Gender pronouns in the workplace

[Alex337]

JoyToTheWhirled:

I just find the whole thing mind-numbingly depressing. It’s like lots of things are being co opted to create a really oppressive monster. Language changes organically, this we know. It is only ever useful if it accurately describes things. Otherwise we might as well be in a world invented by Lewis Carroll.
It’s the wedge in the door that blocks out utter insanity. This isn’t organic natural language change. It’s social engineering.

Yes, indeed, cut from the same cloth as that dreadful ‘inclusive language’. Ugh!

Lol, you know that sounds lovely.

 

[TheOldColonel]

Salute smartly returned.

 

[Alex337]

I just find the whole thing mind-numbingly depressing. It’s like lots of things are being co opted to create a really oppressive monster. Language changes organically, this we know. It is only ever useful if it accurately describes things. Otherwise we might as well be in a world invented by Lewis Carroll.
It’s the wedge in the door that blocks out utter insanity. This isn’t organic natural language change. It’s social engineering.

It only feels oppressive because this time you’re the one expected to take another person into account.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

Folkways can be so various and amusing. As a Southerner, I was reared to say “ma’am” to any woman who’s not manifestly of high-school age, and am far too old to undo my training at this point. I also tend to smolder a tiny bit when not addressed as “sir.”

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Then people have a better idea who they are addressing, I guess. Years ago on the the old CAF posters who had interacted with frequently would be surprised that I was female, some even seemed dismayed, as though I had misled them. Generally, I like to go about these interwebs anonymously and without gender. It shouldn’t matter if I am male or female when it comes to a discussion or debate.
I’m anticipating this is one of those things that no matter what I do it isn’t right.

 

[blackforest]

Maybe I should clarify on my profile that I’m female. Most people here assume I’m a guy. I must post like one, lol!

 

[margaret42]

Just ignore PC

 

[kill051]

Folkways can be so various and amusing. As a Southerner, I was reared to say “ma’am” to any woman who’s not manifestly of high-school age, and am far too old to undo my training at this point. I also tend to smolder a tiny bit when not addressed as “sir.”

I was raised in a part of the US where manners are distressingly informal, and consequently was never taught to address my elders as ‘sir’ or ‘ma’am’. Now that I am on the far side of fifty, I find myself constantly being addressed as ‘sir’, and I must say, I like it!

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Quite a number did on the old forum, usually in the signature line.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

girl who happened to be hired by HR.

If she’s over the age of 16 she deserves the respect of being called a woman.

Just ignore PC

But as I said, it’s not just PC. It’s also a matter of treating people with respect.

 

[AlbertDerGrosse]

I was raised in a part of the US where manners are distressingly informal, and consequently was never taught to address my elders as ‘sir’ or ‘ma’am’.

Same here. I never knew that anyone responded to their mom or dad with “yes ma’am.” and “yes sir.” Where I come from the proper way to acknowledge your mother calling your name is “huh!?”

 

[margaret42]

I can understand fully why someone would want to stay unknown on a forum. We are talking to strangers. And it’s no one’s business what you call yourself.

 

[Alex337]

I have one of those names that people love to change after I’ve introduced myself. I hate it when people take it on themself to ignore what my name is and give me a new one. I’ve also had people tell me my surname is “wrong” as my family chose to have an anglicised pronunciation of a Polish surname (after my grandparents got sick of people mispronouncing it).

It’s excessively rude and presumptuous to do this. I know my name. I know how my family say it. And I’ve literally had family members have their name removed and changed to suit other people. I don’t think that’s okay.

And I don’t see much difference when it comes you pronouns. Does it hurt me to respect what someone wants to be called? No. Would I happily call someone Bob instead of Robert if asked? Sure. So why get one’s knickers in a knot over a pronoun? Let alone over other people wanting to know what yours is so they can respect it.

 

[Alex337]

AlbertDerGrosse:

They/them is usually accepted by gender nonconforming folks.

The problem is that ‘they’ or ‘them’, being plural, are grammatically incorrect when referring to one person, whom should rightly be referred to as ‘he’ or ‘she’(or ‘it’, as the case may be). Must we really bastardise the English tongue in order to satisfy the querulous demands of a woefully confused sub-segment of the population?

They/ them actually has historical use and language evolves, I’m an English teacher and it’s just how it goes. We often use they/them as a singular when we don’t know the sex of the person, e.g. “Pizza’s here, they’re at the door” it’s a far better option than the also incorrect “it”.

 

[Alex337]

That would be because the group you’re asking to “give” have been conforming for years and all they are asking is for you to call them what they want. Where you want to call them something else.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

And it’s no one’s business what you call yourself.

Amen! \o/
.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

I place a high value on respecting others, and being solicitous of their feelings. However, there’s a point where I being to sense that my respect and goodwill are being presumed upon, and that’s when someone considers me obliged to address others in a way that radically fails to comport with reality. If I insist on being called “Monsignor,” “Doctor,” “Captain,” or “Ma’am”–despite not passing even the most elementary criteria for these titles–it’s fair to treat me as a fellow with peculiar designs on reality … designs that not even the best-willed, most charitable interlocutor on Earth is obliged to cater to, and indeed ought not cater to.

 

[Alex337]

I place a high value on respecting others, and being solicitous of their feelings. However, there’s a point where I being to sense that my respect and goodwill are being presumed upon, and that’s when someone considers me obliged to address others in a way that radically fails to comport with reality. If I insist on being called “Monsignor,” “Doctor,” “Captain,” or “Ma’am”–despite not passing even the most elementary criteria for these titles–it’s fair to treat me as a fellow with peculiar designs on reality … designs that not even the best-willed, most charitable interlocutor on Earth is obliged to cater to, and indeed ought not cater to.

Does it physically hurt you to the another person’s feelings into account and use the pronoun they ask? I know someone whose nickname is Squish: no way in the world is that their name.

 

[kill051]

kill051:

I was raised in a part of the US where manners are distressingly informal, and consequently was never taught to address my elders as ‘sir’ or ‘ma’am’.

Same here. I never knew that anyone responded to their mom or dad with “yes ma’am.” and “yes sir.” Where I come from the proper way to acknowledge your mother calling your name is “huh!?”

My mother’s family were Texans, and whenever we would visit them, I was surprised to hear my young cousins address their elders as ‘sir’ and ‘ma’am’. On returning to my home state, I tried this a few times on family friends and older relatives, and was immediately either ridiculed or reprimanded. Quite confusing for an eight-year old!

 

[kill051]

They/ them actually has historical use and language evolves, I’m an English teacher and it’s just how it goes. We often use they/them as a singular when we don’t know the sex of the person, e.g. “Pizza’s here, they’re at the door” it’s a far better option than the also incorrect “it”.

I wonder, though, if this is an example of language evolving, or is it rather an example of devolution instead? I am in favor of the evolution of language, particularly when the changes are organic and can clarify troublesome issues, but when the changes are imposed from without, as it were, and not in the service of clarification but rather to suit the biases of a certain group, I begin to have a problem. As Shaw’s Higgins says, this is the language of Shakespeare and Milton. We should be wary of wholesale, arbitrary changes to a tongue with such an exalted lineage.