Genesis of social justice

[athair_siochain]

You volunteer to hand over your wallet when a gun is pointed at your head, many contracts are no different than a loaded gun…

royal archer keep trying your best, your latest exuse for blind greed is pathetic, to swap one for another is not about sharing wealth,

ug gug who are they , if you do go back in time. then how about seeing a society of people who have plenty of food because God created a paradise, no one needed to share because there was plenty for everyone, it was only when a greedy lazy person decided he would get someone else to go out and collect his food, and when the collector refused the lazy person used force to take over the sources of food, so society then had to do what the self appointed owner said or starve to death, that owner had so much they needed security to stop society turning things around, the greedy parasites then charged a fee (rent) for the ground society used to build a home, people involved in greed are lazy parasites

Sharing was created out of greed, those with the most power get a BIG share of the cake, those with no power only receive the crumbs from the rich mans table,

 

[athair_siochain]

Hi, AthairSiochain,

Truly amazing…"…legalized theft"

But, who knows - maybe you’re right… tenants should not stop at the landlord but go straight to the top to get this matter resolved - yes, tenants should go to:

1.) federal government - get a reduction in the landlord’s taxes so that rents do not rise

2.) state government - to get a reduction in property and income taxes to rents are stable

3.) insurance companies - so that their rates remain constant and rents do not rise

4.) pest exterminators, repairmen and everyone else - stop going up on your rates so the landlord does not go up on his… so the tenant can keep stable rates.

Of course, you realize that whatever job you are working at will be be giving you a raise - because no one can ever increase what it now is charging so that tenants rates remain the same.

Now, if you want to LOWER your rent … just go back over this list and tell everyone to back off of their current ‘theft’ so that the landlord is not forced into this theivery from his tenants.

If you get success from these four enumerated groups - then I am sure you will get a LOWER rate. Why? Because with LOWER costs, people can afford to do more - and this is where competition takes over and you honestly will see rates go down!

God bless

Tom

Thanks Tom could not have said it better…, read over what you have written." is that not what I am saying,’,

you say

landlord taxes lower them to lower rents.

property taxes lower them to lower rents’’

insurance payments lower them to lower rents,

lower the cost of pest extermination and repairs to lower rents.

the tenant sure has a lot of people to support, while the greedy landlord enjoys a pleasurable lifestyle, AT THE END OF THE DAY THE LANDLORD WANTS MORE because higher rents mean a higher price for his investment when the tenant financed property is sold,

when you buy a pair of shoes or even a loaf of bread-- thousands of landlords could be getting a slice.

 

[athair_siochain]

Where, oh where, has individual responsibility and right judgment gone? Were these people horse whipped into signing on the bottom line? Where is the practice of virtues such as prudence and the management of one’s own affairs, both practical and spiritual?

You actually advocate that others should have to pay for the consequences of their neighbor’s bad decisions made entirely by the use of their own free will? I am amazed!

free will please explain, because today you may be able to walk in the park tomorrow that park may be private property, and you will be prosecuted if you try to walk in that park,

people are forced to rent or buy property , the landlord and moneylender controlled governments have laws in place to stop people living outside the system, you have to do as you are told,or else, landlords and moneylenders have total control

 

[athair_siochain]

Where, oh where, has individual responsibility and right judgment gone? Were these people horse whipped into signing on the bottom line? Where is the practice of virtues such as prudence and the management of one’s own affairs, both practical and spiritual?

