- Status
S
sanctamaria17
Guest
I’ve made Dean’s List every semester I’ve worked. I don’t think succeeding academically is an issue for me. I just know how to prioritize.
No, but I have friends who went to community college, then transferred and got these little things called scholarships. And I don’t work full time, yet I still have what I need. Even more, I manage my money and I have money to save. And people work full time during summers.
I’m sorry you think my quality of life is so horrible. My parents gave me a better quality of life than my peers parents who had money. My parents gave me siblings. My parents encouraged my abilities in languages, writing, math, and music. My parents come and visit me at my school and tell me how to get cheap concert tickets. My mom sends me little things when she can, cans of soup, cookies, chocolate, tea, coffee, things she knows I’ll love. And my extended family is involved in my life. My little Italian grandma is the most charming lady you’d ever meet, who always cooks and tells me to eat because my three meals and two snacks means I’m starving and my grandpa is loving, kind and supportive. And my aunts are amazing while my baby cousins are adorable. And both my siblings are funny, bright, and creative. You know, it makes my day to get an email or phone call from my sister about her life? Or my brother giving me a big hug when I come home to visit? And I’m not counting my godparents, my family friends, or my own dear friends who’ve pretty much become my family, but I’ll say that it’s the people who’ve blessed my life more than any internship or class.
What a slap in the face to my father, an immigrant (from Italy, so not a poor place but he himself was poor), who clawed through poverty to raise himself up and give, not just money, but time, attention, and love to the woman he married and the three kids he raised. My mother, who worked and taught me how to work, yet always talked to me and raised me to be a strong woman? And my siblings, who always put me in my place and remind me of what’s important?
It would absolutely shame my family if I forgot where I came from.
Your first paragraph just confirmed everything everyone accuses you of on here.
Not to mention that, within my field, I may have more success helping extend girls’ education in places like Kenya if Kenyans knew that this educated woman still values her family, immediate and extended. Because my culture is similar in that respect. My education and professional success is important, but only because my family gave me the tools to succeed and have proven unconditional love for me.
As for retirement…do you know that elderly people live in poverty because they DIDN’T have retirement? Kids can get scholarships for college but adults cannot for retirement. Social Security isn’t that much money. It isn’t about moving to Florida and living la dolce vita. It’s about not having to choose between groceries and medications. And, if they saved more, if their adult children fell into poverty (maybe they lost their big jobs i a recession), they can help them restore their “quality of life”.
I don’t see the harm in an able bodied 18 year old working to save money for an education he or she wishes to pursue. But that does NOT mean they have a low quality of life. What an elitist statement and an insult to my mother and father who’ve given everything. And we were NOT rich growing up.
F
flyingfish
Guest
It probably depends on where you live. If you get loans and needs based aid, you can make it. But say you have to pay 20k a year just for very basic living expenses and tuition. Without qualifications, to earn 20k you would have to work full time, and maybe even more than 1 job since as a student you likely woudln’t be able to secure anything much better htan minimum wage. I don’t see how someone in this position would even be able to attend class since the job would likely be during the day.
Probably also depends on your program of study and how intense it is, if you’re doing a science program with many labs you might have 30 hours of class a week and then you’d have enough homework to leave you time only for eating and sleeping.
If you get loans and scholarships and only have to make up a few thousand, then you can pull it off.
S
sanctamaria17
Guest
And an 18-year-old can work for those loans and scholarships. There are so many scholarships out there. Not to mention, private loans (which aren’t all bad, if you learn to be financially savvy). Or they can work and save, invest in an interest bearing account. That’s what I do.
I have a friend who did premed, brilliant girl, who worked all through college. Ever since she was 17, she had a job. She said it was weird going to medical school and not having a paid job. Even then, she took out loans. I have other friends who’ve done the same.
To be an adult, you have to be resourceful. Because your parents can’t provide for you forever. You also said that parents should raise their kids to be independent adults. I’d rather teach my kids to find money, to start doing so as an adult, rather than just give it and prolong their childhood.
Also, nothing wrong with getting a degree later, if you’re hardworking and persevering. I find that the older students obtaining their Bachelor’s appreciate it more than the 18-year-olds who come in and have everything covered.
I’m from an expensive state, living in an expensive city, not making much myself and not having grown up in as much affluence as many of my neighbors, but I’m resourceful. Ergo, I make it work.
I have a friend who did premed, brilliant girl, who worked all through college. Ever since she was 17, she had a job. She said it was weird going to medical school and not having a paid job. Even then, she took out loans. I have other friends who’ve done the same.
