General Tendency among anti-Trad posters

[ethelzguy]

If we go back to the TRADITIONAL midnight (or even the 3-hr) fast, this would work too.

So, changing the rules to EXCLUDE more people from receiving is your answer to justify eliminating EMHCs?

Boy, howdy…

 

[ethelzguy]

Well, when you have all the parishioners insisting on running the show, where is there a need for priests?

A comment that could be equally applied to all Catholics. However, I suspect you intended otherwise

 

[JuanCarlos]

Based on what Church teaching or document do you make this assertion? Has the Church defined “Traditional Catholic”, or do you just make this stuff up to suit your personal attacks on others?

No church document. But tell me, what is the Vatican organization for Traditionalist Catholics? Ecclesia Dei. What does Ecclesia Dei regulate? Traditional Latin Masses. Spiller does not attend the TLM- nor does she even prefer it. Which is fine- the Novus Ordo is a Church sanctioned, approved, and spiritually edifying Mass. Just not for me. Or Trad Caths, who merely prefer the TLM. But Spiller does not prefer the TLM herself (or even attend it), and is a EMHC- which is not a Traditional thing to do.

Spiller is a Catholic who is presumably in the state of grace, a child of the Church and a child of God. But she is by no stretch of the imagination a Traditionalist Catholic any more than I am an Ethiopian Tehwado Orthodox Catholic. This is not an insult and I do not mena it as such in any way at all- I am simply stating my opinion on the matter.

Blessed Feast of Peter and Paul to you all

 

[pnewton]

Very simple…because of the “irregular standing” of the SSPX. That’s about as simple as it gets.

Correct. There is nothing in the traditional philosphy or spirituality I object to. I object because their leadership is ex-communicated. They speak openly against the Holy Father. They openly insult other Catholics who are not Traditionalists. They draw people that are vulnerable to their rhetoric toward a state that, according to Ecclesia Dei, puts them in danger of heresy and schism.

 

[JuanCarlos]

So, changing the rules to EXCLUDE more people from receiving is your answer to justify eliminating EMHCs?

Boy, howdy…

Given that barely any Catholics go to confession it can be presumed there are a lot of souls in mortal sin regularly profaning the Lord by receiving It- which, as Fr Serpa wisely says, is worse than throwing the Host in the sewer.

 

[JuanCarlos]

But oh, so alike in so many ways…like their constant criticisms of the HMC and her clergy…like their constant denigration of Vatican II and the NO Mass…

The Institute of the Good Shepherd, a Papal approved Traditionalist society, was founded on the premise that they could (charitably) critique the Second Vatican Council. There were no anathemas or definitions at the Council- thus nothing infallible.

The Fourth Lateran Council declared (non-infallibly, of course) that Jews were required to wear different colored clothes in order to differentiate them from Christians; the Council of Nicaea said it was sinful to kneel in Church on Sundays- not everything that comes out of council is infallible

 

[JuanCarlos]

That is utter rubbish. A traditional minded Catholic believes in obedience, not superiority over the HMC and her clergy.

How on earth was what I was saying lacking in obedience? I respect the right of Catholics to prefer the OF over the EF- I am just trying to process how someone who is not a traditional Catholic in practice can claim to be one in fact. If she simply said “I’m not a Trad Cath” this would be a whole lot less confusing.

 

[pnewton]

Given that barely any Catholics go to confession it can be presumed there are a lot of souls in mortal sin regularly profaning the Lord by receiving It- which, as Fr Serpa wisely says, is worse than throwing the Host in the sewer.

Yes, what a horrible thing to do. On the other hand, we are not to assume that some one is in mortal sin. The ease with which one hands out judgment is how it will be returned to them.

 

[JuanCarlos]

Are you serious?

Originally Posted by SanJudas
Good heavens! Have I ever actually received Holy Communion from a person like this? No wonder almost 80% of American Catholics don’t believe in the Real Presence any more!

The above quote is not a personal attack???

It does not infer that he is less of a Catholic than you are???

That was a quote by San Judas, not me. I stand by my claim I did not use one personal attack in my post.

 

[ethelzguy]

Given that barely any Catholics go to confession it can be presumed there are a lot of souls in mortal sin regularly profaning the Lord by receiving It- which, as Fr Serpa wisely says, is worse than throwing the Host in the sewer.

Presuming the state of the souls of others is not grounds to restrict dispensing of Holy Communion. It is just more judgemental nonsense.

 

[JuanCarlos]

Yes, what a horrible thing to do. On the other hand, we are not to assume that some one is in mortal sin. The ease with which one hands out judgment is how it will be returned to them.

Of course, of course. But I am simply drawing from objective reports I have read that state how few Catholics go to yearly confession- and of course, a failure to go to yearly confession is grave matter.

 

[JuanCarlos]

Presuming the state of the souls of others is not grounds to restrict dispensing of Holy Communion. It is just more judgemental nonsense.

My point was too many people are receiving communion that shouldn’t be, not that the Church should respond by restrictive measures. My apologies for not clarifying . Mea culpa

 

[ethelzguy]

Of course, of course. But I am simply drawing from objective reports I have read that state how few Catholics go to yearly confession- and of course, a failure to go to yearly confession is grave matter.

While the lines at weekly confession may not be long, it has been my observation that, when visiting priests in large numbers are brought in (at many parishes) just before Easter and Christmas, the lines are staggering.

So, apparently there are many Catholics who take the yearly Confession obligation (or “Easter Duty” for us old folks) seriously enough.

