a General Court Martial whereof Colo. Tupper was President (10th March 1778) Lieutt. Enslin of Colo. Malcom’s Regiment tried for attempting to commit sodomy, with John Monhort a soldier; Secondly, For Perjury in swearing to false Accounts, found guilty of the charges exhibited against him, being breaches of 5th. Article 18th. Section of the Articles of War and do sentence him to be dismiss’d the service with Infamy. His Excellency the Commander in Chief approves the sentence and with Abhorrence and Detestation of such Infamous Crimes orders Lieutt. Enslin to be drummed out of Camp tomorrow morning by all the Drummers and Fifers in the Army never to return; The Drummers and Fifers to attend on the Grand Parade at Guard mounting for that Purpose” [emphasis in the original].
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