To be an adult, you have to be resourceful. Because your parents can’t provide for you forever. You also said that parents should raise their kids to be independent adults. I’d rather teach my kids to find money, to start doing so as an adult, rather than just give it and prolong their childhood.
Also, nothing wrong with getting a degree later, if you’re hardworking and persevering. I find that the older students obtaining their Bachelor’s appreciate it more than the 18-year-olds who come in and have everything covered.
I’m from an expensive state, living in an expensive city, not making much myself and not having grown up in as much affluence as many of my neighbors, but I’m resourceful. Ergo, I make it work.
R
rayne89
Guest
I’m not hostile to you. You said that I took a cheap shot. So I went back in your post history to show in your own words that the way post on this forum gives the impression children are not important to you. I never said professional women couldn’t be good mothers. You say -My point is that you don’t have to choose. You can have a career and a family, men have always done this. Do you ever question whether a man is a good father because he works? Do you think your husband is a bad father to his daughter or has a very bad/distant relationship with her because he works?
I personally know professional women with children who are good mothers. You don’t need to be a stay at home mother to raise your children well or to have a good relationship with them.
I don’t know to be honest why you are so hostile to me to the point of finding things I said in other thread and quoting them as evidence of what a terrible person I must be.
You say you could not respect a woman’s choice to raise her children instead of working. You also say a woman doesn’t have to choose between working and raising children, that they can do both.
I want to choose, “well enough” isn’t good enough for me. I don’t want to be a “good enough” parent. I want to be the best parent I can be. This is my vocation. You can’t seem to wrap your head around the fact that bright, intelligent, educated woman may want to stay home with their children. Honest to God if I had to work full time my quality of life would be lower no matter how much money I earned. I don’t base my quality of life on vacations, material things -my quality of life is based on how connected I feel to the people I love. My husband, my daughter, my best friends since we were twelve, my extended family. Faith, family, friends -that is how I judge the quality of my life.
Three years ago I befriended a teenage boy who was suicidal. He has a mom who works two jobs -not because she has to but because she wants to. I became a surrogate mom to him, I spent time and energy with this boy, made him feel part of our family, helped him feel valued, helped him feel that he mattered. Today that boy is a United States Marine and he is doing fabulous. There is no pay check, no degree, no material thing on this earth that could give me more joy or make me feel more proud that seeing this troubled, broken boy grow into a fantastic young man. There is no way I could have had the time to invest in this boy had I been working full time.
People matter, relationships matter. Material things -houses, cars, vacations, fancy clothes -that’s just stuff. Honors, awards, degrees -just plaques on a wall.
I don’t have ill will toward you. I feel sad for you -you’d rather have a free ride to college than a sister. My sister died when she was 21, I’d give up everything I own to have her back.
S
sanctamaria17
Guest
Rayne, is that the same boy you posted about? Congratulations to him! You must be proud!
Seriously, I would not give up my brother and sister for any reason. Nor would I give up my aunts, uncles, cousins, etc…
And I’m glad I had to claw through obstacles to achieve my education. I appreciate it a ton more than the kids who never had to work. I had to learn what sacrifice really was and how far I was willing to go for something. It gave me the chance to be strong and to take charge of my life.
Our culture really has become more selfish and materialistic. How horrible. No wonder there’s poverty. People are greedy.
Seriously, I would not give up my brother and sister for any reason. Nor would I give up my aunts, uncles, cousins, etc…
And I’m glad I had to claw through obstacles to achieve my education. I appreciate it a ton more than the kids who never had to work. I had to learn what sacrifice really was and how far I was willing to go for something. It gave me the chance to be strong and to take charge of my life.
Our culture really has become more selfish and materialistic. How horrible. No wonder there’s poverty. People are greedy.
R
rayne89
Guest
Yes it is. “My” Steven, and I am so proud.:extrahappy: He’ll be home for a visit in a couple weeks and he’ll be leaving for Japan for two years. He has become like a son to me and I thank God everyday for answered prayers.
F
flyingfish
Guest
Work is not about money for me, if you’re doing what you love it’s fun and can make your life worth living. I can understand if you wanted to stay at home if the alternative was a boring and mundane job, but I just can’t understand why someone would want to do domestic chores all day instead of having an enjoyable job.
But I think I understand your point of view, you simply enjoy spending time with your friends and family and developing those relationships more than anything else. I never felt this way, for the most part, aside from boyfriends some of the time, I have always preferred activities to simply being with people.
Between being poor and having siblings and being well off and an only child, without question I would choose the latter. My family was poor at one point during my childhood, and rich later on. No doubt being poor was very bad, and no number of siblings is worth living like that.