You actually advocate that others should have to pay for the consequences of their neighbor’s bad decisions made entirely by the use of their own free will? I am amazed!

you deposit $100.000 in a bank recieve $3000. in interest

your deposit is then used as security to lend $1.000.000 plus?? bank makes $100.000 plus from the interest and fees… this shows the banks can print money to give to borrowers who then pay their mortgages with real money that was worked for. asking people who have been ripped of by banks to be prudent is a bit thin ,

 

[cdeterma]

you deposit $100.000 in a bank recieve $3000. in interest

your deposit is then used as security to lend $1.000.000 plus?? bank makes $100.000 plus from the interest and fees… this shows the banks can print money to give to borrowers who then pay their mortgages with real money that was worked for. asking people who have been ripped of by banks to be prudent is a bit thin ,

As a person who works in and studied finance I can tell you that you have the numbers completely skewed. On the off chance you’re right and I am wrong can you give me the name of the bank where you get 3000 in interest for 100 dollar deposit?

 

[royal_archer]

Landlords have rights to ask for a higher rent, " legalised theft’

Tenants do not have a LEGAL right to force landlords to lower the rent, again there HAS be a link with the fact—" the majority of politicians and lawyers are landlords or moneylenders," this has to be the worst activity created out of blind greed

As someone who bennefited from access to rental properties I was happy to have a cheep place to live. I couldn’t care how much the land lord made.

 

[royal_archer]

… it was only when a greedy lazy person decided he would get someone else to go out and collect his food, and when the collector refused the lazy person used force to take over the sources of food, …

Now you are starting to see it. we have many lazy people who will not do the work required to make their own food, or other resources, so they demand that the working class provide food and other resources to them and then take those resources by force if they feel so inclined. You need to start going after the freeloaders who insist that the government hand them everything so they don’t have to work for it.

 

[markbrumbaugh]

Man am I lost as to who is on first.

Here is the simple situation…you work, you earn, you purchase the fruits of others’ labor.
You don’t work, you don’t earn, you envy and cry social justice.

There are exceptions and they grow day by day through social justice.

 

[royal_archer]

free will please explain, because today you may be able to walk in the park tomorrow that park may be private property, and you will be prosecuted if you try to walk in that park,

people are forced to rent or buy property , the landlord and moneylender controlled governments have laws in place to stop people living outside the system, you have to do as you are told,or else, landlords and moneylenders have total control

And if you get a job and earn a few bucks, they will be glad to work with you to get what ever you are willing to work for.

 

[royal_archer]

As a person who works in and studied finance I can tell you that you have the numbers completely skewed. On the off chance you’re right and I am wrong can you give me the name of the bank where you get 3000 in interest for 100 dollar deposit?

Not everyone understands the difference between “.” and “,”

 

[royal_archer]

Man am I lost as to who is on first.

Here is the simple situation…you work, you earn, you purchase the fruits of others’ labor.
You don’t work, you don’t earn, you envy and cry social justice.

There are exceptions and they grow day by day through social justice.

Agreed!
And if you can’t work, you are polite to those who do and they take care of you.

 

[Tom_Qualey]

Hi, AthairSiochain,

Thanks Tom could not have said it better…, read over what you have written." is that not what I am saying,’,

you say

landlord taxes lower them to lower rents.

property taxes lower them to lower rents’’

insurance payments lower them to lower rents,

lower the cost of pest extermination and repairs to lower rents.

the tenant sure has a lot of people to support, while the greedy landlord enjoys a pleasurable lifestyle, AT THE END OF THE DAY THE LANDLORD WANTS MORE because higher rents mean a higher price for his investment when the tenant financed property is sold,

when you buy a pair of shoes or even a loaf of bread-- thousands of landlords could be getting a slice.

Now, do not confuse two different things - there really is a multiplier effect to money, AthairSiochain - money does not sit still (like gold) it is constantly changing hands - and people are able to do various things in no small measure to the velocity in which money moves through an economy.The landlord not only needs shoes but also eats bread - the economy that works is well integrated.

God bless

Tom

 

[athair_siochain]

Hi, AthairSiochain,

Does this mean that you and your landlord are getting along? If not, I am still waiting for a response.