 

[tcraig]

Traditional Catholic- a Catholic who enjoys “traditional” Catholic practices- Latin Masses, no meat on fridays, cassocks, receiving on the tongue kneeling, no EMHCs (There were no EMHC’s in traditional Catholicism; thus there are none in the modern Trad Cath spiritual experience), and traditional Catechisms

I’m happy to have a “Latin Mass” whether it be NO or TLM. Actually, I prefer a Latin/English NO over the 1962 TLM, and I say this as someone who attended an FSSP parish exclusively for 2-1/2 years. I abstain from meat on Friday, unless it would be uncharitable not to (example, I have been invited to a 4th of July party - if my host serves meat I will substitue another penance). I’d love every priest to wear a cassock, but accept that not every priest would want to. I’d prefer no EMHC’s, but accept that as a lay Catholic that’s not my call. My prayers and catechisms are all traditional (I still say Holy Ghost, but I learned that as a Presbyterian, LOL) but I still like the CCC.

1. You do not enjoy the EF in the sense Trad Caths do (if you even attend at all). It is impossible to divorce the Traditioanl Catholic movement from the TRADITIONAL Latin Mass. As well, you look down upon traditional Catechisms (“obsolete”?), and in fact you look down on Trad Caths! The cherry on top is that you are a Eucharistic minister- Trad Caths NEVER touch the Host!!!

Well, I consider myself a traditional Catholic, but I have received communion in the hand before, especially in situations where I’ve considered it prudent to do so. I don’t think it makes one difference in what I think. Additionally, while my husband and I were members at our FSSP parish he was sent to Iraq for a year. He was asked by the priest over there to serve as an EMHC. WITH THE PERMISSION of our very traditional FSSP priest, my husband served as an EMHC while in Iraq. So don’t make generalities about what “trad Caths” do or do not do.

I don’t “look down” on traditional Catholics (I consider myself one) but I do look down upon those who describe themselves as traditional Catholics but then constantly criticize those who prefer the OF/NO or who even say Holy Spirit instead of Holy Ghost. It’s a big church, there’s room for all of us as long as we don’t disagree on doctrine.

You. are. not. a. Traditional. Catholic! Its very simple! You are no more a Traditional Catholic than I am a Maronite- not even remotely. Yes, I love and respect that particular Church but I do not use icons as the center of my home prayer life, I follow the Latin calender, I prefer the TLM over the Maronite Liturgy, and I prefer Latin Catechisms over Maronite ones. Its not an insult for me to be called a non-Maronite- its common sense!!!

The definition of “traditional Catholic” seems to be a largely made-up one. In my experience, faithful practicing Catholics share fare more common traits than not. I mean, I “follow the Latin calendar”, too - mine just happens to be the NO Latin calendar currently rather than the 1962 one (though I followed that one when I attended the TLM exclusively).

I see the bigger problem as being people like you who want to “separate” faithful, practicing Catholics into groups simply over mass preference. In all my years attending the TLM and the NO, I couldn’t pick out in a line-up which faithful, practicing Catholics were TLM or NO, and I doubt you could, either.

 

[JuanCarlos]

I see the bigger problem as being people like you who want to “separate” faithful, practicing Catholics into groups simply over mass preference. In all my years attending the TLM and the NO, I couldn’t pick out in a line-up which faithful, practicing Catholics were TLM or NO, and I doubt you could, either.

I would definitely not want to do such a thing- all Catholics united in communion with the Holy Father are one- Maronite, Latin, Byzantine, Ethiopian, Copt, Ukraine, etc. My point was that each of these groups has a niche in the Church, and each has their own special, unique traditions. Traditional Catholicism has her traditions too, and they are very pretty much applicable to Trads across the board- a like for Latin, old Catechisms, meatless Fridays, Cassocks, male only altar servers, communicating on the tongue, etc.

I was only trying to point out that by her posts I cannot see Spiller’s “traditional mindedness” coming out, given that she does not observe traditional customs and even at time sis contemptuous of them.

 

[consumedconvert]

Good heavens! Have I ever actually received Holy Communion from a person like this? No wonder almost 80% of American Catholics don’t believe in the Real Presence any more!

Oh good grief!

Did not Saint Francis tell his Brothers that if he knew that a Priest had spent the last night in adultery, he would take Holy Communion from his hands?

Besides, you don’t even know this man. That was a nasty and unjustifiable thing to say.

 

[ProVobis]

So, changing the rules to EXCLUDE more people from receiving is your answer to justify eliminating EMHCs?

Boy, howdy…

They didn’t complain before Vatican II. In fact, they thanked the Pope for the 3-hr rule. So what’s the real problem?

 

[ProVobis]

They speak openly against the Holy Father.

Then they would be stooping down to Hans Kung level. I don’t think so.

 

[ProVobis]

Presuming the state of the souls of others is not grounds to restrict dispensing of Holy Communion.

I don’t think that’s your call to make. The Vatican can impose any restrictions it wants, just or unjust. Besides, it’s only a practice, as you anti-trads like to call it, so what’s the big deal? If they say that Communion must be passed around and must be received in the pews, accept it.

 

[Yerusalyim]

I don’t fit into any of those categories. I am a life long relatively conservative Catholic. My opposition to much of what I find in the TRAD forum is that so many Trads think their way is the only way and that the NO mass is insufficient or illicit depending on whom you ask.

I’m happy, for those who find deeper spirituallity in it, that the TLM is making a come back, but for many Catholics, myself included, the vernacular is where I find my spiritual connection in the mass.

That’s it, no hatred of Trads, just oppossition to the opinion of many trads that the Old Way is the ONLY Way.