W
whatevergirl
Guest
No one here is right or wrong…but I will offer you this flyingfish…the best memories that you will have in your life (think back to some) will be with others you love or care for…they won’t be working or doing activities alone. I think that is so true. I enjoy my work, I make a good living, but it will never replace the days when I was a SAHM taking care of my kids when they were little…it won’t replace the times with my husband, or watching my kids’ ‘‘firsts’’ in life…it’s fine to want to have a career as a woman. I don’t think it’s right for anyone to tell a woman otherwise…but, trust me, I am a wife, mom and employee…and my favorite times in life have been as wife and mom.
But, I will say that I thank God everyday for my job…because I do think this is where He wants me to be right now…
W
whatevergirl
Guest
It’s not pick on flyingfish night, I promise…lol
I just wanted to chime in here with a statistic I read not too long ago that the happiest families, are the poor ones. Especially in third world countries. That blew my mind, I think we have this notion that an abundance of things will somehow provide happiness to our kids. Shoot, we think that we need things to be happy, as adults. But, it just isn’t so. Kids need clothing, shelter, etc…and if my dh and I can provide some nice ‘‘extras’’…hey, that’s great. But, the things won’t be what they remember…they’ll remember the loving times…the times they learned about their faith. They will remember family, and friends. The ipod they got for their birthday won’t be the thing they tell their own kids about their dad and me. That stat was surprising to me.
F
flyingfish
Guest
I guess, but will the memories be good because I was with people or because I was engaged in a fun activity? Would I rather do interesting work alone or with semi-strangers, or cook and clean for kids? I honestly think I would prefer the former.
S
sanctamaria17
Guest
But wealth is fleeting…many learned that they could lose it in a heartbeat.
Frontline did a documentary on how the recession was affecting residents in Upper East Side Manhattan. So many people lost everything. Houses. Cars. Jobs. These were people with Columbia degrees and brilliant careers…moving back in with their parents!! A ritzy hairstylist was afraid of losing her business as so many of her affluent clients could no longer afford to get their hair done.
Or people become sick and treatment is expensive. People have spent their life savings to help a sick child with cancer.
Friends of mine have lost parents. That’s a financial burden, as well as a heavy emotional one. Can you imagine losing your soul mate and then having to be the sole provider of the kids you had? Frightening.
And taking care of kids is not just a bunch of “domestic chores”. You try nurturing young minds to be curious, to teach morality, to try and help little ones learn not just to be independent people, but good people. It’s a hard task and yes, it involves using the brain and yes, some women actually find it fun and enjoyable.
Frontline did a documentary on how the recession was affecting residents in Upper East Side Manhattan. So many people lost everything. Houses. Cars. Jobs. These were people with Columbia degrees and brilliant careers…moving back in with their parents!! A ritzy hairstylist was afraid of losing her business as so many of her affluent clients could no longer afford to get their hair done.
Or people become sick and treatment is expensive. People have spent their life savings to help a sick child with cancer.
Friends of mine have lost parents. That’s a financial burden, as well as a heavy emotional one. Can you imagine losing your soul mate and then having to be the sole provider of the kids you had? Frightening.
And taking care of kids is not just a bunch of “domestic chores”. You try nurturing young minds to be curious, to teach morality, to try and help little ones learn not just to be independent people, but good people. It’s a hard task and yes, it involves using the brain and yes, some women actually find it fun and enjoyable.
F
flyingfish
Guest
Really? In all the happiness studies I’ve seen, Scandinavian countries are on top worldwide. Third world countries are pretty low on the happiness list.It’s not pick on flyingfish night, I promise…lol
I do find it hard to believe, because my family was poor at one point. It was arguably the worst time of my life.
Doesn’t it seem to you that “things” can drastically change the kind of life you lead? I mean, the very fact that I have a good laptop, that I have internet, that I have several hundred channels on TV, that I can get any book or game I want, that if I like I can go to a ski resort, or a tropical vacation, or go to the opera, or say have the music I like on an ipod to carry with me where I go and so on. That changes the kind of life I live. Being poor is boring, being poor means you can’t go anywhere or do anything, it might mean not even having internet and in the third world countries also no electricity, maybe no running water, and a one room house for the entire family.
Add to that that if you’re in that position, you probably have to spend your entire day doing very boring work just to get enough food to eat. Honestly, I don’t even see how that kind of a life is worth living. I would probably seriously be considering suicide if that’s all I had going for me.