Tom

I dont have a landlord. and I have never paid interest, other than when I buy something, to eat . ware or use the majority of goods and services have a built in amount that could be supporting 1000s of landlords / moneylenders why should small business have to pay more than half they earn to a greedy landlord/moneylender, the business person has to pass on the cost to the purchaser

 

[athair_siochain]

Hi, AthairSiochain,

yes but the landlord uses other peoples earnings to support his pleasurable lifestyle,

follow a seed of wheat from the farm through production all the way to the supermarket shelf, I have done that just to see how many landlords and moneylenders were getting their slice, it is mind boggling

 

[athair_siochain]

you deposit $100.000 in a bank recieve $3000. in interest

your deposit is then used as security to lend $1.000.000 plus?? bank makes $100.000 plus from the interest and fees… this shows the banks can print money to give to borrowers who then pay their mortgages with real money that was worked for. asking people who have been ripped of by banks to be prudent is a bit thin ,

please take note… $100.000 @ 3% interest equals $3000. you say you have worked in finance, then you should know how the economy is manipulated by greed, you have to point the finger at the unemployed , you dont want them to have anything to live on, explain why we need to have equity accruing on property

 

[Tom_Qualey]

Hi, AthairSiochain,

Your myopia and fixation on greed has become truly tedious… but, besides that - it is totally missing the point. This is not a perfect world - and your fixation on ‘greedy landlords’ as the cause of the problem is simply wrong.

yes but the landlord uses other peoples earnings to support his pleasurable lifestyle,

Everyone uses the earnings of every one else in some way to make a living. That means YOU are using the earings of others - and there is probably someone out there who things YOU are greedy and living in a opulant life style! Imagine… YOU, too! I am not shocked … and, hopefully, you will take another look at how YOU make a living and see your own view of the hand of greed guiding your actions!

follow a seed of wheat from the farm through production all the way to the supermarket shelf, I have done that just to see how many landlords and moneylenders were getting their slice, it is mind boggling

What would really be ‘mind boggling’ would be to try and follow this seed and see what would happen if no one make any finacial contribution to the process - in an effort to avoid your view of greed. Well, I think that the seed of what may germinate … grow … and then wither away. No one picked it, processed it, ground it into flour, baked it or bought any bread. Yep - that would take care of greed at every level! Of course people would have nothing to eat and that would be a problem. But, their certainly would not die of greed.

Please try to look at the entire process. If you make a contribution to the economy then you should reap a reward. Even those who do not make contributions are helped in most of the economies of the world in some way. Most people do not starve because they do not work. There are trade offs that exist everywhere - and being able to balance off what is important with what is incidental is critical. Living like Dives is punished by God while Lazarus was rewarded - not because he was poor, covered with sores or starved to death - but, because he believed in God.

God bless

Tom

 

[sedonaman]

When the Church teaches, it is speaking to the whole world, not just the U.S., so one must keep that in mind.

For there to be social justice, there must be a free market with private property and a way for individuals to acquire legal title to property easily. Countries masquerading as capitalist are oligarchies and will never be prosperous because of a lack of a way for the individual not only to acquire legal title to property but to convert it to capital, according to The Mystery of Capital: Why Capitalism Triumphs in the West and Fails Everywhere Else, by Peruvian economist Hernando De Soto.

Specifically, the author argues that, while anyone in these countries can theoretically acquire property, because of the “red tape,” only a few, the insiders, can do it legally and in a reasonable amount of time. As an example, he tested the “red tape” of the administration system in his native Lima, Peru by applying for a permit to set up a two-sewing machine garment factory in a Lima shantytown. “Timing the process revealed it took more than 300 days, working six hours a day, plus 32 times the monthly minimum wage.”

He performed a similar experiment to find out what it took for a person (squatter) living in an extralegal housing settlement “whose permanence the government had already acknowledged, to acquire legal title to a home: To receive approval from only the municipality of Lima – just one of the eleven agencies involved – took 728 bureaucratic steps.” (Emphasis added)

These oligarchies purposely keep out those who are not part of the ruling class in order to prevent competition.

