General Absolution

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I have a question regarding General Absolution.

I went to a “communal penance” service in the Saginaw Diocese this weekend. I was expecting there to be an opportunity for private confessions afterwards, but unfortunately there were not. The priest had us sing a few songs, listen to the Gospel about the prodigal son—then a lay woman got up and gave a talk about forgiveness. The lay woman read some things to think about while examing your conscience and then the priest absolved everyone and it was over.

I thought General Absolution was only allowed in case of dire necessity–like if you were on a ship about to go down or if you were about to go into battle. Am I wrong on this? Did something change? Was I really absolved of my sins?
 
And those who do not die in the emergency situation are to go to individual confession asap.
 
bakhita said:
I have a question regarding General Absolution.

I went to a “communal penance” service in the Saginaw Diocese this weekend. I was expecting there to be an opportunity for private confessions afterwards, but unfortunately there were not. The priest had us sing a few songs, listen to the Gospel about the prodigal son—then a lay woman got up and gave a talk about forgiveness. The lay woman read some things to think about while examing your conscience and then the priest absolved everyone and it was over.

I thought General Absolution was only allowed in case of dire necessity–like if you were on a ship about to go down or if you were about to go into battle. Am I wrong on this? Did something change? Was I really absolved of my sins?
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That is correct General Absolution is reserved for very specific circumstances. General Absolution also requires you to go to individual Confession if you survive. Survive what in this case, Maybe the Penance service? I don’t know. Anyway you are still alive and kicking so you are required to go to Confession ASAP.
 
Should I write a letter to the Bishop about what I experienced at this service? Why is this type of thing even allowed to go on in the diocese?
 
bakhita said:
I have a question regarding General Absolution.

I went to a “communal penance” service in the Saginaw Diocese this weekend. I was expecting there to be an opportunity for private confessions afterwards, but unfortunately there were not. The priest had us sing a few songs, listen to the Gospel about the prodigal son—then a lay woman got up and gave a talk about forgiveness. The lay woman read some things to think about while examing your conscience and then the priest absolved everyone and it was over. …"
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Any chance it was a penance service? How sure are you that there was a general absolution at the end? Did the priest say “And I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”? Could he have ended with a blessing: “May almighty God bless you, the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.”?

The Rite of Penance has penitential services, could this have been one?
“V. PENITENTIAL SERVICES
NATURE AND STRUCTURE
36. Penitential services are gatherings of the people of God to hear God’s word as an invitation to conversion and renewal of life and as the message of our liberation from sin through Christ’s death and resurrection. The structure of these services is the same as that usually followed in celebrations of the word of God [footnote 51: See Sacred Congregation for Rites, Instruction Inter Oecumenici, September 26, 1964, nos. 37-39] and given in the Rite for Reconciliation of Several Penitents.
It is appropriate, therefore, that after the introductory rites (song, greeting, and opening prayer) one or more biblical readings be chosen with songs, psalms, or periods of silence inserted between them. In the homily these readings should be explained and applied to the congregation. Before or after the readings from Scripture, readings from the Fathers or other writers may also be selected that will help the community and each person to a true awareness of sin and heartfelt sorrow, in other words, to bring about conversion of life.
After the homily and reflection on God’s word, it is desireable that the congregation, united in voice and spirit, pray together in a litany or in some other way suited to general participation. At the end the Lord’s Prayer is said, asking God our Father “to forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us … and deliver us from evil.” The priest or minister who presides concludes with a prayer and the dismissal of the people.
BENEFIT AND IMPORTANCE
37. Care must be taken to ensure that the faithful do not confuse these celebrations with the celebration of the sacrament of penance. …”
(The Rites Volume One, Liturgical Press, 1990, ISBN: 0-8146-6015-0, page 541-542).

I think the latest rules on general absolutions are of 7 April 2002, in “Misericordia Dei” n. 4 at vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/motu_proprio/documents/hf_jp-ii_motu-proprio_20020502_misericordia-dei_en.html .