W
whatevergirl
Guest
*You know, I grew up in a household, where everything was done for me. I didn’t learn how to cook, clean, etc…when I got married, wow, I was a sight. lol I married a man who loves to cook and is very good at it, and does his fair share of housework, it’s just a ‘whatever needs to get done’ kind of thing between us. Being married and a mother, won’t relegate you to being the sole cook and housecleaner, if those things are truly out of your domain. But, as a SAHM, I found a lot of value in keeping a clean house, teaching my kids to read, seeing their first steps, LEARNING how to cook a nice meal for my hubby. It’s all in perspective. I think as women, we’re fed a lot of different messages out there…we ‘‘need’’ to be a hot shot career woman with ‘‘x’’ amount of degrees to feel fulfilled. If you genuinely want that, I say go for it…but know that when you meet the right man someday, and you decide to have kids…all that you ever thought, might just change. Life is funny like that. God is funny like that.
*
W
whatevergirl
Guest
Well, yes and no. Money can only buy you things. It cannot buy happiness. It cannot buy you into heaven. It cannot buy a relationship with Christ. All else is but ‘‘dung’’ to me, says St Paul. I think that is what we always have to remember, that money can buy things …can make a life a little more convenient or easier…but is that the same thing as happiness and peace? No, it really isn’t. If money could make people happy, we wouldn’t see such a high divorce rate amongst celebs, or soaring drug and alcohol addictions among them. Now lack of money in a family, whether someone loses a job or there just isn’t enough money coming in …CAN AND WILL be a source of stress in a family. But, it’s in those tough times that many families pull together…
C
CountrySinger
Guest
I thought that I would become a independent career woman who didn’t need a man. Now I’m working on my graduate degree so I can do the work I love in case I never get married (teachers have to have a masters’ degree in most states). I don’t want to be stuck in customer service the rest of my life.*You know, I grew up in a household, where everything was done for me. I didn’t learn how to cook, clean, etc…when I got married, wow, I was a sight. lol I married a man who loves to cook and is very good at it, and does his fair share of housework, it’s just a ‘whatever needs to get done’ kind of thing between us. Being married and a mother, won’t relegate you to being the sole cook and housecleaner, if those things are truly out of your domain. But, as a SAHM, I found a lot of value in keeping a clean house, teaching my kids to read, seeing their first steps, LEARNING how to cook a nice meal for my hubby. It’s all in perspective. I think as women, we’re fed a lot of different messages out there…we ‘‘need’’ to be a hot shot career woman with ‘‘x’’ amount of degrees to feel fulfilled. If you genuinely want that, I say go for it…but know that when you meet the right man someday, and you decide to have kids…all that you ever thought, might just change. Life is funny like that. God is funny like that.
But IF I were to get married, I would love to be a SAHM and home school my children (since my degree is in elementary education), in addition to making a nice home for my husband. I’m currently learning how to run a house and I am taking cooking classes. Next step: sewing.
W
whatevergirl
Guest
*Being a parent is the best job and most rewarding…in the world. Because it doesn’t come with a paycheck, many devalue it in our society. That’s too bad. Looking at my kids, now 13 and 17…who are growing up into holy, kind, intelligent human beings…there’s nothing like watching that. AND being a part of that. *
W
whatevergirl
Guest
*No wonder I like you, my degree is in elem education, minor in english…and I never used it. No jobs when I got out of college.I thought that I would become a independent career woman who didn’t need a man. Now I’m working on my graduate degree so I can do the work I love in case I never get married (teachers have to have a masters’ degree in most states). I don’t want to be stuck in customer service the rest of my life.
But IF I were to get married, I would love to be a SAHM and home school my children (since my degree is in elementary education), in addition to making a nice home for my husband. I’m currently learning how to run a house and I am taking cooking classes. Next step: sewing.
Aw, you’d be a great teacher, CS! :hug1:I submit this to single people…don’t worry about the future so much, and men, and careers…just take each day, in the step God shows you to take. Ask Him what His plans are for you? Everything just falls into place rather effortlessly when you live life more, and allow God to lead you to your destinations.
*
F
flyingfish
Guest
As far as I know studies show that money helps happiness to a point. I think in the US that number is a 60k a year salary. Up to that point, money increases your happiness, after that as far as I remember it makes no change.
C
CountrySinger
Guest
Thank you WG!*No wonder I like you, my degree is in elem education, minor in english…and I never used it. No jobs when I got out of college.
I submit this to single people…don’t worry about the future so much, and men, and careers…just take each day, in the step God shows you to take. Ask Him what His plans are for you? Everything just falls into place rather effortlessly when you live life more, and allow God to lead you to your destinations.
It freaked me out a lot when I found out the tuition for one year of graduate school, but it will result in a near guaranteed job (special education is desperate for teachers, and I love working with children with special needs). As a side benefit, guys like special education teachers for some reason.
One of my friend’s guy friends keeps calling me (but he’s Mormon, so he’s out). - Status