Contrast this situation with that of the U.S. where almost anyone can get a loan in a short period of time. Considering this with the Church’s teachings as they apply to the whole world, the conclusion is that the U.S. is not doing all that bad when it comes to economic social justice. They certainly don’t justify overturning the whole system for socialism.

However, says Lee Harris, “the revolutionary socialist’s life is transformed because he accepts the myth that one day socialism will triumph, and justice for all will prevail.” Thus there is “an…analogy between religion and the revolutionary Socialism which aims at the apprenticeship, preparation, and even the reconstruction of the individual – a gigantic task.” … “It may well be that socialism isn’t dead because socialism cannot die. Who doesn’t want to see the wicked and the arrogant put in their place? Who among the downtrodden and the dispossessed can fail to be stirred by the promise of a world in which all men are equal, and each has what he needs?”

 

[athair_siochain]

Hi, AthairSiochain,

It is hard to believe how many MIS-applications of how our ecomic system actually works you have developed into a major line of thinking. Quoting Luke 23:34 is really an outrageous misapplication of scriptural content and intent!

Maybe you know of a country that has actually embraced the concepts you are advocating? I am confident there is some country out there that has seen the wisdom of these ideas and has actually implemented them. Maybe it is just my age creeping up on me…but, I really can’t think of any right now. Please tell me - what country would you use as a model for this economic system?

God bless

Tom

Luke 23:24 is important to me, and the last words of Christ on the cross have a message for all of us, Christ was thinking about each and everyone of us, not just those people who chose Barabas, I think of Christs words when I hear landlords/moneylenders defending their blind greed I think of Christs words when I hear of a Doctor butchering a unborn child.

15 yrs ago I set out to investigate greed and hatred—. because someone told me it was human nature, all part of life,
I read every religious/political book I could get my hands on-- and several versions of the Bible during this time I would take notes for future reference.
One day everything clicked I had found the Achilles heal ,the cause of all the greed and hatred in our world. " landlords and moneylenders" I went back through all my notes I could not believe how these two of a kind activities of collecting rent and interest were so bad, then I realised it was the landlords and moneylenders who put Christ on trial, they accused him, they spat at him, and they chose a criminal called Barabbas.

I now had to investigate the financial system. stocks shares.investments, economics, I had a different set of eyes that would see things differently, I set up scenarios to study. like what would the world be like if there was only one monetary system, for a start there would be no dealing in money. no manipulation of the markets by the landlords and moneylenders. in short I found we had to rid the world of landlords and moneylenders activities if we were to rid the world of greed and hatred, we must not blame them because they were blinded by greed,

Politics and most Religions accommodated the collecting of rent and interest because most of their leaders were landlords and moneylenders, I do not hate these people. I just want to end the greed and hatred in our world, to do this you have to delete the root cause. also remembering the last words of Christ – you cant blame someone who believes they have done no wrong.-- to forgive someone you first have to blame them does that make sense…

 

[Tom_Qualey]

Hi, AthairSiochain,

In my opinion, this is truly a quixotic adventure you are on… Let me explain… but, it will take me two posts to do it… that 6,000 character limit got me… . Part 1 of 2

Luke 23:24 is important to me, and the last words of Christ on the cross have a message for all of us, Christ was thinking about each and everyone of us, not just those people who chose Barabas,

No doubt about it, Christ’s words are most important - it is the context you have tried to force them to fit into that I was objecting to. AthairSiochain…

I think of Christs words when I hear landlords/moneylenders defending their blind greed I think of Christs words when I hear of a Doctor butchering a unborn child.

There really is blind greed - right here and right now (just look at the US Senate nailing Goldman’s Imvestment Bankers who were laughing at the money they were making while their clients were losing their shirts! But, to characterize the entire system in this light is simply wrong. The Titanic sunk for a lot of reasons - but the Captain ordering 22 knots in a ice field so he could break some record was just plain stupid - and many died! But, there are both safe ships and safe captains out there today. Do not throw the baby out with the bath water…applies here, too!

