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CindyGia
Guest
The 10 CD series was just delivered to me today. I have it on right now and it is WONDERFUL!
It is sooooo good!
Order it!!:
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It is sooooo good!
Order it!!:
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Strider
Guest
Paragraph 370 is in the “Male and Female He Creted Them,” section and emphasizes the fact that God is “not in man’s image.” The first Biblical reference to that paragraph is Isa 49:14,15. But Zion said, “The Lord has forsaken me, my Lord has forgotten me.” 15"Can a woman forget her suckling child that she should have no compassion on the son of her womb?"
Hardly a strong statement of the feminine aspect of God.
Paragraph 270 states: God is the Father Almighty, whose fatherhood and power shed light on one another: God reveals his fatherly omnipotence by the way he takes care of our needs; by the filial adoption that he gives to us ("I will be a father to you and you shall be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty, 2 Cor 6:18); finally, by his infinite mercy, for he displays his power at its height by freely forgiving sins.
The Scriptural references are Gen 1:1 and Jn 1:3
Jesus’ reference to the hen’s chicks is the only one that comes to mind in which Jesus does not refer to God as “father” or “he” or “him.”
To see why this is a important, read Ungodly Rage by Donna Steichen.
This in no way diminishes the completenesss of God, but if he wants to be called “father,” who are we to change that?
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Orogeny
Guest
So, a deacon stating that God is a spirit and therefore neither male or female is not being “un-orthodox”? In light of the Catechism, does it really matter?
Peace
Tim
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Strider
Guest
Sorry if I wsn’t clear enough. My whole post was referring to the OP and what the nun said about, “whatever you’re comfortabe with,” in referring to God as “Her.”
I highly recommend the Ungodly Rage book to any Catholic who is interested in recent Church history.
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DreadVandal
Guest
Aren’t nuns supposed to be cloistered? Praying? Meditating? Why is it that the majority of the time, it seems to be nuns who are indoctrinating people into heresy?A nun gave a presentation about the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. All well and good till she explained that it’s ok to refer to God as your mother, “whatever you’re more comfortable with.”
Um, no. Jesus didn’t teach us the “Our Father or mother, you know, whatever you’re comfortable with” Also…“Abba” means Father doesn’t it? I really think that it’s disrespectful of our Lord to say something like that. I’m aware that God doesn’t actually have a human gender, but he obviously prefers to be referred to in our human language in the male form.
She also mentioned that the church has done away with the concept of limbo completely and babies that die before they are baptized “obviously” go directly to heaven…while this would be great and all, there is that original sin to deal with…I really don’t think the church has ever made a formal statement on that - has it?
My RCIA teacher raised her eyebrows a couple of times during this, and maybe she would have said something but no one asked any questions so we wrapped up for the night. I know, I should have, but I get so shy speaking on front of people.I think I’ll speak with her privately next session.
Oy. This RCIA deal is turning out to be a real trip.
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DreadVandal
Guest
I think you should just stand up and say “nonsense!!!” “You, madam, are teaching heresy!”
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Todd_Easton
Guest
God as mother? Boy, was I wrong; I thought the passage supported the idea that God was a chicken.
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Celia
Guest
I don’t know what you mean about purgatory…
I don’t think that passage from the catechism says that it’s ok to refer to God as mother. Frankly I think such a thing would be quite disrespectful. God has pretty much deemed (“Our Father”) that he be referred to in the male form of our language and thought of in a fatherly way. For us to decide that we can call him mother, for whatever reason, I don’t really know why, is not something you can just do. Besides, isn’t the church supposed to be like our mother in a way? The bride of Christ and all that? (just a thought. I don’t know if that’s correct.)
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Celia
Guest
See, I think that’s just an expanation of what Christ was trying to say, not really at all a support to referring to our Lord as our mother.
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Celia
Guest
Paris Blues:
I think I know the faith rather well. I’ve been Catholic my whole life. Better than this particular nun, I believe, anyway…on these issues…
Paris…it’s not that easy for me to jump up and interrupt and tell an 80 year old nun that is highly loved and respected in this church that she’s off her rocker. Should I have the courage? Maybe, but I didn’t. I intend to amend the situation with my RCIA teacher as I said. (Plus, I’m sitting there like, "Did she just say what I think she said?? And by the time I realized that I should say something she had already started into something else…not an excuse probably but just saying…)Oh for crying out loud!!!
If you KNOW something is right, please blurt it out!!! Nothing is worse than having a person in RCIA being taught wrong info :banghead:
If you know something, say it!
Just speak up!!! What’s so hard about that?
P.S. It could also be a test to see how well you know the Faith!
I think I know the faith rather well. I’ve been Catholic my whole life. Better than this particular nun, I believe, anyway…on these issues…
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BlindSheep
Guest
That sounds like my experience in RCIA. The teacher told us how she thought Pope JP2 as an “old, celibate man” had no business telling women not to use ABC, have abortions, etc. 
Lots of other baloney too; I’ve repressed the memories. It was one of those “take the class because you have to, but you won’t learn anything worthwhile” type things. It’s a shame, but I guess the bright side is the fact that there are converts in RCIA who actually *are *willing to adhere to Church teachings, which bodes well for the future. Things are going to get better soon in the Church.