Concerns about liturgy in Saginaw could be directed towards the Liturgy Officet (see saginaw.org/diocenter/liturgy ) or directed to Bishop Carlson, 5800 Weiss St., Saginaw, MI 48603-2799.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
That is correct General Absolution is reserved for very specific circumstances. General Absolution also requires you to go to individual Confession if you survive. Survive what in this case, Maybe the Penance service? I don’t know. Anyway you are still alive and kicking so you are required to go to Confession ASAP.
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The only legitimate General Absolution that I know of personally took place in New York City on September 11, 2001. At least two priests, that I know of, saw the carnage when the first plane hit and knelt in the roadway and gave absolution to everyone in the twin towers.

One priest was in Brooklyn or Queens and was driving somewhere when traffic stopped. He got out of his car and immediately gave General Absolution. The other priest was the pastor of the Catholic church nearest to the WTC (St. Peter’s Church on Barclay Street) and he also immediately gave General Absolution.
 
Al,
Are you sure you didn’t accidentally walk into an Episcopalian worship service? Sure does sound like one.

But in all seriousness, this episode sounds like nothing more than the further Protestantization of The Catholic Church.

That “priest” needs a none too gentle reminder that he’s a CATHOLIC priest, and needs to conduct himself accordingly. After all, souls are in the balance.
 
Caveman said:
Al,
Are you sure you didn’t accidentally walk into an Episcopalian worship service? Sure does sound like one.

But in all seriousness, this episode sounds like nothing more than the further Protestantization of The Catholic Church.

That “priest” needs a none too gentle reminder that he’s a CATHOLIC priest, and needs to conduct himself accordingly. After all, souls are in the balance.
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So, 9/11 at the World Trade Center didn’t count as the type of dire necessity requiring General Absolution?

Please clarify.

Thanks.
 
Al_Masetti said:
So, 9/11 at the World Trade Center didn’t count as the type of dire necessity requiring General Absolution?

Please clarify.

Thanks.
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Clearly caveman got his posters mixed up - hence his reference to ‘priest’ rather than the multiple ‘priests’ you mentioned. I don’t think anyone would dispute that 9/11 was a textbook case for these General Absolutions.
 
Al_Masetti said:
So, 9/11 at the World Trade Center didn’t count as the type of dire necessity requiring General Absolution?

Please clarify.

Thanks.
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I think Caveman was directing his post to the original poster. (not to you Al) 911 was a perfect time and place for General Absolution. I don’t know anyone on earth that would argue THAT point.

I know that in my own Parish we used to have Penance Services with actual GENERAL ABSOLUTION. The priest however, never mentioned that if one had mortal sin on their soul they must go to individual confession ASAP. They started out in my area of Roman Catholic Churches a number of years ago with this General Absolution Service. At first, it was the service with several area priests hearing individual confessions afterwards. The next few years it was General Absolution Service with a few priests and we were asked to go up and confess to them (in private) ONLY ONE SIN. And that went on also for the next few years.(always during Lent and Advent) Then came the General Absolution Service with NO private confession. The priest would give regular ABSOLUTION to all attendees. I also heard one priest say to a parishioner there wasn’t enough time nor enough priests for individual confession.

I don’t know what ya’ll think, but to me that is heading down the Protestant road for sure.

Teelynn
 
Did the priest say “And I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”?

Yes–those were the exact words said at the end of the service.

What makes it worse was that a friend went with me to this (this was not our usual parish) and my friend does not believe that the Catholic church believes in confession anymore–and she took this as proof that private confession was obsolete. I’m having a hard time explaining to her that private confession is what we’re supposed to be doing.
 
Al_Masetti said:
So, 9/11 at the World Trade Center didn’t count as the type of dire necessity requiring General Absolution?

Please clarify.

Thanks.
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Of course 9-11 is a perfect example. I mistakenly thought you were the one who started this post.

Sorry, that should have been directed at BAKHITA
 
I guess where I was going is … that disasters of huge proportions DO happen, even today.

And so the original actual conditions for General Absolution do, unhappily, still happen. And the original justification still holds.

And … General Absolution is aimed specifically at those disasters.
Not a change in subject, entirely … one of my priest-friends, years ago, was telling me he got shook up one day … he was driving somewhere on a superhighway and came upon the scene of a horrible traffic accident. He parked his car and attempted to go to the wreck, but the State Troopers stopped him, with great apology and said that it was so dangerous that they couldn’t allow him to go to the wreck.

