Gays In The Military

[Sailor_Kenshin]

“It is not merely that good old words like ‘gay’ have been stolen to further an agenda, but twisted new words like ‘homophobia’ have been summoned to villainize the normal… it has been so obvious, so basic, even so biological, that it has not ever have had to be defended.”

– excerpt from a Gilbert Magazine editorial, V 13 #4

 

[HauntedJame]

“It is not merely that good old words like ‘gay’ have been stolen to further an agenda, but twisted new words like ‘homophobia’ have been summoned to villainize the normal… it has been so obvious, so basic, even so biological, that it has not ever have had to be defended.”

– excerpt from a Gilbert Magazine editorial, V 13 #4

Gay is an abbriviation of Good As You, not referring to gay as in happy. That is what has been attributed to the word since people forgot the original meaning of it. I prefer homosexual…sums it up.

‘Villainize the normal’…that is just hilarious.

 

[BobObob]

The military aught to punish any sexual behavior or public advertising of sexuality that causes problems, regardless of homosexual or heterosexual.

Individuals should be able to discuss their sexuality with others in the military so long as it is done in a way unlikely to cause problems. Conditionally allowing this isn’t condoning homosexuality or fornication.

 

[larkin31]

The military aught to punish any sexual behavior or public advertising of sexuality that causes problems, regardless of homosexual or heterosexual.

Individuals should be able to discuss their sexuality with others in the military so long as it is done in a way unlikely to cause problems. Conditionally allowing this isn’t condoning homosexuality or fornication.

Agreed. And fair.

 

[zdon011]

Are you kidding? Service men and women don’t divorce and remarry? None of them say, “My form of sex with my wife is none of the government’s damn business”? None say, “Anti-sodomy laws had better not apply to the private relations between husband and wife”? None of them say, “I appreciate that free-speech protects my right to view pornography free of criminal punishment”?

And the rest of hetero society? And what some of them argue for? Did you really think about this claim?

Your argument is double-edged.

I think the heterosexual sins you refer to are just as immoral as homosexuality. But that doesn’t mean the military should admit those who are open about their homosexual lifestyle.

 

[zdon011]

Maria, I found your message very confusing.

Letter to all those scared to allow “queers” in the military because of our sexuality:

I only date heterosexual men and most of the men I’ve dated were in the military.

Why, then, do you refer in the first-person to those who engage in homosexual acts? (i.e. 'any heterosexual who thinks we are a threat…We aren’t a bunch of scary perverts.) Are you an activist/advocate for such persons?

Every single person has a right to fight for their own country, no matter what anyone says. The United States is my country, it is one of the best countries on earth and I would be proud to fight for it.

Yes, patriotism is wonderful. But not ‘every single person’ is allowed to fight for their country. Some are disqualified from joining the army based on physicial/psychological unfitness, or based on their personal background.

On a lighter note, are you a Kiwi expat’? I’m in Auckland, so I found your address (‘New Zealand (I wish)’) intriguing.

Regards, Michael

 

[HauntedJame]

Your argument is double-edged.

I think the heterosexual sins you refer to are just as immoral as homosexuality. But that doesn’t mean the military should admit those who are open about their homosexual lifestyle.

Why? How could they possibly be worse than the things that some heterosexuals do?

Let the homosexuals serve their country and be openly recognised. Because in the end, they might die for their country. It isn’t about religion, but about what is right for another human being.

 

[ERose]

Sexually, I can’t function with a woman. So yes, I suppose that the only way I can have sex is with another man.

That is not what I asked. I didn’t ask you if the only way for you to have sex is with another man. I asked you do you have a choice in having sex or not?

 

[ERose]

But obese people can’t perform to the standards of the military, color-blind people should be allowed to do their bit for their country in my eyes (let’s just not let them disarm bombs…wrong wire and all that), handicapped people should be able to do their bit as well, since the military does end up leaving a lot of people in that position, pregnant women can do the duties, but bootcamp would be too hard for the child, minors do not always know their minds and seniors can’t go up to the physical standard required in the military.

However, homosexuals can do things just as well as heterosexuals. So really, that argument falls through.

Now, you said about the rights of the others. The majority of them do not object to homosexuals in the military. But we can’t chose who we serve with in that sense. Able bodied men and women ready to serve their country should be allowed to serve and be open about who they are and their background.

