Genesis 18: God Appearing as Three Men

[thistle]

Yes but it must be asked why three - just before the Lord had appeared to Abraham on his ownand elsewhere only one angelwas sent.Do we not also here have an incarnation before the word was made flesh and dwelt amongst us.Was the one who. is seen as the Lord the Father or the son - twinc

There was only one Incarnation or do you not understand the meaning of “unique and singular event”?

CCC 461 Taking up St. John’s expression, “The Word became flesh”, the Church calls “Incarnation” the fact that the Son of God assumed a human nature in order to accomplish our salvation in it. In a hymn cited by St. Paul, the Church sings the mystery of the Incarnation:

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.

CCC 462 The Letter to the Hebrews refers to the same mystery:

Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me; in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure. Then I said, Lo, I have come to do your will, O God.”

CC 463 Belief in the true Incarnation of the Son of God is the distinctive sign of Christian faith: “By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit which confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God.” Such is the joyous conviction of the Church from her beginning whenever she sings “the mystery of our religion”: “He was manifested in the flesh.”

CCC 464** The unique and altogether singular event of the Incarnation of the Son of God **does not mean that Jesus Christ is part God and part man, nor does it imply that he is the result of a confused mixture of the divine and the human. He became truly man while remaining truly God. Jesus Christ is true God and true man.

 

[DPMartin]

Yes but it must be asked why three - just before the Lord had appeared to Abraham on his ownand elsewhere only one angelwas sent.Do we not also here have an incarnation before the word was made flesh and dwelt amongst us.Was the one who. is seen as the Lord the Father or the son - twinc

Twinc

thanks for the reply

There is certainly no harm in the investigation thereof.

It is duly noted that the Voice of the Lord was revealed in the flesh, in the case of the three men.

So, how is it that one knows the Voice of the Lord? Considering that it is true that God’s Word is Life and one should follow it in the doing thereof. Therefore the Fulfillment of God’s Word in man. Hence the true fulfillment of human existence. Since human existence is the property of God, shouldn’t human existence be in the image of God as in His likeness, or be apparent properties of God?

---

According to the commentaries in the Stone Edition of the Torah it is believed that the three men were angels noting that three days after Abraham’s circumcision did they come in the heat of the day noting also that in the heat of the day it was not common for people to be out and about. But their reasoning for three angels is considered by the writer of the commentary that each angel has a single mission requiring the presence of the three with three individual missions. Though through out scripture it could be seen this way but I beg to differ with that do to the angel Michael was on more then one mission so to speak when he visited Daniel (Dan:10:13). But that could be disputed as doing one thing at a time, then do the next, rather then one mission at a time.

But when one reads the Hebrew view one has to take into consideration that the Hebrews do not see that Jesus is their fulfillment, or see fulfillment in Jesus Christ of Nazareth. And it has been said by a converted Rabi that though the Stone Edition is well used, like KJV. But the commentaries therein should be taken with a grain of salt. Again by reason that they don’t believe Jesus is the Messiah. But this does not diminish in any shape or form the value of that which the Hebrews know of their own generations and heritage before the Lord their God. I believe they understand more about the Presence of God, more then most Christians can ever dream of. It seems that most Christians expect fulfillment according to their satisfaction, rather than God’s satisfaction. (OK, so it was a cheep shot, commentary )

Just before the visitation of the three men Sarah was visited with a message and Abraham was visited by the Presence of God before that, and it could be consitered what was said to them in the presence of the three men was an affirmation of the same messages they received of God. But what was said in the case of Abraham when he was visited.

Gen:17:1: And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. (WOW)

In the original English perfect means fulfilled, complete.

Therefore I still contend that Abraham most definitely can recognize the Presence of the Lord his God. And would bow in this sense to no other. And this could be said of Abraham if one takes into consideration that he Abraham was perfect in his generations, therefore needed to bow to no man. He was tenth gen of Noah who was tenth gen of Adam and I am sure most of the world around him was quite aware of that fact, for the tenth gen from Adam, Noah, was all flesh destroyed and was not easily for gotten since it was less than four centuries ago in Abraham’s day, and Shem son of Noah was still alive at that time. If my memory serves Abram was 50 yr’s old when Noah passed away. And some significant act of God with Abraham could have been easily expected, by not only himself, but also the world around him.