15 yrs ago I set out to investigate greed and hatred—. because someone told me it was human nature, all part of life,
I read every religious/political book I could get my hands on-- and several versions of the Bible during this time I would take notes for future reference.
One day everything clicked I had found the Achilles heal ,the cause of all the greed and hatred in our world. " landlords and moneylenders" I went back through all my notes I could not believe how these two of a kind activities of collecting rent and interest were so bad, then I realised it was the landlords and moneylenders who put Christ on trial, they accused him, they spat at him, and they chose a criminal called Barabbas.

AthairSiochain there is no ‘Achilles HEEL’ here… you are really barking up the wrong tree - in a whole forest of evil! Now, with all of your studies, did you happen to come across the 25th Chapter of Matthew? There are two interesting stories in there that no only do not condemn merchants - but, actually works with the then current system. In brief: the five foolish virgins had to go out and BUY oil for their lamps because they had none. Both the wise and foolish virgins apparently knew of the oil merchants - once the wise ones told the foolish ones - the foolish left and then finally came back with the oil. The three servants is an even more telling story - look at the criticism given to the “…lazy and worthless…” servant - who did not EVEN put his Master’s money with the bank where INTEREST could be earned. And, do not forget what happened to that single talent - it went to the servant with the most talents!!! It could be that Master saw how this wise servant would use the wealth to benefit others - while this 3rd servant was just not going to produce anything worthwhile.

I now had to investigate the financial system. stocks shares.investments, economics, I had a different set of eyes that would see things differently, I set up scenarios to study. like what would the world be like if there was only one monetary system, for a start there would be no dealing in money. no manipulation of the markets by the landlords and moneylenders. STOP RIGHT THERE… this was either the briefest of studies or one of the shallowest! Just what do you think these people are living on… or are living in? Even a barter system needs goods and services recognized by both parties and some way of finding an equal value must be set up.

God bless

Tom

.

 

[Tom_Qualey]

Hi, AthairSiochain,

In my opinion, this is truly a quixotic adventure you are on… Let me explain… but, it will take me two posts to do it… that 6,000 character limit got me… . Part 2 of 2

in short I found we had to rid the world of landlords and moneylenders activities if we were to rid the world of greed and hatred, we must not blame them because they were blinded by greed, This is just too much like fantasy, AthairSiochain, because just how are you going “…rid the world…” of them? Lenin had his own ideas … and when he died and was replaced by Stalin - he had his own ideas, too. Look what happened - no only were millions executed, but millions starved under this system they worked. I certainly hope “…getting rid…” of this group has some meaning other then the Lenin-Stalin approach. If it does - pray, tell!

Politics and most Religions accommodated the collecting of rent and interest because most of their leaders were landlords and moneylenders, I do not hate these people.(You certainly had me fooled, AthairSiochain!!!)

I just want to end the greed and hatred in our world, to do this you have to delete the root cause. In case you missed it, AthairSiochain, the root cause is SIN - greed and hatred are only ways that sin expresses itself through the Devil. Christ, Our Lord and Savior will banish Evil and all of the ways it expresses itself. Our role is to cooperate with His Grace and live a life closely following Christ and the Chruch He founded (and, that would be the Catholic Church).

also remembering the last words of Christ – you cant blame someone who believes they have done no wrong.-- to forgive someone you first have to blame them does that make sense…

I can’t believe you messed this up, too! Go back to Matthew 25 and re-read it. The five foolish virgins did not think they had done anything wrong. If anyone would have asked, they would have said they were good girls. Yet, look what happened to them! The 3rd servant took the easy way out because he was lazy - but, he too did not think he was doing anything wrong. Yet, look what happened to him. Now, if you claim to be quoting Christ as how you got this idea - give the reference.

God bless

Tom .