Gays In The Military

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larkin31 said:
You really did not understand my point. My point was that you were saying that the soldiers ought to set the policy on gays, and I stated that this opinion was directly contrary to the Constitutional powers over the military invested in the Executive office and in Congress. I was stating common knowledge, not telling you to be quiet.
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Thank you for the clarification. The President should take the recommendations of his military leaders under heavy consideration since they understand the military environment and discipline issues far better then he does since our president has never served in the military. Also this issue should not be politicised which it will be and has been. Remember the house has voted to repeal the policy without the recommendations of the military even though someone was a least smart enough to insure that the policy does not take effect until after the report from the military is published. At that time hopefully we will have calmer and more rational people running the legislature.
 
ERose said:
I think it should also be pointed out that serving in the military is not a right but a priviledge.
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This doesn’t matter in “justice.” Other voluntary workplaces are regulated by laws; and, of course, Congress and The President are the top overseers of our military.
 
ERose said:
Thank you for the clarification. The President should take the recommendations of his military leaders under heavy consideration since they understand the military environment and discipline issues far better then he does since our president has never served in the military. Also this issue should not be politicised which it will be and has been. Remember the house has voted to repeal the policy without the recommendations of the military even though someone was a least smart enough to insure that the policy does not take effect until after the report from the military is published. At that time hopefully we will have calmer and more rational people running the legislature.
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The President does do this. ALL of them have every time they have looked in to this–Obama is not thhat they should be permitted but the first. Indeed, my sense is that the discussions are not revealing anything new this time around.

Do you have any REASONING for why you think gays should not be permitted? Or do you think that if they ever reveal that they are gay in any way that they should be discharged?
 
larkin31 said:
The President does do this. ALL of them have every time they have looked in to this–Obama is not thhat they should be permitted but the first. Indeed, my sense is that the discussions are not revealing anything new this time around.

Do you have any REASONING for why you think gays should not be permitted? Or do you think that if they ever reveal that they are gay in any way that they should be discharged?
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I have provided arguments that you have skipped because you did have a proper response. But let us do an experiment. Since you think that it is ok for a homosexual to be placed in an environment with heterosexuals where there is communal showers and open squadbays where very frequently you must expose yourself in either taking a shower or changing clothes. Why don’t you do the following so that you can have a full understanding of what you expecting them to do. You said you had gay men that you work with and I am assuming that you have friends that are gay as well. Talk to them about it first to insure that it is ok and then expose yourself before them. Then ask them if you can take a shower with them as well keeping it purely platonic of course. Come back to us and tell us how it made you feel and that it was a perfectly comfortable moment for you.

As I said before if this is allowed then you might as well make the showers and the squad bays co-ed as well. It is the same thing.
 
ERose said:
I have provided arguments that you have skipped because you did have a proper response. But let us do an experiment. Since you think that it is ok for a homosexual to be placed in an environment with heterosexuals where there is communal showers and open squadbays where very frequently you must expose yourself in either taking a shower or changing clothes. Why don’t you do the following so that you can have a full understanding of what you expecting them to do. You said you had gay men that you work with and I am assuming that you have friends that are gay as well. Talk to them about it first to insure that it is ok and then expose yourself before them. Then ask them if you can take a shower with them as well keeping it purely platonic of course. Come back to us and tell us how it made you feel and that it was a perfectly comfortable moment for you.

As I said before if this is allowed then you might as well make the showers and the squad bays co-ed as well. It is the same thing.
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I change in communal locker rooms all the time (I am a coach and an athlete). Why do I need to do more than that? There are gays in these places; there always have been. Asking me “to expose myself” is asking me to commit a crime, and I find that a bizarre response on this religious forum.

Furthermore, I do not consider the standard “perfectly comfortable” to be a legitimate standard for denying other people justice. No one has a valid right to “perfect” comfortableness as a justification for denying equal treatment to someone else.

If you are going to ask me to perform bizarre sexual acts any further, I think that this thread should be closed.
 
larkin31 said:
I change in communal locker rooms all the time (I am a coach and an athlete). Why do I need to do more than that? There are gays in these places; there always have been. Asking me “to expose myself” is asking me to commit a crime, and I find that a bizarre response on this religious forum.
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So you are saying that you would not do it? But you are willing to have others to be forced into that situation on a daily basis. Very hypocritical of you.

I did not propose that you just jump up there and expose yourself at work. You should set it up with one of you gay friends. Since you are an athlete I am pretty sure that they wouldn’t mind.🙂
larkin31 said:
Furthermore, I do not consider the standard “perfectly comfortable” to be a legitimate standard for denying other people justice. No one has a valid right to “perfect” comfortableness as a justification for denying equal treatment to someone else.

If you are going to ask me to perform bizarre sexual acts any further, I think that this thread should be closed.
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You obviously are not willing to live in an environment that you are uncomfortable in but you want to make the “best of us” live in that environment.

So showering in the same shower with a homosexual is a bizarre sexual act now, so your true colors are coming out.:eek:
 
ERose said:
So you are saying that you would not do it? But you are willing to have others to be forced into that situation on a daily basis. Very hypocritical of you.

I did not propose that you just jump up there and expose yourself at work. You should set it up with one of you gay friends. Since you are an athlete I am pretty sure that they wouldn’t mind.🙂

You obviously are not willing to live in an environment that you are uncomfortable in but you want to make the “best of us” live in that environment.

So showering in the same shower with a homosexual is a bizarre sexual act now, so your true colors are coming out.:eek:
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What “true colors” are you referring to? I sense vague personal smears in your last two posts directed at me. Please desist.