In respect to the why three men, though yes two went to Lot, it could also be clear that three men was used to show Abraham the fulfilling of the promise of the established covenant and how the covenant was to be establish through Abraham as in not only through Sarah his wife and through circumcision but also in what was establish as “the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” to clarify to future generations that the covenant was established no were else. Such as Abraham Ishmael, or Abraham Isaac and Esau or some other version. Therefore no mistaken identity in whom the Lord’s work, in the fulfillment of human existence is to be through.

Hence the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob a revelation of Father Son and Holy Ghost yes, but the three men a direct revelation of the same, I just don’t see it there since it is meant, I believe that the understanding of Father Son and Holy Ghost is most definitely revealed in God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, and that same understanding is not pointed to the three men visiting.

 

[twinc]

some say three angels,whilst others say God and two angels,but the scripture in question says three men and these three men ate and drank and had there feet washed after a tiring journey etc so this is not a theophany and again it is asked was the Lord God the Father or the son - God made flesh but did not dwell amongst us - twinc

 

[DPMartin]

some say three angels,whilst others say God and two angels,but the scripture in question says three men and these three men ate and drank and had there feet washed after a tiring journey etc so this is not a theophany and again it is asked was the Lord God the Father or the son - God made flesh but did not dwell amongst us - twinc

Twinc

thanks for the reply

Understood:
But there is no other scripture that says or described anything other then what the scripture in question says. For example, it is important to know and understand the act on Mount. Moriah, the fulfillment thereof all the scripture and acts of Israel related and associated to the act on Mount. Moriah, but there ain’t squat on the three men in question is there? And it is miss guided to extract single scripture without that which is written before it and after it.

What do we know? Three men, and the Voice of the Lord was amongst the three, and two completed or fulfilled that which one of the three said the was the reason of being there. Why shouldn’t that be sufficient for you?

The whole purpose of Abraham to Jesus Christ was the coming of the Word of God, of the Father “only begotten” made flesh, via the sons of Abraham. To understand what the Lord Jesus fulfilled is in all that God’s Presence with men did, not necessarily in the visitation of these three men. When looking to Scripture it’s about what God says and does, otherwise it’s just a history, and nice versus.

All I can honestly tell you is ask the Lord, He was there. Surly He can give understanding in this.

 

[chosen_people]

Thistle

I don’t see where all three are the Trinity, but the man has a point. Would Abraham bow to any one other then the Lord?

Gen 18:

1: And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2: And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3: And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

He ran to meet them and said My Lord.
Since the Lord Himself declared that Abraham was His Friend, would Abraham who had such a relationship with the Lord God Almighty recognize when he (Abraham) was in the Presence of the Lord his God? And the Scripture plainly states that the Lord appeared unto Abraham

So whether the Lord was there or not is not the question in this case it is whether the three was a revelation of “Trinity” or not.

From the rest of the narrative we know that the three men were actually angels in the guise of men. Why did God send three different angels? Because an angel is a function that God wishes to have performed. There were three missions to be accomplished in connection with Abraham and Sarah, each function is a new angel, thus three angles. According to the Midrash one angel does not perform two missions. The three missions: a) to inform Abraham and Sarah that they would have a son b)the overturning of Sodom and the third mission, that of rescue, by healing Abraham and saving Lot. In the 3rd verse Abraham takes leave of God but implores Him to “pass not away from your servant” but to wait while Abraham attended his guests. The Talmud teaches that we learn from Abraham’s actions that showing hospitality to wayfarers is even greater then receiving the Divine Presence. However this must not be seen as disrespect to God, because Abraham knew that by by serving God’s creatures he was serving God Himself. The lavish service he rendered his guests shows Abraham’s willingness to serve God.