Lots of other baloney too; I’ve repressed the memories. It was one of those “take the class because you have to, but you won’t learn anything worthwhile” type things. It’s a shame, but I guess the bright side is the fact that there are converts in RCIA who actually *are *willing to adhere to Church teachings, which bodes well for the future. Things are going to get better soon in the Church.
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Orogeny
Guest
The Church has not abandoned the concept of purgatory, yet that was part of your original post.
No, you are correct, it doesn’t say that it is ok to refer to God as mother. However, it specifically does not forbid using the feminine sense either. The passage makes clear the Church teaches that God is a spirit and neither male or female. Refering to Him as either is not disrespectful.
Please understand that I always refer to God in the masculine sense and don’t care for the use of the feminine when refering to Him. My point is that it is not a heresy or an abomination to refer to God as She.
Peace
Tim
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otm
Guest
some nuns are cloistered, but most orders are not. Some orders are clear as to what their charism is, some are not. The ones which are not seem to have trouble recruiting; those that are clear seem to have less trouble.
some have the charism of teaching; some as missionaries; some as working in hospitals; the list goes on and on.
As to the majority of time, I don’t think there has ever been a study done showing who is teaching error; most seems to be commentary on individuals.
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otm
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Not unless you are much better versed in allowable theological views and thoroughly versed in the doctrines of the Church; you just might find that you have overstated yourself.
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otm
Guest
The Church has not abandoned the concept of purgatory, yet that was part of your original post.
I went back and read the original post; what she referred to was Limbo, not Purgatory. I think Purgatory came up somewhere in the thread, but why I can’t say.
I wouldn’t say that the Church has abandoned the concept of Limbo; but that is a fairly accurate staatement of what it is and was - a concept, not a doctrine (although many were taught, incorrectly, that it was doctrine). It appears that the Church may be backing away somewhat from the concept of Limbo; but it is likely that there will not be a doctrinal statement as to what happen to unbaptized young children who die.
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Elzee
Guest
I can fully understand this. I’ve had this experience several times, where the comment made is so off the wall you hesitate to say anything because you’re thinking, 'surely I didn’t just hear THAT’! And by the time you process this thought and try re-thinking it in your mind that well, yes, maybe that is what was said, and think to ask ‘uh, would you mind repeating that I want to be sure I understood you correctly’ everyone else has moved on to something else. It’s that darned timing thing!
In these cases, we just need to find a way to bring the topic up again, so we can do our part to make sure we help people be catechized properly. If you’re still kicking yourself over this, it’s time to stop!
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Orogeny
Guest
My bad! I’m sorry if I caused any confusion. Maybe I ought to learn to read!
Peace
Tim
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Holland
Guest
Please do not send her to Alaska. We have enough problems as it is.
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TobyLue
Guest
Whenever people start referring to God as a “she” I ask them if they know more than the Pope. I point out to them what then Cardinal Ratzinger said in his book “The Ratzinger report”. Two things:
“.many catechists no longer teach the Catholic faith in its harmonic wholeness-where each truth presupposes and explains the other-rather they try to make some elements of the Christian patrimony humanly ‘interesting’ (according to the cultural orientations of the moment)”(emphasis mine)
and
Thus we have no, absolutely, no right to change the teaching of Jesus Himself. He taught us to pray “Our Father….” Not “Our Mother… nor “Our parent…”, nor “Our whatever you want to imagine God as…” We know, as the CCC teaches, that God is neither male nor female. However, to say that its OK to refer to God as mother or father, is false and should be repudiated.
Can we refer to God as a bird because in DT 32 its using a metaphore of an eagle “as an eagle watching its nest”.
Note that whenever a feminine metaphore of God is used the masculine pronone he/him is used. Never is a feminine pronoun used when describing God.
For a good explanation see this by Mark Brumley “Why God is Father and not Mother”
“.many catechists no longer teach the Catholic faith in its harmonic wholeness-where each truth presupposes and explains the other-rather they try to make some elements of the Christian patrimony humanly ‘interesting’ (according to the cultural orientations of the moment)”(emphasis mine)
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Code:
"Christianity is not a philosophical speculation; it is not a construction of our mind. Christianity is not **'our'** work; it is a Revelation; it is a message that has been consigned to us, and we have no right to reconstruct it as we like or choose. Consequently, we are** not** authorized to change the Our Father into an Our Mother: the symbolism employed by Jesus is irreversible; it is based on the same Man-God relationship he came to reveal to us." (emphasis mine)Can we refer to God as a bird because in DT 32 its using a metaphore of an eagle “as an eagle watching its nest”.
Note that whenever a feminine metaphore of God is used the masculine pronone he/him is used. Never is a feminine pronoun used when describing God.
For a good explanation see this by Mark Brumley “Why God is Father and not Mother”
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trogiah
Guest
Todd Easton:
peace
-Jim
As long as it was a chicken that looked after its chicks. Jesus didn’t find the comparison objectionable. Why should we?God as mother? Boy, was I wrong; I thought the passage supported the idea that God was a chicken.
peace
-Jim
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