Again, serving in the military is not your or anyone else’s right. The military can choose anyone it wants that fits its idea of a soldier. Every one of those I pointed out have just as much of a legitimate argument as you do, but are not allowed. Also homosexuals are allowed to serve are they not? Unlike these other “minorities” I pointed out.

 

[larkin31]

Your argument is double-edged.

I think the heterosexual sins you refer to are just as immoral as homosexuality. But that doesn’t mean the military should admit those who are open about their homosexual lifestyle.

It means that this justification is hypocrisy.

 

[larkin31]

Again, serving in the military is not your or anyone else’s right. The military can choose anyone it wants that fits its idea of a soldier.

No, it can’t. Certain laws govern the process. The military is not as free as you suggest, and is subject to legal Congressional and Presidential oversight.

 

[zdon011]

Why? How could they possibly be worse than the things that some heterosexuals do?

Let the homosexuals serve their country and be openly recognised. Because in the end, they might die for their country. It isn’t about religion, but about what is right for another human being.

Notice that I was careful not to say that homosexuality was ‘worse’ than other sexual sins.

No one has a ‘right’ to serve in the military. First, they must qualify. Then they must make sacrifices in obedience to the military authority/rules.

If you wish to make this an argument about ‘equality’ between those who are inclined to hetero- and homosexuality, then say so.

 

[zdon011]

It means that this justification is hypocrisy.

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘this justification’. Please clarify.

 

[John_Pascendi]

Do you actually think that gay men are interested in straight men and cannot function professionally next to them in a bathroom or a shower without becoming lustful and/or inappropriate?

Each time a straight guy writes something like this (“I want my jollies in the latrine too!”), I just shake my head cuz it speaks to hetero problems with control more than gays’. Do you think that you would actually be turned on by being in a bathroom with a bunch of other women? What if, all you life, you had grown up having to do this (as gay men and women do)? Do you think that they just become lustful every time they enter a men’s room in a restaurant or shower room in a gym? Do you actually KNOW any gays?

…yes as a life long bodybuilder,a teacher in communications and a degree in human behavior…I have been hit on for years by these guys.As we say at the gym…stare at someone more then 10 seconds its for a date or a fight!.I hae also found its an enviornmental thing…the daddy was mean and took off etc.so the little boy was left with his mommy to change his diaper,feed him and care for him…later he goes to K thru 8th and again just as women…no wonder when he hits 12 and his hungers grow,he just cant make it with a gal for his mommies image gets in the way…and this is understandable…who can make it with him mom? Frankly I dont care if two guys go at it instead of a guy and gal…in my village the traffic lights have been changed in a bad way so that there is always traffic shooting past the lights and me constantly…I am more worried about making it to the other side then the above. But as in changing the deft.of the word person to include abortion,what will happen soon with the ole domino affect…can a lady get married to her plant which she loves or a guy to his pet poodle.and of course the mormons are back trying to have more then one wife at a time…never could figure that one out…all those nylon stockings hanging in the bathroom…cheech…

 

[zdon011]

However, homosexuals can do things just as well as heterosexuals. So really, that argument falls through.

This is begging the question. You make a bald, very generalized assertion. If you’re going to dignify the statement you refute with the title of ‘argument’, you should at least provide a premise with empirical evidence to back up your conclusion (that ‘homosexuals can do things just as well as heterosexuals’).

Able bodied men and women ready to serve their country should be allowed to serve and be open about who they are and their background.

You know as well as I that being ‘able-bodied’ is a necessary but not sufficient criterion for enlistment. Any army worthy of that name has a right to dictate rules and criteria for those who wish to serve. Those who cannot accept that need not apply.

 

[larkin31]

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘this justification’. Please clarify.

That to avoid the tacit support of the sin of homosexuality is why the military should deny gays open status. Other sins are openly tolerated among servicemen and women and they are admitted. Divorced men can join (divorce is a sin). Etc.