 

[twinc]

From the rest of the narrative we know that the three men were actually angels in the guise of men. Why did God send three different angels? Because an angel is a function that God wishes to have performed. There were three missions to be accomplished in connection with Abraham and Sarah, each function is a new angel, thus three angles. According to the Midrash one angel does not perform two missions. The three missions: a) to inform Abraham and Sarah that they would have a son b)the overturning of Sodom and the third mission, that of rescue, by healing Abraham and saving Lot. In the 3rd verse Abraham takes leave of God but implores Him to “pass not away from your servant” but to wait while Abraham attended his guests. The Talmud teaches that we learn from Abraham’s actions that showing hospitality to wayfarers is even greater then receiving the Divine Presence. However this must not be seen as disrespect to God, because Abraham knew that by by serving God’s creatures he was serving God Himself. The lavish service he rendered his guests shows Abraham’s willingness to serve God.

well now you have not quoted what the scripture says viz three men,and they said and he said to them,as far as I know angels and God do not hunger or thirst or have hot sweety feet that need washing - twinc

 

[chosen_people]

well now you have not quoted what the scripture says viz three men,and they said and he said to them,as far as I know angels and God do not hunger or thirst or have hot sweety feet that need washing - twinc

Rashi deals with both these points. When Abraham brought water that they should wash their feet he did not yet know that they were angels. He thought they were were people that worship the dust of their feet and he would not allow an object of idolatry into his house. As for eating, angles do not eat in the human sense and only appeared to eat. This teaches that one should not deviate from the local custom. In the Kabbalistic sense, angles as spiritual beings receive their sustenance from holiness. So great was Abraham that his sacred behaviour provided the angles with the nourishment they required.

 

[Ecoclimber]

Then how do you explain this contradiction.

1. 
   *](Exodus 33:20) – “But He [God] said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live !”
   *](John 1:18) – “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”
   *](John 5:37) – “"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”
   *](John 6:46) - "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.”
   *] (1 Tim. 6:15-16) – “He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.”
   
   Unless in the OT they were seeing the Word of God before He became Incarnate otherwise there would be a major contradiction.

 

[twinc]

Then how do you explain this contradiction.

1. 
   *](Exodus 33:20) – “But He [God] said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live !”
   *](John 1:18) – “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”
   *](John 5:37) – “"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”
   *](John 6:46) - "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.”
   *] (1 Tim. 6:15-16) – “He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.”
   
   Unless in the OT they were seeing the Word of God before He became Incarnate otherwise there would be a major contradiction.

1. 
   okay - now try Exodus.24:9-11 and Deut.5:24-26 &34:10 & Numbers 6:8 - John tells us clearly it is God the Father they have not see but they have seen and saw the son and later He came unto His own and His own knew Him not - see Jn.5:37 & 6:46 - have fun whilst I am away for a fortnight - twinc

 

[DPMartin]

From the rest of the narrative we know that the three men were actually angels in the guise of men. Why did God send three different angels? Because an angel is a function that God wishes to have performed. There were three missions to be accomplished in connection with Abraham and Sarah, each function is a new angel, thus three angles. According to the Midrash one angel does not perform two missions. The three missions: a) to inform Abraham and Sarah that they would have a son b)the overturning of Sodom and the third mission, that of rescue, by healing Abraham and saving Lot. In the 3rd verse Abraham takes leave of God but implores Him to “pass not away from your servant” but to wait while Abraham attended his guests. The Talmud teaches that we learn from Abraham’s actions that showing hospitality to wayfarers is even greater then receiving the Divine Presence. However this must not be seen as disrespect to God, because Abraham knew that by by serving God’s creatures he was serving God Himself. The lavish service he rendered his guests shows Abraham’s willingness to serve God.

Chosen People
Thanks for the reply

Life is Good, may the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob bless you in His Holiness and protect you, and deliver you, in these tumultuous times. Praise the Lord for bring His People Israel back to His Chosen Place of His Righteousness, Judgement and Mercy in the world.

---

I understand that, it is teaching of “Sages, and Rabi’s” that these three men, are angles for the reasons you’ve stated.

But on the other hand, we trust the witness of Abraham. We trust that he saw a lamp and smoke of a furnace pass over the animals he, Abraham, divided. We trust that he was called by God to come to the land we now know as Israel and we trust all the other revelations that he Abraham received of the Lord his God. The why would we question his, Abraham’s acknowledgment that he, Abraham, was in the Presence of the Lord even if it was in the flesh, and what could stop the Lord from making His Presence known in the flesh, if He the Lord chose to do so?

 

[Mathetes2010]

1. 
   *](Exodus 33:20) – “But He [God] said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live !”
   …
   
   Unless in the OT they were seeing the Word of God before He became Incarnate otherwise there would be a major contradiction.