So, he, with regret was limited to giving (what I assume was a General Absolution) to the occupants of the car.
 
I had the same experience at a catholic church where group absolution was offerred. Later, I found this was done at every Sunday mass by this particular priest as he did not want to deny anyone communion. this priest has since been "retired"by the diocese. On another occasion, at my own parish during Lent the priest had people go up to him and two other priests who stood in front of the congregation and “whisper” your sins and receive absolution. We were told to keep the confession brief and to the point. I was not comfortable with this, I thought this was also not how confession should be done. Liberalism gone rampant and we wonder why people have left the church.
 
Al_Masetti said:
I guess where I was going is … that disasters of huge proportions DO happen, even today.

And so the original actual conditions for General Absolution do, unhappily, still happen. And the original justification still holds.

And … General Absolution is aimed specifically at those disasters.
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As a retired Marine, I can relate and agree with you, wholeheartedly.
 
I went to one of these in the Saginaw Diocese before.

99 percent of the time, there are no provisions for individual confessions just before or after.

It is billed as an absolution. The priest says “I absolve you…” and you know the rest.

I asked an RCIA instructor about it, and the response was that Bishop (you-know-who) started it so people could be absolved without having to try to get to a confession time. The instructor added that individual confession should still be practiced if you did something serious, like a murder. (that’s a quote, by the way)

Anyway, it isn’t just a blessing, it isn’t just a pennance service (although that’s what they’re called), it is a general absolution. No mistaking it at all. It’s very much encouraged to go to, and openly advertised as counting for confessions.

I know Bishop Carlson knows about them, and I’ve heard rumors that he’s going to put the brakes on it, but apparently not soon.
 
Teelynn said:
I think Caveman was directing his post to the original poster. (not to you Al) 911 was a perfect time and place for General Absolution. I don’t know anyone on earth that would argue THAT point.

I know that in my own Parish we used to have Penance Services with actual GENERAL ABSOLUTION. The priest however, never mentioned that if one had mortal sin on their soul they must go to individual confession ASAP. They started out in my area of Roman Catholic Churches a number of years ago with this General Absolution Service. At first, it was the service with several area priests hearing individual confessions afterwards. The next few years it was General Absolution Service with a few priests and we were asked to go up and confess to them (in private) ONLY ONE SIN. And that went on also for the next few years.(always during Lent and Advent) Then came the General Absolution Service with NO private confession. The priest would give regular ABSOLUTION to all attendees. I also heard one priest say to a parishioner there wasn’t enough time nor enough priests for individual confession.

I don’t know what ya’ll think, but to me that is heading down the Protestant road for sure.

Teelynn
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Tee,

Here too…before I knew any better I attended one of these at a church near me. (I try my best not to set foot in that parish now, only when I’ve missed all the other Masses for the weekend!)

A traveling priest came and did a Lenten Mission at this church, we were told we’d recieve a plenary indulgence for attending the three nights of the mission and a penance service at the end with general absolution. (No mention of the regular requirements for a plenary indulgence) I’d never heard of such a thing before. After the absolution they told us the Church would “prefer” that we go to confession within a year, but that it was not strictly neccessary.

:mad:

Gullible Catholics who don’t know their faith (like I was at the time) or outside observers can draw such wrong conclusions about the Church from these services! Imagine being a Methodist or Baptist visitor to one of these things…what misconceptions you’d get from erroneous practices!

:mad:
 
From the 2007 Apostolic Exhortation Sacramentum Caritatis:

“21. … I ask pastors to be vigilant with regard to the celebration of the sacrament of Reconciliation, and to limit the practice of general absolution exclusively to the cases permitted,
(footnote 61: Cf. John Paul II, Motu Proprio Misericordia Dei (7 April 2002): AAS 94 (2002), 452-459.)
since individual absolution is the only form intended for ordinary use.
(footnote 62: Together with the Synod Fathers I wish to note that the non-sacramental penitential services mentioned in the ritual of the sacrament of Reconciliation can be helpful for increasing the spirit of conversion and of communion in Christian communities, thereby preparing hearts for the celebration of the sacrament: cf. Propositio 7.)”

The full document is at vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_ben-xvi_exh_20070222_sacramentum-caritatis_en.html .

So again, make sure it was not a penitential service.
 
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