I live in “uncomfortable” environments every day, and so does everyone else. I have no idea what you are referring to.
 
I pointed out the silliness of your argument. From your comments it is obvious that you would prefer to have imposed upon the men & women who serve this country extraordinary living conditions that you yourself are unwilling to impose upon yourself.

I do want to apologise to you if my comments injured you. That was not the intention. The intention was to display a certain hypocrisy that exists concerning this subject.
 
Since Scripture points out that the practice of homosexuality is a grievous sin, the conclusion follows that support or endorsement of homosexual practices is also a grievous sin. St. Paul clearly points this out when he writes, “Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they, who do such things, are worthy of death: and not only they who do them, but they also who consent to them that do them.” Romans 1:32 (Douay Rheims)

Allowing people who practice homosexuality and other grievous sexual disorders to openly serve in the military, teach schools, serve as church officials, etc, conveys a tacit approval of such practices, and in fact encourages such practices, which according to Scripture and Tradition is a sin itself. Jesus didn’t tell the adulterous woman to continue in her life of sin: “Neither will I condemn thee.” He said, “Go, and now sin no more.” John 8:11 (Douay Rheims)

Condemnation of immoral practices is not an option in the Christian Way. It is mandatory. Conversely, forgiveness of the repentant sinner is not an option in the Christian Way. It is mandatory.
 
ERose said:
I pointed out the silliness of your argument. From your comments it is obvious that you would prefer to have imposed upon the men & women who serve this country extraordinary living conditions that you yourself are unwilling to impose upon yourself.

I do want to apologise to you if my comments injured you. That was not the intention. The intention was to display a certain hypocrisy that exists concerning this subject.
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There is no hypocrisy here. I practice exactly as I preach in this matter.

Would you please be more specific so that I can defend myself against this charge of yours?

I was not injured in any way.
 
richardacombs said:
Since Scripture points out that the practice of homosexuality is a grievous sin, the conclusion follows that support or endorsement of homosexual practices is also a grievous sin. St. Paul clearly points this out when he writes, “Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they, who do such things, are worthy of death: and not only they who do them, but they also who consent to them that do them.” Romans 1:32 (Douay Rheims)

Allowing people who practice homosexuality and other grievous sexual disorders to openly serve in the military, teach schools, serve as church officials, etc, conveys a tacit approval of such practices, and in fact encourages such practices, which according to Scripture and Tradition is a sin itself. Jesus didn’t tell the adulterous woman to continue in her life of sin: “Neither will I condemn thee.” He said, “Go, and now sin no more.” John 8:11 (Douay Rheims)
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True. Does the military have a Don’t ask, Don’t Tell policy on adultery or other sins?
 
larkin31 said:
True. Does the military have a Don’t ask, Don’t Tell policy on adultery or other sins?
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Is there truth or isn’t there?

Prior to 1968, more Catholics were living as Catholics, but thanks to Hippies, radical feminists, the legalization of pornography and Adult Bookstortes, the legalization of abortion and the legalization of No-Fault Divorce - the conclusion is clear.

Legalize deviant sexual behavior. Make up an institution and call it marriage. This will be followed by the Polys demanding their rights and the Zoos.

It took 40 years, but that’s what happened. Public Opinion was slowly, gradually engineered in one direction and one direction only - the destruction of legitimate male-female relationships and their sanctity in marriage to be replaced by sex divorced from love being marketed 24/7.

I read some comments about how “heteros have screwed up marriage so why not let the gays have a go”? This is sensible or reasonable?

What has happened is some States forcing people like firemen to participate in gay parades. To fully integrate being Gay into the State function.

No one who commits adultery or fornication should call for their legalization and call himself Catholic at the same time.

God bless,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Is there truth or isn’t there?

No one who commits adultery or fornication should call for their legalization and call himself Catholic at the same time.

God bless,
Ed
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Very true! It is the immoral media that has foisted these beliefs as acceptable on people… a great deal of corruption imbibed from deceitful sources…
 
larkin31 said:
Wait, what does this claim state? Can be be more clear, please?
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Al Kresta, who has a daily show on Catholic Radio, has said that Catholics have suffered amnesia over the last 40 years. They have forgotten their identity. Why? It has been buried under layers and layers of tolerance and acceptance for sin. At first, it was little sins, then a little worse and a little worse. To the point where today, too many Catholics are living as agnostics with only a vague idea of God because they have been brainwashed to believe that everybody “does their own thing, even if it’s sinful.”

It began with, “Nobody can tell me what to do!” To “I want all you people to legalize what I want to do!”

God bless,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Al Kresta, who has a daily show on Catholic Radio, has said that Catholics have suffered amnesia over the last 40 years. They have forgotten their identity. Why? It has been buried under layers and layers of tolerance and acceptance for sin. At first, it was little sins, then a little worse and a little worse. To the point where today, too many Catholics are living as agnostics with only a vague idea of God because they have been brainwashed to believe that everybody “does their own thing, even if it’s sinful.”

It began with, “Nobody can tell me what to do!” To “I want all you people to legalize what I want to do!”

God bless,
Ed
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Interesting.

What do Catholics want to legalize that is not legal now?
 
larkin31 said:
Interesting.

What do Catholics want to legalize that is not legal now?
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Those who want to live outside of Church teaching put same-sex marriage on the ballot. Those who voted against it were automatically accused of hate.

God bless,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Those who want to live outside of Church teaching put same-sex marriage on the ballot. Those who voted against it were automatically accused of hate.

God bless,
Ed
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Catholics put same-sex marriage on the ballot? Where? I find that hard to believe.
 
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