1. 
   In attempting to understand the Hebrew Scriptures, Christians should begin with the NT Greek Scriptures as a reference point. The NT points us to the intent of revelation and we should always begin with the premises it provides for us. Sometimes we are able to harmonize the passages and at other times it is beyond our abilities to do so. We should however lay down what God has revealed concerning this inquiry and reason from there:
   1. As noted above by Ecoclimber, the Father has not been seen in a certain sense.
   2. Yet, the Father has been seen in another sense (for example Acts 7:55, 56; Exodus 33:11; and other verses noted by twinc above).
   3. The Father spoke in varied ways in the past, however, it is only now that He sent His Son to reveal Himself:

   1In many parts, and many ways, God of old having spoken to the fathers in the prophets, 2in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages; 3who being the brightness of the glory, and the impress of His subsistence, bearing up also the all things by the saying of his might – through himself having made a cleansing of our sins, sat down at the right hand of the greatness in the highest, 4having become so much better than the messengers, as he did inherit a more excellent name than they (Hebrews 1:1-4).

   1. The Old Covenant was instituted by means of angels:

   53You who received the law as ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it (Acts 7:53; see also Galatians 3:19; Hebrews 2:2; Deuteronomy 33:1, 2).

   1. There is more than one person called Yahweh in Scripture:

   24and Jehovah hath rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah, from the heavens;

   This passage is interesting in that we are told that at the beginning of this story that three visitors first appeared (Genesis 18:2). Later, only two remained (Genesis 19:1). When the judgment against Sodom and the rest begins, it is implied in the above referenced verse that Yahweh that remained behind rained fire upon the cities from Yahweh that returned to heaven. This is further confirmed by Amos:
   

   10I have sent among you pestilence by the way of Egypt, I have slain by sword your choice ones, With your captive horses, And I cause the stink of your camps to come up – even into your nostrils, And ye have not turned back unto Me, An affirmation of Jehovah.

   11I have overturned among you, Like the overturn by God of Sodom and Gomorrah, And ye are as a brand delivered from a burning, And ye have not turned back unto Me, An affirmation of Jehovah (Amos 4:10, 11).

   This same concept of more than one person referred to with the Divine Name appears in the following verses (note that in most English versions the Divine Name appears as “LORD” as opposed to “Lord”):
   

   6Thus said Jehovah, king of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of Hosts: `I [am] the first, and I the last, And besides Me there is no God (Isaiah 44:6; see also Isaiah 48:16, 17; 61:1-8; Jeremiah 23:5, 6).

   8For thus said Jehovah of Hosts: After honour He hath sent me unto the nations who are spoiling you, For he who is coming against you, Is coming against the daughter of His eye. 9For lo, I am waving my hand against them, And they have been a spoil to their servants. And ye have known that Jehovah of Hosts hath sent me. 10Sing, and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, For lo, I am coming, and have dwelt in thy midst, An affirmation of Jehovah (Zechariah 2:8-10; see also Zechariah 10:12).

   In the OT, God speaks of Himself in plurality (Genesis 1:26; 3:33; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8). As in the OT, in the NT Lord and God are spoken of in a plural sense:
   

   18May the Lord give to him to find kindness from the Lord in that day; and how many things in Ephesus he did minister thou dost very well know (2 Timothy 1:18).

   5And the Lord direct your hearts to the love of God, and to the endurance of the Christ (2 Thessalonians 3:5).

   With these premises, we can move forward to obtaining a more proper understanding of the OT apparitions of the “Angel of the LORD”. I would venture to say that it was angels that appeared to the OT saints and that they carried the Word of God and hence were received as such (representing God). An example to this would be our view of Scripture. All orthodox Christians believe that the Bible is God’s inerrant words to mankind. Yet we know that the Scriptures were actually derived through the agency of man. At times we say “the prophet said this” when quoting the Bible and at other times we say “God said this” without hesitation. The reason is that we know that Scripture is at once both natural and supernatural, human and divine. Hence in the same way that we view the written Word, when angels of God spoke His verbal Word, it was received as coming directly from God Himself. Therefore, the expressions used for these messengers were at times as if directed to God and at other times as if speaking to angelic servants. In these past visits, God certainly provided hints of something that Jesus would later reveal concerning the Trinitarian nature of our Deity.

 

[chosen_people]

Then how do you explain this contradiction.