 

[larkin31]

…yes as a life long bodybuilder,a teacher in communications and a degree in human behavior…I have been hit on for years by these guys.As we say at the gym…stare at someone more then 10 seconds its for a date or a fight!.I hae also found its an enviornmental thing…the daddy was mean and took off etc.so the little boy was left with his mommy to change his diaper,feed him and care for him…later he goes to K thru 8th and again just as women…no wonder when he hits 12 and his hungers grow,he just cant make it with a gal for his mommies image gets in the way…and this is understandable…who can make it with him mom? Frankly I dont care if two guys go at it instead of a guy and gal…in my village the traffic lights have been changed in a bad way so that there is always traffic shooting past the lights and me constantly…I am more worried about making it to the other side then the above. But as in changing the deft.of the word person to include abortion,what will happen soon with the ole domino affect…can a lady get married to her plant which she loves or a guy to his pet poodle.and of course the mormons are back trying to have more then one wife at a time…never could figure that one out…all those nylon stockings hanging in the bathroom…cheech…

Well, for some reason they are reading you as gay. Gays don’t hit on heteros, the same way that you don’t hit on gays.

The rest of this is not worth responding to.

 

[MariaTS]

Isn’t that kind of silly to say that men you date as a “queer” are heterosexual? They would be at least bi-sexual and because if they were sexually attracted to you would mean that they experience some form of same sex attraction or am I missing something.

The last thing is that this minority that you are talking about are your spokesmen and they are the ones that are going out there showing us what being “queer” is about. If you don’t want the majority to think of you that way maybe it is time for you to start policing yourselves don’t you think?

Yes, you certainly are missing something. I’m bisexual and I am open about my sexuality, I just prefer to be with men. Also, there is no way that a homosexual man would be attracted to me and most men in the military are heterosexual. Second of all, I would never date anyone who supported pre-marital sex, that is just wrong. I’m a virgin, if all these “normal” people want to think otherwise than that is their problem not mine. I don’t have any inclinations to flaunt my sexuality, I believe it is simply quite pointless. That’s what being “queer” is about, it’s about love, not non-stop sexual promiscuity.

 

[MariaTS]

Maria, I found your message very confusing.

Why, then, do you refer in the first-person to those who engage in homosexual acts? (i.e. 'any heterosexual who thinks we are a threat…We aren’t a bunch of scary perverts.) Are you an activist/advocate for such persons?

Yes, patriotism is wonderful. But not ‘every single person’ is allowed to fight for their country. Some are disqualified from joining the army based on physicial/psychological unfitness, or based on their personal background.

On a lighter note, are you a Kiwi expat’? I’m in Auckland, so I found your address (‘New Zealand (I wish)’) intriguing.

Regards, Michael

Just because I am non-heterosexual does not mean that I engage in homosexual acts. In fact, I don’t. Also, I am not an activist, I just want to be able to love a man or woman without being condemned. I advocate equality in all circumstances.

People tell me how physically unfit I am for military service. I am not unfit for military service, sure I can’t serve on the front-lines, but a large portion of military service is behind a computer.

No, I am not an expat. I was born a US citizen and am currently a US citizen. I wish I was in New Zealand because the climate would be better for my health and I would be legally recognized as my true gender.

 

[LeeLeeMoo]

This is utter BS. Anyone who has been through basic training has seen dozens of women throw grenades, all of whom easily threw past the point of putting themselves in danger. Are women as strong and aggressive as men? Of course not. But I’ve never encountered someone who has actually been in the modern military who would feel uncomfortable having a well-trained female with him if attacked. Luckily M16 triggers aren’t that hard to squeeze.

Agreed. Whoever used thar quote has clearly never met my 16 Year old DD, who coud possibly outshine most of the men in our area in combat and logic

As for Gays in the military… I have a child who is bisexual and can have feelings for women just as easily as she can for men. I do not know if i agree with this yet, but I do know that it doesn’t affect her as a person. I think many of the portrayals of gay men as being effiminate, shy, weak, nervous and easily distracted by other men is bulldust.
Just because you chuck 2 people who could POTENTIALLY be romantically interested in eachother together, it doesnt mean they’ll act on it. Just like when boys and girls, or gay men or lesbians or bisexual people are friends. Just because the door is there it doesnt immediately mean you will open it.
This is not a question about whether or not homosexuality is wrong or not, so i wont comment on that. But i will say that discrimination against gay people has gone further than far enough. Far too far in my opinion, especially for people who are supposed to Love thy neighbour. To call someone disordered, to condescend them. And you wonder why the secular world is increasingly wary of Catholicism.

Now, i do believe in faith, morals and following the word of God. I believe if you are offended by homosexuality, that is rather… petty, but your right, and I would not argue against that. But to act superior and holier than thou? I think we should all, every last one of us, have some humility. And remember, Jesus died for all of us, not just the heterosexual ones.

God Bless,
Leeanne.