1. 
   *](Exodus 33:20) – “But He [God] said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live !”
   *](John 1:18) – “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”
   *](John 5:37) – “"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”
   *](John 6:46) - "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.”
   *] (1 Tim. 6:15-16) – “He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.”
   
   Unless in the OT they were seeing the Word of God before He became Incarnate otherwise there would be a major contradiction.

1. 
   I think it should be understood that when you quote Christian scriptures to bolster your interpretations of the Jewish scriptures it is tantamount, from a Jewish perspective, to quoting the Koran to interpret Christian scriptures. I can explain to you the meaning of Exodus 33:20 if you so wish, from a Jewish perspective. I can show and explain, if you so desire, again from a Jewish perspective, the many passages in the Jewish scriptures that show that the concept of God in human form or in a trinity of three human forms is in contradiction and an anathema to the Jewish scriptures.

 

[Mathetes2010]

In regards to this point,

1. The Old Covenant was instituted by means of angels

I failed to mention that Paul informs us in Hebrews:

2Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it (Hebrews 13:2).

This may be related to Genesis 18 & 19.

 

[Benadam]

Throughout the encounter with Abraham the three men are treated as one and act as one.

3 He said, “If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord, a] do not pass your servant by. 4 Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5 Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant.”
“Very well,” they answered, “do as you say.”

9 “Where is your wife Sarah?” they asked him.

10 Then the LORD c] said, “I will surely return to you about this time next year, and Sarah your wife will have a son.”

13 Then the LORD said to Abraham,

16 When the men got up to leave, they looked down toward Sodom, and Abraham walked along with them to see them on their way. 17 Then the LORD said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do? 18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him. 19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is right and just, so that the LORD will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.”

The above is written as if the Lord is talking to another person but the only other person there is Abtaham who obviously isn’t privy to the conversation. This seems to be an internal dialogue about Abraham between the three men that for some unexplained reason Abtaham cannot hear.

Throughout Ch 18 Abtaham see’s three but is treating them as one being with three bodies,

They speak in unison and the only time they are distinguished as seperate minds is when they are in dialogue with only themselves. In other words they are speaking and acting as one in relation tio Abraham but are distinguished only in relation to themselves.

22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the LORD.

There is alot of Trinitarian theology between the lines in this chapter.

This is contrasted by the first paragraph of Lot’s encounter with the Angels.

1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,”

It’s odd that the angels Lot encountered are introduced as ‘The’ angels

I believe it is a devise to connect them in some sense of being or mission to the three of Abraham. I believe this indicates a deeper intimacy with Abraham and hence a more profound revelation of the divine nature.

 

[GerardMajella]

So, who are each of the three men in Genesis 18?

The three angels appearing to Abraham were Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael:

“As is apparent from the rest of the narrative, they were actually angels “in the guise” of men. God sent three different angels because, by definition, an angel is a function that God wishes to have performed. Thus, each function is a new angel, and since there were three missions to be accomplished in connection with Abraham and Sarah at this time, there were three angels to carry them out. In the words of the Midrash, “one angel does not perform two missions.” In this case, the three angels were Michael, who informed Abraham that Sarah would have a son (v. 14); Gabriel, who overturned Sodom (19:25); and Raphael, who healed Abraham and saved Lot (Rashi as explained by Gur Aryeh). The last two tasks, healing Abraham and saving Lot, constituted a single mission because they were for the sake of rescue.” (Stone Edition of the Chumash, p. 79)

First, look to the Jewish Sages for clarification on obscure passages in the Old Testament. These can be found in their commentaries, and in the Talmud. Secondly, look to the commentaries of the Catholic Church if you are interested in understanding the symbolic and metaphorical aspects of the Old Testament as they relate to the Trinity, precursors to Christ, etc. And, if you are interested in a more mystical approach to the Old Testament, then look to the Zohar and kabbalistic Jewish writings.

 

[rcjones]

Throughout the encounter with Abraham the three men are treated as one and act as one.

3 He said, “If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord, a] do not pass your servant by. 4 Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5 Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant.”
“Very well,” they answered, “do as you say.”

9 “Where is your wife Sarah?” they asked him.

10 Then the LORD c] said, “I will surely return to you about this time next year, and Sarah your wife will have a son.”

13 Then the LORD said to Abraham,

The above is written as if the Lord is talking to another person but the only other person there is Abtaham who obviously isn’t privy to the conversation. This seems to be an internal dialogue about Abraham between the three men that for some unexplained reason Abtaham cannot hear.

Throughout Ch 18 Abtaham see’s three but is treating them as one being with three bodies,

They speak in unison and the only time they are distinguished as seperate minds is when they are in dialogue with only themselves. In other words they are speaking and acting as one in relation tio Abraham but are distinguished only in relation to themselves.

22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the LORD.

There is alot of Trinitarian theology between the lines in this chapter.

This is contrasted by the first paragraph of Lot’s encounter with the Angels.

1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,”

It’s odd that the angels Lot encountered are introduced as ‘The’ angels

I believe it is a devise to connect them in some sense of being or mission to the three of Abraham. I believe this indicates a deeper intimacy with Abraham and hence a more profound revelation of the divine nature.

Most excellent observations, Ben Adam.

Turn to the filioque for the answer to why there were two for Lot and three for Abraham.
Abraham was a friend of God, Lot saw the works of God. The Son and the Holy Ghost accomplish what the Father has ordained.

 

[Benadam]

Most excellent observations, Ben Adam.

Turn to the filioque for the answer to why there were two for Lot and three for Abraham.
Abraham was a friend of God, Lot saw the works of God. The Son and the Holy Ghost accomplish what the Father has ordained.

Thank you RC. I was thinking along those lines. I was reminded that Jesus said that Abraham had seen His Day and that only through the Father is the Son revealed. That Lot’s vision was limited to the works of God fits right in with the direction I was going. Thanks again.

 

[beehumble]

What always makes me wonder is Genesis seems to be clear that Abraham was speaking with God (perhaps Jesus and two angels?) especially because it says in Gen 18:1-3:
1

• The LORD appeared to Abraham by the terebinth of Mamre, as he sat in the entrance of his tent, while the day was growing hot.*
  2
• Looking up, he saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to greet them; and bowing to the ground,*
  3
  he said: "Sir, if I may ask you this favor, please do not go on past your servant.

He referred to himself as a servant, and he bowed down and was NOT REPRIMANDED FOR DOING SO ( because 'I too am a servant like you.")

Contrast this with Revelation 19:9-10
9
Then the **angel **said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who have been called to the wedding feast of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These words are true; they come from God.”
10
**I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t! I am a fellow servant **of yours and of your brothers who bear witness to Jesus. Worship God. Witness to Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

So in the 2nd case, the angel clearly says not to bow for I am a servant like you; bow only to God.

In the first case, it says the Lord appeared to Abraham, and when Abraham bowed he was NOT told to get up, and he refered to himself as the servant of the person standing before him, and was NOT told by the person before him that he too was a fellow servant. His being a servant of the one before him was allowed to stand, and his bowing down was allowed to stand, whereas the ANGEL in Rev did not allow bowing down.

Makes me wonder - it really seems as if it is Jesus and two angels.But then again, maybe not.

 

[GerardMajella]

Makes me wonder - it really seems as if it is Jesus and two angels.But then again, maybe not.

The three angels appearing to Abraham were Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael. See my explanation above in a prior post for a detailed explanation.

As someone mentioned earlier, you really need to study Jewish commentaries to understand the meaning of many of these obscure passages. Yes, you can read Catholic commentaries as well to understand the symbolism, metaphors, and allegories in the Old Testament as well. But to simply understand the basics: who, what, where, when, why, and how – Look to the Jewish Sages. They have dissected these obscure passages in numerous commentaries.

 

[rcjones]

The three angels appearing to Abraham were Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael. See my explanation above in a prior post for a detailed explanation.

As someone mentioned earlier, you really need to study Jewish commentaries to understand the meaning of many of these obscure passages. Yes, you can read Catholic commentaries as well to understand the symbolism, metaphors, and allegories in the Old Testament as well. But to simply understand the basics: who, what, where, when, why, and how – Look to the Jewish Sages. They have dissected these obscure passages in numerous commentaries.

Jewish sages will always miss what Jesus showed his disciples on the road to Emmaus, and what he showed them in the temple when he was twelve. You can be certain they will never tell you anything that would lead you to Christ. That is why they were still Jewish.

They have been taught that when they see the white rock they are not to say Water,Water. When they see Christ in the scriptures, they are not to call him the Torah in heaven and on earth.

So you can definitely trust the sages… to lead you astray.